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Author Topic: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
Jaya Solo  6465 posts
Registered: Jul '99
46242_TFN Turns "10"
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:10pm Subject: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction - Date Edited: 9/20/06 10:01am (1 edits total) Edited By: Jaya Solo
As many of your know, Uncle George is nice enough to let us play with his toys and his universe by letting us take his creation and write our own stories using his characters, creatures, ships, and settings. He has thus far tolerated fan fiction, and for that I am grateful.

Thus far, in the Star Wars fandom, it is acceptable to write fan fiction and make it available to others via means of websites but it is not acceptable to make a profit off of this fan fiction. Anyone that does is liable to being sued.

That being said, someone has gone and published her own fan fiction and has made it available for purchase in the form of a book. Why someone would chose to publish her own piece of Star Wars Fan Fiction and sell it on Amazon.com is beyond all comprehension for me. plain From other sites I have learned that she has published this work of fiction already in pdf form on her website and it’s available for download.

This artist crossed the line when she put her book up for sale on amazon.com, and I fear the repercussions that it might have for fan fiction. Lucas has allowed us to write our own stories using his original material, but at any moment he could decide that he no longer likes this option because it tarnishes or waters down his creation. (Anne Rice has done this already; she won’t allow fan fiction to be written involving her characters.)

Frankly, this worries me because Lucas could decide that because of the action of one person, he won’t allow fan fiction at all. I would hate to see that happen.



As for discussion on this topic, please only rant a little about the actions of this woman. Let’s keep the discussion to what is acceptable and what is not in regards to copyright. Are there any means that we fan fiction writers need to employ to help us avoid being shut down?

 

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Luna_Nightshade  2984 posts
Registered: Jan '06
48762_Padme (630092)
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:19pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction - Date Edited: 4/22/06 4:24pm (3 edits total) Edited By: Luna_Nightshade
That... is terrifying. plain

That is incredibly... idiotic of her, to be perfectly honest.

plain

Perhaps we should all be required, before posting a work of fiction (however we would do that) to agree that this fiction will not be sold? Perhaps like a licensing agreement type thing that you are required to click "I agree" to prior to starting a new topic?

EDIT: Did this lady manage to get a publisher, or did she self-publish?

EDIT 2: Well, she does have a publisher. Worldteach or something like that. How did they not... notice this?

EDIT 3: Well... never mind. Back to the idiotic idea.

Do others think that the fact that we use screennames instead of our own names helps our cause, so to speak?

 

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Zonoma  4992 posts
Registered: Jun '05
7280_Dagobah
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:21pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction - Date Edited: 4/22/06 4:22pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Zonoma
I am glad to see this up and running, Jaya. My hat's off to you.

While I don't think one incident like this is enough to prompy GL to kick us out of his sand box, I would hate to see repeats of this incident.

I mean, really, Turn the BRAIN ON FIRST, PLEASE.


EDIT: Luna, she actually owns the company that published.

 

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Jaya Solo  6465 posts
Registered: Jul '99
46242_TFN Turns "10"
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:23pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
I know a lot of people put disclaimers in their fics (I kinda forget to angel ), but I know that really won't stop anyone from being sued.

Besides... I think that if you do publish it in any shape or form before it becomes a book then you lose "first publication" right or something like that. Why would people pay for it when you can get it for free?


(And I think the website has been shut down, probably from people bombarding it by clicking onto it.)

 

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Inara  2121 posts
Registered: Aug '05
19663_Plo Koon
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:29pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction - Date Edited: 4/22/06 4:46pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Inara
What baffled me was that this woman runs her own publishing company
Wordtech Communications, which has now been taken down. She clearly should (and does) know better, yet in an interview, she seemed confident that GL wouldn't care.

I couldn't believe that was for real at first. doh!

 

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Eleventh_Guard  5861 posts
Registered: Dec '05
23769_Royal Guard
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:30pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
Although it technically doesn't mean anything, I keep a fairly detailed disclaimer on my fanworks that states upfront what I'm doing and what is and is not intended. I'll copy the one from my personal website here:

Eleventh_Guard on her homepage posted:

Disclaimer: I don't own Star Wars. George Lucas is the original creator of Star Wars, and no copyright infringement is intended by any of these stories. I make no money from them and offer them here, for entertainment only, at absolutely no charge. All canon characters were created by George Lucas or a commercially published author of official Star Wars material. All "original" characters were created by me within the universe already provided and I don't own them except where they are not dependent upon the Star Wars universe. However, the plots and entanglements these characters are placed in are, to a varying extent, my own work, and may or may not resemble the original creators' vision(s).


A shorter version goes on the fics themselves. I don't know whether or not that's the best disclaimer or not, but it has a few purposes. First, it gives credit to Lucas and novelists (too many to list in the disclaimer; I write a lot of EU fics) and states that I know the universe isn't mine, and that I'm not trying to take credit for it. The part stating that they stories are offered at no charge is straightforward; one of the easiest ways to attract legal action is to solicit money for someone else's work and I say upfront that I'm not receiving any funds at all. Then I disclaim even my original characters except insofar as they could be put into original fiction; my Sith Lords still aren't completely mine, for instance, because they're based on Lucas's universe. Last, I say that the plots are partly mine, and in other words, they don't necessarily reflect the opinions of the creator(s). That's important because I occasionally write adult fiction and/or pairings that would never make it into canon, written for a niche readership, and those are not implied to be part of the source material.

