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Topic:
The Official TFN Archive Thread: Three new fics/two new covers for June :)
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
9/21/07 10:37pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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Yes, I think the disagreement remains. I suppose I'll just summarize by saying that additional options for submission and rejection of stories could really clarify communication between writers/reviewers/editors.
I appreciate the work that goes into the Archives and this thread is a very good move toward improving communication.
Ugh, on the links. They really did look different from the other problem I've had with links in the Archives. Another trip to Comms for me.....
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Persephone_Kore
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
9/21/07 11:23pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
- Date Edited:
9/21/07 11:23pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Persephone_Kore
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On broken links:
http://www.theforce.net/main/contact.shtml
and
http://fanfic.theforce.net/style.asp
do give me precisely the errors ardavenport is reporting. The first gives me the error message enclosed in regular TheForce.net formatting, with a mailto: link to a TFN email for error-reporting. The second gives me the error unadorned.
I've run into a fair number of errors that look like the first error page while just roaming the regular areas of the TFN site, though, so I don't know that they're really likely to come running.
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LLL
Title: TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
9/22/07 5:08pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
- Date Edited:
9/22/07 5:09pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
LLL
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It's not the Archive's responsibility to mollycoddle authors and hold their hands when a story is rejected.
I suppose it would be, and could be, if it were always a slow place. In a perfect world, I'm sure we'd all like to run it this way if we could.
There have been times on here where, I swear, we were BURIED. This is the reason why we can't write you a personalized essay. Or rather, we can't write *everybody* a personalized essay as a matter of course. Most of us will go back and do so if asked. I just completed two betas on 200+ page stories with *exhaustive* notes on reasons for rejection. Each one took me two weeks!
This is why we try to do a polite laundry list, and sort of hope people will ask. Can I do this for every story I review?? OMG, no. 
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''Overall, to get a real deep, nuanced understanding of human behaviour, art is the best way.'' --Natalie Portman. Have a question or suggestion for the Archive? PM me anytime. 
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VaderLVR64
Title: Fan Fic Who Runs w/ Scissors
Registered:
Feb '04
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Date Posted:
9/23/07 10:51am
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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Whenever I've asked about a story's rejection, I've always gotten a complete, polite, and timely response. And I've been surprised at the number of times a reviewer has offered to specifically help me get the story archived with pertinent advice. I think it's better to put the onus on the author to ASK, rather than on the reviewers to write out a complete, detailed analysis of why. Because really, some authors don't really care about WHY. Me? I want to know why. Sometimes, it's something that can be corrected and sometimes it's just the nature of the story to remain the way it is. In that case, the author must decided to either A) remain true to the story or B) change whatever necessary in order to get it archived.
I'd prefer staying true to the story and have made that choice every time. But the reviewers have always been incredibly helpful.
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I'm a Nana. 6 lbs. 9 oz. 18 1/2 inches long - Baby Vader
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
9/23/07 3:37pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
- Date Edited:
9/23/07 3:48pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ardavenport
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Hmmmmmmmmm, if at all possible, perhaps a link to this thread should be included in the Archives FAQ?
I am optimistically assuming that the Archives will get tech support some day.
And an author's note, of a limited number of characters set by the Archives, is neither an essay nor is it hand-holding the authors. Nor have I ever suggested that the reviewer don't work really hard. I know they do. They have been very helpful on my submissions.
Again, I am optimistically assuming that tech support will happen someday. Obviously all kinds of things can't happen until then.
I am even more of the opinion that the submission and rejection processes at the Archives are so brief and rigid that they invite miscommunication. Experienced writers know to ask. Less experienced ones don't.
Edit: for comments.
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Links to all fics -- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=25405090&brd=10304&start=26223917 The Heart of the Jedi -- http://boards.theforce.net/b/b1/26013327 ---- Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, JA and everything you wanted to know about lightsabers
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MariahJade2
Title: FanFic Archive Editor
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
9/23/07 5:42pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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I sent the broken links to the tech guy to see if he'll be able to work on them. If anyone sees any more let me know.
As far as author notes, they can always put ahead of the story as has been suggested. It's not against the rules, but I would rather not encourage it. We want the reviewing process to be as unbiased as possible, so to insert author notes seems a bit counter to that end.
Regarding whether authors ask for more info or not, that will always be up to the author to do. Everyone is told in school and beyond in the workforce to ask questions when they don't understand or need help. We are trying to help alleviate any questions with this thread.
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"That's the thing about yer Chinese Death Stars - an hour after being killed, you're alive again."
Get a life.
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
9/23/07 6:11pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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MariahJade2 posted:
As far as author notes, they can always put ahead of the story as has been suggested. It's not against the rules, but I would rather not encourage it. We want the reviewing process to be as unbiased as possible, so to insert author notes seems a bit counter to that end.
I have to agree on that point. Specifically saying in the guidelines that it's OK to put author comments in with the story really would invite essays. I don't plan on doing it. I prefer that the story file contain only the story. But not having some space for a comment to the editors and/or reviewers feels sterile. Perhaps that is a reflex from my print-fanzine days, when all of my submissions were sent (snail-mail) with a letter.
But without tech support for now, there's no way to introduce any change in the submission process anyway.
But for rejections.....if the stated reason in the e-mail is not the real reason for the rejection, then that just isn't good. It would be better to add a some really generic, "The story style is not suitable for the Archives," messages to the standard laundry list to cover those cases.
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Gabri_Jade
Title: Fan Fiction Archive Editor Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
9/23/07 6:56pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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ardavenport posted:
But for rejections.....if the stated reason in the e-mail is not the real reason for the rejection, then that just isn't good.
