| Author |
Topic:
**Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion question 10-07-08
|
Alexis_Wingstar
Registered:
Sep '06
|
Date Posted:
5/18 12:20pm
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
|
|
I always assumed that the stormtroopers were just ordinary humans or near humans, not clones.
-----signature-----
"Change. It can be good. It can be bad. It can be expected or come as a thief in the night. Invited or not, it always comes."
~Koria
"Tender Shadows", co-written w/ The Musical Jedi
Padawan to DarthIshtar
NaNoWriMo participant 2nd year in a row.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jade_Pilot
Registered:
Dec '05
|
Date Posted:
5/18 12:34pm
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
- Date Edited:
5/18 12:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jade_Pilot
|
|
I wonder how long the clones were supposed to last/live?
-----signature-----
I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult. - Rita Rudner
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
|
Date Posted:
5/18 3:26pm
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
- Date Edited:
5/18 3:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ardavenport
|
I remember, way back when, just after ANH came out, a lot of fan speculation about the stormtroopers. Lots of people thought they were clones (especially since we knew there had been Clone Wars) but I don't remember any specific article or confirmation about it then.
In ANH all the troopers who talk sound like the same guy. It's really noticeable with the two troopers talking to each other while Obi-Wan is powering down the tractor beem. So, a lot of people just assumed that the stormies were clones.
And remember that the clones are specifically bred to be extra obedient - and easy for Jedi to mind-trick. I don't think the Empire could get that kind of performance out of ordinary infantry. But I presume that they might be using more than one template (other than Jango Fett) to breed their clones from by ANH.
And with accelerated growth, clones probably had half the average lifespan for humand, but they likely die in firefights long before they get to any retirement age.
-----signature-----
Links to all fics -- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=25405090&brd=10304&start=26223917 The Heart of the Jedi -- http://boards.theforce.net/b/b1/26013327 ---- Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, JA and everything you wanted to know about lightsabers
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jedi-2B
Registered:
Nov '00
|
Date Posted:
5/18 3:38pm
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
|
I was pretty sure that the stormtroopers in the OT were ordinary humans, conscripted into the army. And they sound alike due to the voice modulators in their helmets. It seems like in HttE, everyone is shocked that cloning tanks are being revved up again, and I was under the impression that it was much longer ago that clones were used than when Han/Leia/Luke were fighting the Empire. If clones were still used during ANH, wouldn't the galaxy still technically be in the 'Clone Wars,' instead of that being a long time ago? I know there is one or two 'Tales' stories about some of the stormtroopers, who are just regular guys. And weren't the stormies in Allegience ordinary men?
And didn't Leia and Han meet some old clones in Specter of the Past who are now farmers, and they wonder how these guys survived?
-----signature-----
It was on her fifteenth day in the darkness of the Nirauan cave when Mara Jade awoke to discover a rescuer had finally arrived.
It was not, however, any of the potential rescuers she would have expected.
It was Luke.
~~And the rest is history~~
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jade_Pilot
Registered:
Dec '05
|
Date Posted:
5/18 3:58pm
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
|
Jedi-2B posted:
And weren't the stormies in Allegience ordinary men?
That's right! I had forgotten about that! Mara even called them her own personal squad when Vader questioned her about them.
-----signature-----
I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult. - Rita Rudner
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
divapilot
Registered:
Nov '05
|
Date Posted:
5/18 6:02pm
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
|
lazybkys_left posted:
I would say that her glorification of Mandalorians comes from a desire to do something for the clones. Because she couldn't do anything about their enslaved state (being a profic author, she had to stick to LFL continuity) she did what she could by giving them a rich cultural background - a family - to belong to.
To get back to Lazy's quote from Traviss: I am not sure I get what her point is. If she is glorifying the Mandalorians because the clones had a Mandalorian template, then I must be stoopit because I don't get it.
The clones are created from Jango Fett's template (that takes care of movies 1-3), but the stormies are infantry (movies 4-6). The stormies are no more Mandalorian than my cat is. And the clones were only Mandalorian by coincidence. They weren't raised in a Mandalorian culture on Kamino, were they?
So... Where's her point? It's like she's trying to back-form a culture to a group of men (and only men  ) who never saw the planet they supposedly are descendents of?
-----signature-----
 Never tell me the odds. AKL "Beyond the Wall" http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28964433/p1/?6 The Society for Girls Who Like Things that Go Boom. (M. Corde, Pres.) "This is your badness level." ~ Lilo!