 

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Kidan  5509 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
 Registered: Jul '03
13746_Galactic Senate
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:42pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
luna - no, using the screen names does nothing, because both the web server and probably the board software logs the IP address which is associated with the screen name, from that, it's easily backtracked to your internet connection.


Let us be perfectly honest here. Me. Lucas by ignoring fan fiction has allowed the thought that people can publish materials based upon his work (which in effect is what we're doing). That has become a LEGAL precedent, which is probably what she will argue.



Secondly, if anyone has read parts of that story (amazon allows u to read the first few pages) she is not that good of a writer....


eleventh-guard- ultimatley it doesn't mean a thing, besides letting the readers know certain facts. Disclaimer or not, it's still copyright violation, and is no way included under the 'fair use' clause of the relevant laws (this is all US im talking btw). It's more of a matter that Mr. Lucas allows and encourages fan participation.

 

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DARTH_MU  2444 posts
Registered: Feb '05
23997_Anakin
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:45pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
I am not, and have never been a member of the fanfiction publishing party.

 

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Healer_Leona  36857 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
 Registered: Jul '00
8059_Qui-Gon Jinn
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:51pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
It was pretty amazing in general that someone would consider to publish and try to sell their fanfic and then try to claim they meant if only for friends and family.

We shouldn't have anything to worry about. I know even her listing TF.N as a resource hsouldn't give us anything to be concerned with.

I would so miss the wonderful stories here. hugs hugs

 

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Jaya Solo  6465 posts
Registered: Jul '99
46242_TFN Turns "10"
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:53pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
Mu, by posting your stuff here, you are in fact "publishing" it. Kidan has some very good points; those disclaimers really don't do much legally. We could still get our butts sued off. And your comment about the precedent set by allowing fan fiction to continue is a good point. But fan fiction was around long before the internet in fanzines and so on.

I still think out right publishing it in novel form and selling it is something slightly different and more likely to get a person sued.

 

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DARTH_MU  2444 posts
Registered: Feb '05
23997_Anakin
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:56pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
For the sake of discussion, what about this situation.
Someone who owns a publishing firm and or knows a friend who owns one.
Then he/she writes a fanfiction in whatever universe and either bind the work or have their friends bind it for them.
After which he/she orders X amount of copies and distributes them to family and friends.
After which their friends and family donates them to the salvation army store in the book section or whatever.
Then the charity bookstore sells the work for 50 cents to 3 dollars.
Is that copyright infringement?

 

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Luna_Nightshade  2984 posts
Registered: Jan '06
48762_Padme (630092)
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:58pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
If we have been here for as long as it seems we have, and Lucas has not raised a peep... I don't think the stupidity of one woman will be sufficient to make him change his mind. He has always seemed to be very open-minded to the use of his work among his fans, with fan movies and so forth... just as long as we don't profit from it.

I think, and hope, that he will deal with her indiscretion separately and accordingly, and leave us alone as we have so far caused him no trouble.

At least... I hope.

 

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DARTH_MU  2444 posts
Registered: Feb '05
23997_Anakin
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:58pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
I'm scared...

 

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Noelie  3380 posts
Registered: Jul '05
44103_Qui-Gon Jinn
Date Posted: 4/22/06 4:59pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
I honestly can't imagine why someone would do what she did.

Does she have no newspapers or TV's near her to understand how easy it is to be sued over copyright issues?

It is good of Mr Lucas to let us do this. He could demand we stop. It would be well within his rights.

 

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Star_Angel  4775 posts
Registered: Jan '06
6161_Padme
Date Posted: 4/22/06 5:08pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction - Date Edited: 4/22/06 5:14pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Star_Angel
My god, my stomach is like a knot right now, how could someone do that angry .

God, reading about people that dose this makes me so angry. I mean, I mean...I don’t know what I mean, but I hate it when one person destroys it for the rest of us.

I hope that she...well, I’m not going to go into details on what I hope.


Jaya Solo wrote:

Why would people pay for it when you can get it for free?

You’re right about that, why would anyone pay for something that is so insulting toward a person (George Lucas) who have spend, I don’t know how long, working on this amazing movie epics for us, is and always will be beyond me. It makes me want to cry sad cry

Luna_Nightshade wrote:

Perhaps we should all be required, before posting a work of fiction (however we would do that) to agree that this fiction will not be sold? Perhaps like a licensing agreement type thing that you are required to click "I agree" to prior to starting a new topic?

That...that might actually be a good idea.


EDIT: Sorry I missed some things there; thanx Healer_Leona, somehow, your words makes me feel better.

DARTH_MU – I think that if you are scared then pm one of the mods with questions but if you look up some post and you can read what Leona told us.


 

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DarthNightfire  522 posts
Registered: Apr '06
Date Posted: 4/22/06 5:09pm Subject: RE: Playing in George’s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction
My advice to this simple minded person is: If you want your fan fiction to be published (which everyone does), then contact Uncle George's people, and ask if it's ok. Then you sweet talk them (I'm excellent at that), give basic info of your life, and wait for a reply. I'm in the progress of one quadlogy of Star Wars, and hope to get it published by my way. But I'd say that George Lucas is one of the nicest people in the world (if not, the nicest), and probably won't sue her, unless a Rocket hits the Star Wars Franchise.

 

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