| Author |
Topic:
The Official TFN Archive Thread: Three new fics/two new covers for June :)
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obaona
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 4:02pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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ardavenport - I clicked on that link maybe ten times, and didn't run into that problem.  Perhaps it's a browser/website compatibility problem? (Yahoo mail used to crash both IE and Firefox when I clicked links - until I reinstalled Windows, when it was magically fixed.  ) Have you tried another browser?
If it's a problem with the site, I'm not sure there's a lot that can be done about it - we don't really have a tech person at the Archive at present, unfortunately. Perhaps the editors can answer that question.
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atty is the bestest! MS Word is designed by sadists with masochists in mind.  - teh atty
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 4:18pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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It could be a browser problem and those are harder to find if you can't get the problem to repeat. I'm using Firefox and I've just been working around it.
If you get a tech person, let us know!
Another question: How long should it take for an accepted story to appear in the Archives?
I got the e-mail accepting a short story of mine last March. I sent the cover art that week. Actually, I think I sent it twice since I sent the wrong art file the first time. I was just thinking that 6 months was a little long.
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 4:18pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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I don't want to bother my beta readers if I thought the POV problems would kick it out anyway (and frankly, I've tried to fix them and they're not fixable without a major and potentially impossible overhaul). Thanks.
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Gabri_Jade
Title: Fan Fiction Archive Editor Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 4:20pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
- Date Edited:
9/10/07 4:25pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Gabri_Jade
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PK and Atty gave excellent answers here.  Like they said, when it comes to the number of errors, the proportion is the important thing. When it distracts the reviewer, it'll distract readers too, and such a story is much more likely to get rejected.
The type of mistake is extremely important as well. Like Atty's example of the POV shifts, some mistakes need bigger fixes than others. A few forgotten punctuation marks are far more likely to get leeway in an acceptance because the editors can fix that fairly easily when we're coding a story. (Quick caveat here: That doesn't mean that the editors will act as third betas and fix all of a story's errors, by any means, so please don't assume that we'll do so. I'm talking about high quality stories that the reviewers really want to accept, with very few and very minor fixes. Anything beyond that is likely to get rejected and fixes are up to the author.) However, things like POV shifts, or characterization, or narrative flow, or plot, etc. - those things are the foundation of a story, and something that only the author can take care of. A story that reviewers absolutely loved save for one spelling error will almost certainly get through and the editors will fix the mistake before archiving; a story that reviewers absolutely loved save for one really glaring glitch in the narrative flow will almost always be rejected.
Just one correction, Atty: And because, unlike grammar, POV mistakes are not definite or easily repairable, we can't just give out an acceptance and ask you to fix it.
We give out conditional acceptances so rarely that I'd be more comfortable saying that we never do. Earlier in the Archive's history, that did happen on occasion, but it was decided that it was neither effective nor in line with the principles of the reviewing process. As I mentioned above, if the error in question isn't something technical that an editor can quickly and easily correct, the story will be rejected and have to be resubmitted for another consideration, should the author wish it.
ardavenport, like oba, I had no problems with the link. I also have to admit that I'm definitely the least tech-savvy editor, so if there was a problem, I'd be pretty useless. Generally when the Archive gets technical attention, Herman's the lucky one who gets to chat with Anthony, so he might have a better idea than I do.
Edit: ardavenport, saw your second post after I'd posted.
Another question: How long should it take for an accepted story to appear in the Archives?
General answer: It depends on when the cover art is ready, how much coding a story needs, and how much time the editors have. A longer story or one with many italics takes longer to code, and while it happens fairly rarely, sometimes all three editors get walloped with DRL at once and coding gets put on hold for a while. Generally speaking, though, once we get the cover art done and have an artist's name to put into the coding, it shouldn't take long for a story to be archived.
Specifically regarding your story, I'll PM you. Something definitely fell through the cracks there.
Just for general knowledge: If anyone has a specific question regarding the length of time your story is taking, either in the reviewing process or in archival, by all means ask us. We don't mind discussing these matters, and sometimes we miss something and don't realize it until the author pokes us.
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Evil Twin of LadyPadme  This concept of "wuv" confuses and infuriates us! - Futurama All I can do is be me. Whoever that is. -Bob Dylan A Simple Twist of Fate - L/M AU vig http://boards.theforce.net/b/b1/28481173 !!11!1eleventy
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JadeSolo
Title: Not Safe For managing:
NSWFF
Fan Fic
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 6:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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I have a question: Why did you reject my story!!1!!?1!?!!
Kidding! Thank you for putting the time into this thread. It's very helpful!
So now, my real question. The Submission Guidelines say:
If EU characters are used, they should be in tune with their presentation in the books (as the fanfic author has seen them), or have good reason to behave differently.
Can you explain what the part in bold means? What you would look for in a story? I don't mean to argue about "AU" vs. "canon" characterization, by the way. I was just trying to think of a situation where an author's interpretation of an EU character is not quite what you see at face value in print, but also not quite AU. Do you have general guidelines for AU behaviour, or do you just make sure that the behaviour fits within the context of the story?
