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Topic:
The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 12/11 - disc. Jabba)
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Corran_Fett
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
8/24/07 4:14am
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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Has anyone here seen the BBC series Life on Mars? DCI Gene Hunt and his department (save for Sam Tyler, of course) make a perfect bunch of hard-boiled Is (without the "P" in "PI"...^^  ), especially when it comes to the "aggressive interrogations", hehehe...
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The other side of the NJO, featuring Mandalorians, Vong, and Peace Brigaders in a thrillride full of betrayal and intrigue... When Few Stood Against Many | http://boards.theforce.net/b/b10477/25253415/ - http://corranfett.deviantart.com -
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Luton_Plunder
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
8/28/07 6:06pm
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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Ah, just to clarify re: heroism.
Usually a main character are morally upright. Men of honour in a den of thieves, as they say. They'll be fighting against corrupt cops to claim a lover, or clear their name, or catch the man that ruined their life, or solve a muder, or something. There are many exceptions though, granted. Double Indemnity is probably one. But in all of the works that Phillip Marlowe is features, he is a morally upright man. He commits some devious acts to get his job done, but he certainly has the moral high ground.
I guess 'the greater good' comes into it. A lead character can commit heinous acts of violence and as long as it was done for the greater good I'll still consider them heroic. Ed Exley is definitely heroic IMO. So my definition of heroic is set at a very low standard for hard-boiled types 
(Anyone ever played the computer game Max Payne? There's a hard boiled guy if ever I saw one.)
So, bundle this into the GFFA. I've mentioned before that in all of Profic, there isn't anything like this. Every character - bounty hunters, detectives, what have you - in profic will always be ostensibly aligned with good or evil. Jabba: Evil. Karrde: Good. Niles Ferrier: Evil. Booster Terrik: Good. This is where hardboiled fanfic (and seedy fics in general) are spectacular, because they dont have to worry about picking sides in a galactic war. In fact if they stayed true to form, they would take another sip of Corellian Whiskey and ignore galactic politics 
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correllian_ale
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
8/28/07 6:49pm
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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I think the best example I've seen is outside the GFFA (sorry folks). Vick Mackey on the t.v. show The Shield. Fans tend to approve of his evil ways because he is doing good - despite the heinous acts he's commited - but in the end they hope he is able to redeem himself, which is really what he's fighting for.
*thread hijacking over*
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Consider this my "throw back" jersey...  I govern my life around my own personal code of ethics, and I suggest that you do the same.
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Luton_Plunder
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
8/30/07 4:54pm
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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Heheh, I think we're all big fans of extra-GFFA examples here Ale  And though I've never seen the shield, it sounds like exactly the kind of thing I imagine from a hard boiled cop. Sometimes, the bad guy really doesn't deserve to live 
Generally speaking I love it when good guys go bad
(P.S - I owe the Devine Miss L a bunch of coveted LP Points™* for her awesome rhyming skyllz earlier Take a grand 20 of them, MsLanna )
*Points only redeemable in a galaxy far, far away. They expired a long time ago.
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correllian_ale
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
8/30/07 5:00pm
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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Luton_Plunder posted:
*Points only redeemable in a galaxy far, far away. They expired a long time ago.
I've got seven, na d I found out they were only good for a beer cozy that reads: "Vader is NOT my dady"
(yes folks, daddy was mispelled and everything)
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Consider this my "throw back" jersey... I govern my life around my own personal code of ethics, and I suggest that you do the same.
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Onoto
Title: Risk Host
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
8/30/07 8:35pm
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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Luton_Plunder posted:
(P.S - I owe the Devine Miss L a bunch of coveted LP Points™* for her awesome rhyming skyllz earlier Take a grand 20 of them, MsLanna )
*Points only redeemable in a galaxy far, far away. They expired a long time ago.
I guess 'split like a banana' wasn't as poetic as I thought.
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http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=29007905&brd=10264&replies=0 - I am currently hosting the C&G version of the classic wargame Risk. Stop by and see what's going on!
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MsLanna
Title: CR GSFF Central
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/31/07 12:43am
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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I got LP Points™!
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Padawan owned by Corellian_Ale Master of CloneCaptainRex. Proud FanFic Master of Darth_Sathanos Why so serious?  October 3rd - Ghent Day in the WNU!
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Katana_Geldar
Title: Former CR Tasmania, AU
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
9/2/07 6:01pm
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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Forget cliche's, that was a duymb idea anyway.
