Jedi Council Forums - Mixed-race romance, marriage and children

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Author	Topic: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
Kevin_Solo Registered: Jun '07	Date Posted: 8/30/07 3:19am Subject: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	I don't know if this has been discussed here before; but I was interested to see if the question of mixed-race romance, marriage and children has been dealt with by anyone here. When I mean 'mixed-race', I mean romance and marriage between, and children of, a human and a non-human, or two non-humans.
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divapilot Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 8/30/07 4:03am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	Interesting question! There are some Beyond stories that feature relationships between humans & nonhumans. I believe the TOS is fine with it as long as it is between adult sentients. It helps if it is a pairing that has already been established in canon, such as in Beyond, where "Face" Loran had a Twi'lek girlfriend. There is also another human/Twi'lek pairing (although only referential) in the human Baron and his Twi'lek wife at the opera house in ROTS. (You know, the Baron, played by that guy who usually wears flannel.) As for children, I would assume biologically that humans and near-humans could have children. However, the farther away you get, the less likely you would be to physically carry a child to term. -----signature----- Never tell me the odds. UConn: Huskies forever! RIP Jasper Howard, #6 "Focus on what matters. It's about the GAME, not each other. Dumb humans."
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lazykbys_left Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 8/30/07 6:43am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children[links: McEwok's thread, ISRR, etc.] - Date Edited: 8/30/07 6:51am (2 edits total) Edited By: lazykbys_left
	A while back, there was a thread by Thrawn McEwok that, sadly, quickly became derailed and locked. The present JC Fanfic policy on such relationships is the Actor-in-a-Suit rule, which says that a 'ship between a human and a nonhuman is acceptable if the nonhuman can be performed by someone in a costume (please see the stickied Fanfic FAQ for details). As for stories about such 'ships: Before Saga Beyond - lazy -----signature----- "You're like some kind of link machine." - rhonderoo It didn't stop being magic just because you found out how it was done. DARK SIDE FHTAGN lazykbys fanfic index (click and scroll dowwwn): http://boards.theforce.net/m/b1/17609715/r17736763
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JadeSolo Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 8/30/07 6:53am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	I know Quinlan Vos, a near-human, and whats-her-name (it's too early in the morning to remember, Khaleen?), who was humanoid but "less human" IMO, had a child without any problems. That is, their species were biologically capable of mating and producing a child, not that they had any issues in the actual act of creating the child. This may sound cold and scientific, but I think the possibility of children depends a lot on how compatible the species of the parents are. A German shepherd and an Alaskan malamute can mate and produce a litter because at the end of the day, they're both dogs. They're just different breeds - the distinction is mostly in looks. Same thing with humans - one from Canada can mate with one from China because the difference is in looks, not in general form of species. In the GFFA, it seems near-humans are closely enough related to humans or most other near-humans that a mating is possible. I don't know if scientists have proved that Neandertals and homo sapiens humans could've mated (though I do know there's an excellent trilogy by Robert J. Sawyer that touches on this), but I guess near-humans and humans are all related even more closely that that. With complete aliens, it would be the same logic. A dog and a cat can't mate and produce a litter. Can a Twi'lek and Rodian mate and produce a child? Another idea to consider - a horse and a donkey produce a sterile offspring. Could that happen from a "mixed" mating in the GFFA? And what would be the implications in a society that values the ability to produce offspring above anything else you might do? Anyway, my long-winded point is that it seems people here are more considered with the emotional and political factors of the mixed relationship. That is, you may not see so much talk of "Can we physically/biologically/scientifically produce children?" as "Can we raise our kids without prejudice from the rest of our societies?" The latter, for example, brought up in the X-wing novels when Gavin (human) and Asyr (Bothan) were planning to adopt both human and Bothan children. -----signature----- "If you expect a kick in the balls and you get a slap in the face, it's a victory." "May God bless you and keep you always...I mean that in a civic deist way." -Prof. Siegel "No guaranteed money, but all guaranteed fun!"
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DarthIshtar Title: Former CR Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 8/30/07 7:25am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	I liked the issue raised in those books--namely that there would be a lot of opposition from the Bothan society because of their views on humans. In fact, Borsk Fey'lya eventually stops their efforts to adopt. -----signature----- "I feel like a more down-to-earth Pink 5 when I'm writing Leah. Same attitude, less lip gloss." ~Me on how to get in the right mindset for Twilight fanfic.