I hope that makes sense. I suppose these questions could apply to film characters as well, but EU characters get all those interesting author commentaries to further develop author interpretations.
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Herman Snerd
Title:
- Archive Editor
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 6:38pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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Not having written that, my initial guess is that the bold passage refers to what EU books the author has read.
As the EU has grown the characterizations have changed - drastically in some instances. For someone like me who gave up the EU quite a long time ago, I'm more likely to write the Solo kids the way I remember them from the last books I read, not from the most recently published EU novel.
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Gabri_Jade
Title: Fan Fiction Archive Editor Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 7:59pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
- Date Edited:
9/10/07 8:04pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Gabri_Jade
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Ah, characterization. Almost as intangible a thing as narrative. And that bolded part confuses me, too.
Characterization can be a tricky thing to judge, there's no doubt about it. Like Herman says, characterization has changed a lot in the EU itself - as a Mara fan, you probably don't want to get me started about how wildly her characterization can vary even from book to book. And every fanfic author is going to see things just a little bit differently than the others, too. What I personally do when reviewing is try to view the character in the light of their original source: For the movie characters, their appearances in the movies, for the EU characters, the way their creating author wrote them. And even that allows for wildly differing interpretations at times, from a Dark Luke to a Jedi youngling Mara and everything in between.
I honestly don't know how much sense I'm making; hopefully one of our more eloquent reviewers will chime in with their viewpoint. But I guess the bottom line is that no, we don't have any real guidelines for AU behavior. It's something each reviewer has to decide for themselves.
The safety net against potential individual disagreements on characterization is the reviewing process itself. Our staff is incredibly diverse, with correspondingly diverse preferences and areas of "specialization", if you will, which means that each story reviewed gets a pretty fair shake between two of us. Also, if a story I reviewed is submitted, rejected, and resubmitted, I'll nearly always not take it the second time around, which lets the story be viewed by fresh eyes; I think most of us do the same.
If your story is rejected for characterization, my advice would be to contact both reviewers (and the editor, if it was a split) and get their reasoning. What did they see that they felt was out of character, and why did they feel that way? Do they have any suggestions as to how the characterization should be tweaked? Listen to them, and make some changes if you think their points are valid. Run the story by a beta again, maybe a different one than before, perhaps someone who's known as a good writer of or particular fan of that character. Resubmit the story, knowing that in all likelihood, two different reviewers will look at it this time around.
And I know I talk too much, but I really want to say this: If you strongly disagree with the reviewers' reasonings as far as characterization (or anything else), by all means stick to your guns and resubmit anyway. Maybe the next two reviewers will think it's great - and even if your story doesn't wind up being archived, you'll feel better about your story if you do what you think is best for it. I've so often seen people get really upset about a story being rejected from the Archive. That's a natural reaction, but really, don't be too worried about it. The Archive is a great fic repository and we're proud of it, but it's not the be all and end all of fanfiction, and not getting a story archived does not mean that it's an awful story or you're an awful writer or that readers won't love that story in another venue. Write what you love, the way you love it, and if it doesn't quite work for Archive puposes, don't let that discourage you. Striving to improve is always great, but you being happy with your writing is vastly more important than the Archive being happy with it.
Edit: Clarity.
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Evil Twin of LadyPadme This concept of "wuv" confuses and infuriates us! - Futurama All I can do is be me. Whoever that is. -Bob Dylan A Simple Twist of Fate - L/M AU vig http://boards.theforce.net/b/b1/28481173 !!11!1eleventy
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LLL
Title: TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 9:02pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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I am asking because I may be submitting a 1000-page epic very soon and wanted to know if there was a "standard period."
Oh, man. You've got me beat by ... umm ... *goes to check* ... 486 pages.
Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil is 514 pages long in manuscript form. I finished it in March of 2006, did some minor surgery, and submitted it in June. It was over a year before I heard that it was accepted, with reviewers claimin' and unclaimin' it all over the place.  BUT, I am staff, and staff submissions get lower priority. And the subject matter isn't for everyone.
Heaven knows when it is going to go up, because it is full of italics near the end, and it's been tough to get cover art that I think adequately reflects the subject matter. I don't hound cover artists, because they are after all donating their time. Plus ... I've been doing substantial rehauling on this story for reasons not related to TFN, and need to swap some chapters for their "new and improved" versions. If the editors don't kill me. 
SO, I'd say my wait time to hear if it got in or not is pretty much on par; but I wouldn't go by my acceptance-to-archival time at all.
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Jedi Trace
Title:
• SouthEast RSA
• Fan Fiction Manager
Registered:
Dec '99
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 10:24pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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Gabri_Jade posted:
I honestly don't know how much sense I'm making; hopefully one of our more eloquent reviewers will chime in with their viewpoint. But I guess the bottom line is that no, we don't have any real guidelines for AU behavior. It's something each reviewer has to decide for themselves.
I’m not eloquent, by any stretch of the imagination, but I’ll chime in to say that I will buy into AU characterization if it is strong, consistent, and plausible within the setting of the story. I think what we don’t want to see is an OC with a canon character's name stuck on it. 