I've been doing a little reading prior to my second hardboiled fic and I've come up with a little list that defines the hardboiled story.
Hardboiled, as has already been said, is rough and gritty. The detective (be it polic or non-polic) is usually a flawed character, who may or may not drink/smoke/use drugs etc. He isn't evil, he isn't necessarily good either. Kinda like Cade Skywalker in Legacy
Hardboiled usually involves the underworld of society (the seedy side ). Bars, backrooms to exchange information, slums and occiasionally brothels. Character like hitmen, informers, prostitutes, dealers (weapons and drugs) and black marketeers.
Hardboiled is usually violent, but only occassionaly bloody and horrific. What I found about hardboiled that the threat of violence (such as a gun pointed at a vital part of the anatomy) works much better than the actual violence.
Hardboiled is quite similar to it's cousin Noir fiction but Noir is usually a bit more seedy.
There are also things that aren't hardboiled:
Crime Scene Investigation and forensics. To some extent tghese cnan be included, but remember they were invented pretty much after the hardboiled was in it's prime. Include them if you must, but they can't form the crux of cracking the mystery.
Going undercover. Again, if you must, but this isn't really hardboiled. More a spy story or police drama. This can also include following a car through a tracing system or putting a wire/tracer on a person/object when they go into a hostile area.
And I'm a little iffy about Jedi, as most Jedi have rather altruistic outlook, though there are exceptions. And of course, Obi-Wan does a detective-style investigation in AOTC.
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Luton_Plunder
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
9/21/07 7:50am
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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*Zaps two wires together* UP thread! UP, damn you!
Nice list Katana_Geldar - though I think I might have to challenge one thing there. Your point about going undercover I get - it's more for the police procedural drama and such. But there are plenty of examples of hardboiled cops that go undercover or infiltrate a group to play both sides against the other.
Most recent example - I just watched the modern revamped highscool noir/drama/comedy/detective story 'Brick'. The lead character ingratiates himself with the primary bad guy, who in turn has a rivalry with his own second in command. He winds up embroiled in murder and drug trafficking and eventually winds up resolving the issue by playing both sides into an inescapable confrontation. I think alot of loner hardboiled cops wind up taking this route - going undercover into the bad guy's gang but working for themselves the whole time.
I have another thing to add, too. On the subject of violence, your hardboiled cop will often take alot of damage. By the end of the story he's often covered in bandages/limping/spluttering, whatever. Being knocked unconscious seems to pop up often. But it's the hallmark of a hardboiled cop that he'll only just win his fights by the skin of his teeth. And that's if he wins at all.
Or so my observational skills provide at this late hour
PS - Goooo Seedy Side
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MsLanna
Title: CR GSFF Central
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
10/19/07 5:35am
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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Luton_Plunder posted:
MsLanna posted:
I thought about the betrayal. In an upcoming fic the protagonist gets hired and then changes sides just for the credits of it. (Come on, double of what you get for letting that be and do the other??? money_eyes ) It's not her fault that the new mission is the termination of the old employer. But the only thing she really thinks about is how to get both jobs done and getting paid twice.... money_eyes idea money_eyes
This sounds like the very essence of Seedy-Sidery Let us know when we are able to get our eyes on it!
(I was going to edit out the way the smileys translate using copy and paste, but for some reason I think they make a kind of poetical sense there )
So I started it. And it has the very fitting title: ... and Loyalty
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Padawan owned by Corellian_Ale Master of CloneCaptainRex. Proud FanFic Master of Darth_Sathanos Why so serious? October 3rd - Ghent Day in the WNU!
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Luton_Plunder
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
10/19/07 7:32pm
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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Woo! On my way, MsL
Its been a while since I've read a story of unscrupulous scoundrels.
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brodiew
Registered:
Oct '05
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Date Posted:
11/7/07 10:55am
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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Since there has been no new challenge in this thread since April, I suggest SeedySider or LutonPlunder or someone post a new one.
I'm interested in trying something new.
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The_Face
Title: Fan Fic Manager, now with more real butter flavor
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
11/7/07 1:09pm
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 8/22 - disc. Hard-boiled fic)
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I know.  I think we could use a new topic too. I'll put something together...
Oh, and remember: the PM boxes of both SeedySider and myself are always open for challenge or discussion ideas! 