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jedi_Emeritus
Registered:
Dec '05
|
Date Posted:
5/18 6:50pm
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
|
divapilot posted:
So... Where's her point? It's like she's trying to back-form a culture to a group of men (and only men shock ) who never saw the planet they supposedly are descendents of?
Good points all.
One thing I wonder (and admittedly this could be because I haven't read a lot of the newer stuff) but didn't the Mandalorians suffer a rather ignominious and unlamented death in the years following KotOR II? I know that Canderous was remaking them to a certain extent at the time, but I thought the inference was that they were on the road to extinction.
Sure there may have been a few here and there who would carry on their traditions, but as a race haven't they been gone for millenia? I guess I just don't understand how one would resurrect a race which died 4000 years before. If I am missing some information, please enlighten me.
-----signature-----
Padawan to EmilieDarklighter If you had to identify, in one word, the reason why the human race has not achieved, and never will achieve, its full potential, that word would be 'meetings'. Take My Hand: http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/28300611/
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Alexis_Wingstar
Registered:
Sep '06
|
Date Posted:
5/18 7:38pm
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
|
|
IIRC, they knew they would become extinct as you put it, so "adopted" people from other stock and converted them to their culture/religion.
-----signature-----
"Change. It can be good. It can be bad. It can be expected or come as a thief in the night. Invited or not, it always comes."
~Koria
"Tender Shadows", co-written w/ The Musical Jedi
Padawan to DarthIshtar
NaNoWriMo participant 2nd year in a row.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Etain
Registered:
May '08
|
Date Posted:
5/19 2:40am
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
|
They were trained by Mando coaches, and one of those was a rather angry old man proud of his heritage. So from his pov, giving them a culture as being the only thing he could give them, Mando would be the logical choice. Especially, since there seemed to be many Mando trainers, probably because Jango chose them and he'd know more Mandos than others.
I hope to find out what happened to them in the last of the RC books. I'll be sure to tell you.
But with their accelerated again, there would not be many around at ANH. They would be happy to get 30. And as ardavenport pointed out, the most likely died in action much sooner.
Adoption was common with Mandos. They are know to pick up children of the guys they just extinct and raise them as their own.
Not sure about the extinction thing, they might just have been few and far between, being rather nomadic and hard to track. I'm sure you could make up an explanation somewhere along those lines.
And the fact that the clones are only men - that's to make little fangirly heart happy. 3,000,000+ clones. 
-----signature-----
RC_DARMAN is back!  ~ Proud Toastmaster of katriene ~ Sock of MsLanna
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jade_Pilot
Registered:
Dec '05
|
Date Posted:
5/19 8:52am
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
- Date Edited:
5/19 8:54am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jade_Pilot
|
I think in one of the TTT books, Luke discovers some old 'cloning' equipment that is later destroyed, but I don't think it was used for Stormies. I think Palps had a more personal idea in mind for the machines. (UGH. Don't even get me started about that plot line.)
I always believed that by 1, 2 and 3 we were seeing 'natural' men in the stormtropper uniforms.
So are these present day Mandos descendants of the clones? I know they adopt, but wouldn't they also have to carry on the line?
Just my 2 cents, but I am extremely tired of the whole cloning story line, even in fanfic. I dread the moment a cloned Mara shows up somewhere.
-----signature-----
I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult. - Rita Rudner
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Rigil_Kent
Registered:
Jan '04
|
Date Posted:
5/19 10:33am
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
|
Jade_Pilot posted:
I think in one of the TTT books, Luke discovers some old 'cloning' equipment that is later destroyed, but I don't think it was used for Stormies.
That's not entirely accurate. If you recall, Thrawn sought two objects of technology from the Wayland site: the Spaarti cylinders (for cloning) and the cloaking device. He then utilized the Spaarti cylinders to significantly increase the size of his forces since the Dark Force dreadnoughts required so many additional personnel by sending the best of his personnel in all areas to Wayland. Han and Luke discovered that the Imps were using clones at the end of Dark Force Rising after they defeated that boarding party of stormtroopers that was comprised entirely of clones & they were surprised at the presence of clones, implying that, by the time of ANH when Luke & Han killed some troopers and took their armor, clones were no longer the principal source of stormies.