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Gabri_Jade
Title: Fan Fiction Archive Editor Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 10:45pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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You're eloquent enough for me, Trace; you said exactly what I meant, and more concisely. 
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Evil Twin of LadyPadme This concept of "wuv" confuses and infuriates us! - Futurama All I can do is be me. Whoever that is. -Bob Dylan A Simple Twist of Fate - L/M AU vig http://boards.theforce.net/b/b1/28481173 !!11!1eleventy
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DarthIshtar
Title: Former CR
Scattergories winner
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 11:00pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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I have a very widespread question that I've noticed other people have issues with, so am submitting from the unhappy masses who puzzle over it:
You submit an all-OC story and get rejected for characterization issues. Does that mean it has inconsistent characterization or just that the reviewers don't like the OCs?
Now that that's over, this is an immensely helpful thread.
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Gabri_Jade
Title: Fan Fiction Archive Editor Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
9/10/07 11:44pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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Well, personally I can't recall having rejected an all-OC fic for characterization, but I can see how it might happen. Inconsistent characterization is definitely a possibility, as is weak characterization; for example, perhaps from the established back story within the fic itself, the reviewer isn't convinced that a character would behave the way they do later in the fic. As with any other rejection slip that mentions characterization, I strongly encourage the author to talk to the reviewers about it. Nuts and bolts stuff like spelling and grammar are straightforward; you get a letter mentioning those and you know what to look for on the next editing run. With more nebulous stuff like characterization and narrative, it's a lot harder. It's always worth seeing why a reviewer decided the way they did.
As far as reviewers not liking the OCs in the story, lots of great characters in literature are thoroughly unlikable, yet add to the story. Mr. Collins from Pride and Prejudice springs to mind; he makes me cringe, but think what the overall story would lose without him. Disliking a character doesn't automatically make one dismiss the story, or even the character. If a reviewer didn't like a particular OC so much that they thought it would interfere with their reviewing, they always have the option of unclaiming the fic and letting someone else make a decision.
More generally speaking, those who don't care for OC stories are encouraged to not claim them at all. That's across the board; if a reviewer really dislikes any particular character or type of fic, they're not supposed to claim them. For one thing, it's not particularly fair to the authors and stories. If you already know you don't like OCs, how likely is it that you'll be truly objective? And for another, none of us particularly want to sit around reading fics we don't like. Fortunately, we really do have a wide variety of preferences within the staff, so there's always someone who likes any type of story we get.
Glad the thread is helpful. 
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Evil Twin of LadyPadme This concept of "wuv" confuses and infuriates us! - Futurama All I can do is be me. Whoever that is. -Bob Dylan A Simple Twist of Fate - L/M AU vig http://boards.theforce.net/b/b1/28481173 !!11!1eleventy
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MariahJade2
Title: FanFic Archive Editor
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
9/11/07 4:06am
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
- Date Edited:
9/11/07 4:10am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
MariahJade2
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To put things in simpler terms, for example, if your OC is a Sith, he/she needs to behave in a manner that would be recognizable as a sith within the AU premise, and if they behave differently, the reasons should be established within the story. It is one of the reasons you might see characterization listed in an OC rejection. Consistency in the character is another.
This also goes back to Jade Solo's question regarding the guidlines. That's what I thnk they were intending to get across.
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TKeira_Lea
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
9/11/07 8:00am
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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DarthIshtar posted:
You submit an all-OC story and get rejected for characterization issues. Does that mean it has inconsistent characterization or just that the reviewers don't like the OCs?
Ths question actually ties into almost all the other questions brought up before. Typically as reviewers we try to pick stuff that interests us. Sometimes with the OC stories, it may not grab any particular reviewer's attention immediately. Hence, one reason a story will sort of stick in the queue. That's not to say a story is bad; it just hasn't grabbed a reviewer. As mentioned before, if you don't see two reviewers in your story status after a few weeks then by all means send a note to the editors. They're the bosses and they don't shirk from shaking a stick at us reviewers from time to time to get us hopping.
On another note, if you have two reviewers on your story then typically those two reviewers have committed to a timely turn around. Sometimes we end up with a split and then it's sort of like going back to a new queue manned by only the editors. So now instead of a large pool of reviewers one of our three editors has to read the submission and render a final decision. The longer the story, the longer this process can become.
Back to the question, characterization covers a wide range of issues in writing. The only way to get a specific answer is to ask for reviewer feedback. You have to remember this is a subjective process. As has been said before, if a reviewer just didn't get the story or your OC it may boil down to personal tastes. All of us as reviewers typically avoid taking a resubmitted piece we've already rejected, knowing that someone else may really like the story and accept it.
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SabyneAmberle
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
9/11/07 10:54am
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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What a great thread! Nice job, Archive peeps! 
Here's my question. Are there any types of fics that you absolutely cannot accept? For example, I know that FF.net cannot accept songfics due to copyright issues (though some folks do try to work around that). Is it the same for the Archive?
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