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SeedySider
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
11/7/07 3:59pm
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 11/7 - New Topic! New Challenge!)
- Date Edited:
11/8/07 2:56pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
SeedySider
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Twenty-Third (I think) Update
Starting off with new fics! Read them. Reply to them. Love them.
We start out welcoming Onoto to the Seedy Side index with a good and illegal response to a challenge at the esteemed Essential Guide to OCs…
The Gringlow Job
Timeline: Prequel Trilogy
Genre: Challenge, Heist
Main Characters: OCs
Summary: Two criminals plan to rob the most secure bank on Nar Shaddaa, but it's impossible to account for everything.
Status: Complete
Our next fic, featuring the oft-overlooked bounty huntress Aurra Sing, is from another author we haven’t had in the index yet, nate_the_great:
Broken Chains
Timeline: near ANH
Genre: General, horror
Main characters: Aurra Sing, OCs
Summary: The former Jedi known as Aurra Sing is given a little back story in Broken Chains.
Status: In progress
The TSS index is also proud to now hold a story from RX_Sith! It’s got Seedy right in the title. Really.
Seedy Horrors
Timeline: During the Yuuzhan Vong invasion of Coruscant
Genre: Challenge Fic
Main characters: OCs
Summary: A group of characters have to survive in the perilous regions of Coruscant during the Yuuzhan Vong Invasion.
Status: Complete
Our next author is no stranger to the Seedy Side – why yes it’s Luton_Plunder, with the latest episode of CorSec officers and the wonderful scum and villainy they fight.
The User 1.3 Metalegacies
Timeline: About 2 years before ANH
Genre: Action/Adventure
Main characters: OCs
Summary: Detective Tadgh Maitland and his brother Taban investigate a remote planet that may conceal secrets from their past. Meanwhile, Detective Jeanice Keyston investigates the resurgence of a xenophobic gang.
Status: In Progress
And last, but far from least, is another author we’ve featured before, MsLanna, with not one, not two, but three fics featuring Jango Fett and an ice-cold assassin.
1. Strictly Business
Timeline: about 34 BBY
Genre: Action?
Main characters: Leila Durmon, Jango Fett
Summary: Leila Durmon, assassin specialises on unarmed murder, is hired to rescue the Daughter of Lord Graden. But he misapplied some details of the mission, starting with her having to cooperate with Jango Fett.
Status: Complete
2. Misconception
Timeline: about 34 BBY
Genre: General
Main characters: Leila Durmon, Jango Fett
Summary: Leila Durmon is stuck on a backwater planet with no way out, when suddenly an opportunity opens up.
Status: Complete
3. …And Loyalty
Timeline: about 34 BBY
Genre: General, action
Main characters: Leila Durmon, Jango Fett
Summary: Leila Durmon is hired to kill Jango Fett.
Status: In Progress
I asked for ideas and I got them – fast! This challenge prompt comes to you from brodiew:
"I Am Changing the Deal"
Write about an underworld deal that goes south. This could be arms, drugs, information, anything you want (within TOS ). Just make it seedy, and make it all go wrong. 
And this topic of discussion is brought to you by Luton_Plunder…
"Beneath this Rough Exterior..."
…Is there a heart of gold in that scoundrel? A diamond buried in that rough? A metaphor in that cliché? Or is the seedy-sider’s heart nothing but tarnish and pyrite?
This is the time to discuss giving your tough guy (or girl, or droid) a system of values that runs deeper than their lust for credits. How good do you make your Seedy Side character(s)? Or are they really just a moral vacuum?
I think that should be enough to get some discussion started. Thanks again to LP and brodie for their help, and to all the authors allowing me to add their stories!
-SeedySider
EDIT: Markup codes are kicking my butt up and down the street today
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Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow. - T. S. Eliot
***
Give in to the Gray Side ->http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=22717892&brd=10304
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Luton_Plunder
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
11/7/07 6:37pm
Subject:
RE: The Seedy Side V. 2.0 (An Underworld Index/Discussion Thread - 11/7 - New Topic! New Challenge!)
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Wow, that was speedy Face! I declare you the fastest gun in the west. This gun obviously shoots some brand of index update, naturally. And on the topic, this update was massive  kudos to your taming of the markup codes.
A great prompt from Brod for the challenge! I can't wait to sink my teeth into that one
And hmm, now I'm actually going to have to think about the discussion topic  I will be back. And in greater numbers.
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