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Golden_Jedi Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 8/30/07 7:27am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	JadeSolo posted: Anyway, my long-winded point is that it seems people here are more considered with the emotional and political factors of the mixed relationship. That is, you may not see so much talk of "Can we physically/biologically/scientifically produce children?" as "Can we raise our kids without prejudice from the rest of our societies?" The latter, for example, brought up in the X-wing novels when Gavin (human) and Asyr (Bothan) were planning to adopt both human and Bothan children. Nice points. I agree that that's far more interesting that sheer biology... I think though that genetic manipulation issues could be add something extra too the mix (can we?/should we?/will we? type of questions) -----signature----- New Bespin Café - come visit THE place for H/L fans http://boards.theforce.net/fan_fiction_resource/b10304/29538471 Diving (a H/L intertrilogy AU) http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/27836852
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UnderCoverJedi Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 8/30/07 11:30am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	I may be wrong, that happens a lot, but I seem to remember something in one of the EU books about a human/Twi'Lek. Of course, that may be a product of a very vivid imagination and only about two hours of sleep. -----signature----- Not e-married, e-engaged, or e-attached. I prefer to do those things in person. In His Master's Wake http://boards.theforce.net/before_the_saga/b10475/28185973/p1/?0 Never http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/25789579
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JediNemesis Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 8/30/07 1:49pm Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	Jade has an exceedingly pertinent point, but, let's face it, given the restrictions of this site we're never going to be going into the mechanics of the situation. If I post that character of species X and character of species Y have produced a dear little X/Y mutant, nobody can demand to know precisely how they managed it. It'd be very interesting to read a fic dealing with the more physical side of the hybrid question though. There's definitely an opening for, say, a sterile hybrid getting exceedingly upset when she finds out she'll never have children. (Though, to me, it's always been one of those vague fanon things that there's various forms of genetic tech knocking around - blackmarket cloning and the like - which could probably produce a mixed-species kid if the parents were desperate.) Or how about, for that matter, a hybrid who came off badly, and is physically or mentally disabled. How do they feel, if they live to adulthood? How do the parents feel? Are there laws on some planets against miscegenation to prevent that kind of thing? I bet half-breeds in GFFA get abuse, too. Can you imagine what they'd get at school? "You know X's dad was a Wookiee? I mean, how do you think . . ." This post has spawned a whole brood of plot-bunnies, just working through the practicalities. Might have to look into some of those -----signature----- BeTS Best Author '08 NEW Bad Dreams - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29893091 Eleven Summers - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29657584 Into The Shining Day - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29224914
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divapilot Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 8/30/07 5:56pm Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	Just remembered another one, although it wasn't an "official" 'ship: Kit Fisto and Aayla Secura. -----signature----- Never tell me the odds. UConn: Huskies forever! RIP Jasper Howard, #6 "Focus on what matters. It's about the GAME, not each other. Dumb humans."
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LLL Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 8/30/07 6:05pm Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	I thought Kit was a ... wait, too many head-tails. What was Kit, anyway?? -----signature----- I apologize to anyone I may have hurt or offended while I was posting here. Namaste.
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Darth_Manion Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 8/30/07 6:38pm Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	Okay, I was just innocently lurking, but now I have to ask - What's the word on humanoid/android pairings? For example, in the Avengers they have the Scarlet Witch and Vision (for those of you that read comic books). (I suppose that's one way of asking if Androids Dream of electric sheep...) -----signature----- "Life... is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless, perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for." -Smoking Man, 'The X-Files'
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JediNemesis Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 8/31/07 2:35am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	LLL posted: What was Kit, anyway?? Nautolan And Darth_Manion, I'd imagine that the actor-in-a-suit rule is still standard when a human and a sentient android are involved. No reason why it shouldn't be -----signature----- BeTS Best Author '08 NEW Bad Dreams - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29893091 Eleven Summers - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29657584 Into The Shining Day - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29224914
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Bale Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 8/31/07 4:07am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	Darth_Manion posted: Okay, I was just innocently lurking, but now I have to ask - What's the word on humanoid/android pairings? For example, in the Avengers they have the Scarlet Witch and Vision (for those of you that read comic books). (I suppose that's one way of asking if Androids Dream of electric sheep...) I'm guessing that situations like Xizor/Guri (Human Replica Droid) would be okay, but anything less humanoid would be pushing the envelope too far. -----signature----- Missing scene: Vader in the meditation chamber: http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/26817395/p1/?4 Decoy teaser trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvDksDPJoyk
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Kevin_Solo Registered: Jun '07	Date Posted: 8/31/07 5:35am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	Thanks to everyone who has posted in so far. In particular, thanks to lazykbys_left for posting the links to the stories and the older thread. Of particular interest to me would not necessarily be whether certain couples could physically produce healthy children, as adoption and fostering could be available, but how mixed-race couples would bring up their children in a mixed cultural environment.
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JadeSolo Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 8/31/07 10:53am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	In that case, I'd look to real-life situations. Say it's a Twi'lek and a Bothan couple. Are they living among Twi'leks, among Bothans, or in a melting pot like Coruscant? In the first two situations, not only are you considering how the mixed species child would be treated, but also the immigrant parent (so to speak). As for the human/droid pairing, that's a tough one. Technically the HRD could be played by someone in a suit. On the other hand the HRD isn't even a sentient species. Or is it? And then you've got movies like "Bicentennial Man" and all their implications. -----signature----- "If you expect a kick in the balls and you get a slap in the face, it's a victory." "May God bless you and keep you always...I mean that in a civic deist way." -Prof. Siegel "No guaranteed money, but all guaranteed fun!"
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JediNemesis Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 8/31/07 11:33am Subject: RE: Mixed-race romance, marriage and children
	JadeSolo posted: As for the human/droid pairing, that's a tough one. Technically the HRD could be played by someone in a suit. On the other hand the HRD isn't even a sentient species. Or is it? GFFA droids are recognisably sentient, intelligent and capable of interaction (for all that their owners regularly wish they weren't ); it's hard to say whether this would allow one to form any kind of emotional bond. Although, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there some obscure EU story where someone's mind is transcribed into an HRD? -----signature----- BeTS Best Author '08 NEW Bad Dreams - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29893091 Eleven Summers - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29657584 Into The Shining Day - http://boards.theforce.net/a/b1/29224914
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