-----signature-----
The Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be ... unnatural. -Darth Sidious. Tyranny Reborn: http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28516174/p1 Shattered Dreams: http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/2926341
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
|
Date Posted:
5/19 10:36am
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
|
A very small number of Mando'ade are descendants of Jango Fett's clones.
This is because only a very small number of Clones became Mando'ade under Skirata's influence. We're talking only the Nulls and Omegas, out of hundreds of thousands. In fact, the Deltas though the Omegas weren't quite right for being so Mango-gaga, as alluded to in True Colors.
Also, it's an adoption and merit culture. Heredity doesn't mean much genetically or socially.
There many have originally been a group of humans that populated Mandalore in the forgotten history of the GFFA, but it would be as much of a race as say, the Alderaanian Race or the Corellian Race. Subtle genetic differences due to population isolation, but still the same species.
-----signature-----
Well-behaved women seldom make history.
You can't fix stupid and you can't reason with crazy.
Happiness is a warm Hoojib!
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jedi_Emeritus
Registered:
Dec '05
|
Date Posted:
5/19 11:52am
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
|
You are correct about the Mandalorians being a merit society, but I have also read that they were thought to have evolved from a race or 'proto-humans' from the planet of Coruscant. Apparently there were two such groups, the Zhell and the Taung, and the Mandalorians are descendants of the Taung, (humans being descended from the Zhell) who were exiled to Mandalore after they came out on the losing side of a series of vicious wars between the two groups.
So yes, they did absorb captured people into their culture, where they thought they merited such an honor (resistance is futile), but they also did descend from one particular sub-group of humans as it were. My question was more around whether there were enough Mandalorians left after KotOR to have gathered more into their ranks. It was implied that they were on the road to extinction and having read about them appearing in the LotF series was somewhat of a surprise.
Of course, the idea that humans and Mandalorians all came form Coruscant is conjecture - the source I read it from was written such that the above was a possible origin rather than absolute fact.
-----signature-----
Padawan to EmilieDarklighter If you had to identify, in one word, the reason why the human race has not achieved, and never will achieve, its full potential, that word would be 'meetings'. Take My Hand: http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/28300611/
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Etain
Registered:
May '08
|
Date Posted:
5/19 12:28pm
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
- Date Edited:
5/19 1:34pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Etain
|
Well, I know that in Bounty Hunter Wars, the Mandos are supposed to be extinct and Boba had acquired the armour somehow. I'd say, that is retconned by now, since Boba has become a clone since then, so maybe the Mandos were just not very visible? Tactical retreat to adjust or whatever?
Not all ARCs were happy with the Mando culture being shoved down their throats either. I remember one on RC who rather spurned all the Mando stuff.  On a big scale, I am not sure how many clones were Mandoised, since Skirata didn't handle all of them. And as Rebelgrrl said, the Deltas who were trained by Vau, another Mando, did not get that culture pack along with their training....
I wouldn't think that many Mandos are descendants of clones. Firstly they died young anway, secondly they died even younger in war, and thirdly, most of them didn't know more Mando than how to sing 'Vode an'.
I heard that about the Taung, too, Jedi_Eremitus. I thought it was just another thing to connect Mandos somewhere somehow. 
-----signature-----
RC_DARMAN is back! ~ Proud Toastmaster of katriene ~ Sock of MsLanna
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jade_Pilot
Registered:
Dec '05
|
Date Posted:
5/19 1:12pm
Subject:
RE: **Over 30 Writers Club** New Discussion Question (5-12-08)
- Date Edited:
5/19 2:36pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jade_Pilot
|
Rigil_Kent posted:
Jade_Pilot posted:
I think in one of the TTT books, Luke discovers some old 'cloning' equipment that is later destroyed, but I don't think it was used for Stormies.
That's not entirely accurate. If you recall, Thrawn sought two objects of technology from the Wayland site: the Spaarti cylinders (for cloning) and the cloaking device. He then utilized the Spaarti cylinders to significantly increase the size of his forces since the Dark Force dreadnoughts required so many additional personnel by sending the best of his personnel in all areas to Wayland. Han and Luke discovered that the Imps were using clones at the end of Dark Force Rising after they defeated that boarding party of stormtroopers that was comprised entirely of clones & they were surprised at the presence of clones, implying that, by the time of ANH when Luke & Han killed some troopers and took their armor, clones were no longer the principal source of stormies.
Wow, you've got like this SUPER memory thing going on!
-----signature-----
I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult. - Rita Rudner
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