As I and others have explained, the reasons stated in the final letter are accurate. If grammatical errors were a reason a reviewer stated when rejection, then "grammar errors" is what's going to show up on the letter - because deliberate or not, errors are still errors. (And I might add that if there was any confusion as to whether or not it was a deliberate choice from the author, saying "the story style is not suitable for the Archives" would only mislead an author who'd simply made technical errors. Since we can't read the authors' minds, sticking to brief, laundry list facts on the rejection letter is by far the safest course.) The only question here is in what sub-aspect of craftsmanship the error was a failing: technical or artistic. Regardless, the editors are only re-stating what the reviewers have already said. If an author wishes further explanation, ask.
I respect your opinion here, Anne, but I do wish you'd drop the "untruthful" aspect, because that's not what we're doing at all. And I'm really getting the feeling that right now, we're doing little more than going around in circles. Perhaps we could move on to another topic of discussion, at least for a while.
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
9/23/07 8:20pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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Well, first I need to deliberately and explicitly drop the "untrue" aspect. I don't think there is any deliberate intention to deceive. But a story that has a intentionally non-standard grammar (and the reviewer can see this) and a story that just has mistakes in it are not the same. And it's counterproductive to tack on the same reason for rejection on them just because the laundry list isn't long enough.
The rejection e-mail invites the author to contact the reviewers right away, which is very helpful, but I think it's really important to be more accurate in the first place. And no, I don't think we're going to agree on that topic.
New topic:
When sending a request for beta readers to the Archives beta readers mailing list, how long should one wait for a reply before sending another request, or trying something else?
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Links to all fics -- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=25405090&brd=10304&start=26223917 The Heart of the Jedi -- http://boards.theforce.net/b/b1/26013327 ---- Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, JA and everything you wanted to know about lightsabers
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VaderLVR64
Title: Fan Fic Who Runs w/ Scissors
Registered:
Feb '04
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Date Posted:
9/24/07 7:43am
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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To be honest, on beta readers I've found that simply finding my own from the boards works MUCH better! I'll never forget the beta I found on the list who told me that I needed to EXPLAIN who Darth Vader was...and how he was related to Leia. 
I'd recommend finding a few people (I have about four people I call on) to beta read and keeping them. The list never worked for me. Of course, that may be an isolated thing pertinent only to me. 
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If you have to choose between tears and laughter, remember that laughter burns more calories.
I'm a Nana. 6 lbs. 9 oz. 18 1/2 inches long - Baby Vader
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MariahJade2
Title: FanFic Archive Editor
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
9/24/07 5:07pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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Well everyone should know that the Beta-list at the Archives is just a list service and it's not actually something we have control over other than maintaing the list. Basically, anyone can sign up to be a beta-reader so we can't vouch for the quality. It's really there for those who can't find someone to help them. If you or anyone you know is a good beta and would like to offer your services, do sign up and add your name to the list. It's also important to remember that you don't need to use anyone on that list as your beta-readers. You are free to obtain your own two beta's for the submission. Also if you are on the list and no longer wish to beta and receive the e-mails, please let us know so we can remove the name.
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Have a question or suggestion for the Archive? PM me anytime.
"That's the thing about yer Chinese Death Stars - an hour after being killed, you're alive again."
Get a life.
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
9/24/07 5:37pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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I also have a few people that I use as betas. I've never used the beta list myself. Sometimes I'll have several of my friends do it in order to get a variety of opinions as to what to change - especially if I'm unsure myself.
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Persephone_Kore
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
9/24/07 9:04pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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To offer an actual timeframe, I wouldn't actually wait. It doesn't hurt to drop a line to the list, but if you have someone else to ask, I don't think it would be rude to go ahead and do so.
I do tend to think of the mailing list and the Beta-Reader Index here as useful resources, but something of a last resort. If I can, I'll always start by asking someone I already know, whose advice I trust and who I have reason to believe is interested. I do know this isn't always feasible for everyone, especially newcomers to a fandom; I only ask a fairly limited number of people myself, and I think I met one of them through Star Wars. It's certainly possible to do a good job beta-reading a story that isn't really your cup of tea, but it is substantially easier to help someone with a story that is your cup of tea than to help someone who is trying to make hot chocolate instead. 
Well, I'd prefer the hot chocolate. So it's not a great metaphor. But anyway, feel free to ask the mailing list, but don't fret about waiting for it to get back to you if you've got someone else to talk to.
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Herman Snerd
Title:
- Archive Editor
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
9/25/07 6:47pm
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
- Date Edited:
9/26/07 6:37pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Herman Snerd
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As a minor addendum, there have been several snafus lately with the beta mailing list.
I thought I had it working fine after the "upgrade" but it seems to be all kerflooey lately. I'm going to try again to get a techie to help out, but barring that I'll probably just need to clear out the queue and kick-start the darn thing again.
If that ends up being the solution, I'll send along an e-mail through the list to let everyone know.
EDIT: For whatever reason, the mail account for the beta list seems to be working fine again and I was able to send requests through last night.
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Have a question or suggestion for the Archive? PM Mariah anytime.  Voted Dork Magazine's "Sexiest Nerd Alive" for 2008 http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb237/Snerdmania/DSCF0113.jpg
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Rynne
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
10/1/07 12:22am
Subject:
RE: The Official TFN Archive Thread
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So a couple years ago I submitted an article on how to properly format dialogue. It was pretty well received, and Gabri once told me you wouldn't mind a few more articles on proper grammar as well. I've been toying with the idea, but most common errors don't require as much in-depth explanation and correction as dialogue formatting does. I was wondering, first if you would still like more articles on grammar, and second, if I should do a series of much shorter articles with one topic each, or one longer article containing multiple topics.
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