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Topic:
The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread - Masters and Padawans
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Alexis_Wingstar
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
2/12 1:58pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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in one fanfic story, I cannot think of the author right now, they included a laundromat in the temple.
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"Change. It can be good. It can be bad. It can be expected or come as a thief in the night. Invited or not, it always comes."
~Koria
"Tender Shadows", co-written w/ The Musical Jedi
Padawan to DarthIshtar
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
2/12 8:22pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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1Yodimus_Prime posted:
I think it would keep things nice and zen-like if Jedi are walking long, winding, twisty hallways to get from one side of the third-of-a-mile-plus span to the other. No one's ever on time, but there's lots of thinking along the way: Sounds Jedi-ish to me.
That does sound very Jedi-ish to me, too.  But I think that Jedi are probably on time, they're just not in a hurry.
Laundry!! Huge dryers of tumbling brown Jedi robes, nice and warm. Aaaaaaaaaah, now there's a lot of story potential. The Jedi would definitely use droids for that. Perhaps each hallway of the living area has its own laundry chute? But then how does everyone get their clean clothes back? Droid delivery? I suppose so. But I guess everyone would have to have more than one change of clothes.
Off-hand, I don't think anyone does their own washing/dusting/cleaning/whatever on Coruscant, whether they're Jedi or not. That's what they have droids for. I suppose at night, huge zamboni-like machines cruise the hallways of the Temple keeping them polished. So, while the Jedi lifestyle would be very spartan as far as possessions go, they would still have all the other conveniences of life in the GFFA.
I also imagine Jedi kids living together in dormitory settings. But I imagine that as they get older they're assigned their own rooms.
I always write Jedi rooms as having their own fresher. No communal bathrooms in living areas of the Temple for me. Mostly for the same reason I imagine single rooms; it's much easier to handle the diversity of gender/species/whatever by just assigning everyone their own private space.
But there must be freshers in the other parts of the Temple, too. Where people eat or meet, just convenience. I would expect those to be nice.
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Alexis_Wingstar
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
2/12 8:28pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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ardavenport posted:
Off-hand, I don't think anyone does their own washing/dusting/cleaning/whatever on Coruscant, whether they're Jedi or not. That's what they have droids for. I suppose at night, huge zamboni-like machines cruise the hallways of the Temple keeping them polished. So, while the Jedi lifestyle would be very spartan as far as possessions go, they would still have all the other conveniences of life in the GFFA.
Ah, but if they have droids and machines to do the cleaning and dusting, that limits the discipline masters can give wayward padawans!
"You have to clean the refresher for a month for that, Anakin."
"But master, how can I when the droids do it automatically?"
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"Change. It can be good. It can be bad. It can be expected or come as a thief in the night. Invited or not, it always comes."
~Koria
"Tender Shadows", co-written w/ The Musical Jedi
Padawan to DarthIshtar
Failed member of CA (Challengeholics Anonymous)
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Jinngerbread
Registered:
Sep '07
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Date Posted:
2/12 8:31pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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Alexis_Wingstar posted:
ardavenport posted:
Off-hand, I don't think anyone does their own washing/dusting/cleaning/whatever on Coruscant, whether they're Jedi or not. That's what they have droids for. I suppose at night, huge zamboni-like machines cruise the hallways of the Temple keeping them polished. So, while the Jedi lifestyle would be very spartan as far as possessions go, they would still have all the other conveniences of life in the GFFA.
Ah, but if they have droids and machines to do the cleaning and dusting, that limits the discipline masters can give wayward padawans!
"You have to clean the refresher for a month for that, Anakin."
"But master, how can I when the droids do it automatically?"
My father's answer to that question would've been handing me a toothbrush I'm sure Obi-Wan can do the same for Anakin 
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
2/12 9:11pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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Ooooooooh, but I never picture Jedi using manual labor as punishment. They would use something much more tailored to whatever the offense was. Physical punishments are too easy to blow off once they're done. And since Jedi train their students to master their fear, then fear of a punishment wouldn't keep them in line anyway.
Padawan not studying, lying? disobeying? I think those would be handled with direct confrontation and intervention, with heavy emphasis on learning why they had to change their ways. Probably with some serious peer pressure thrown in, but with a hint of a reward of approval if the problem behavior is stopped. And the intervention wouldn't be considered done until it produced results, too.
The one-on-one arrangement with master and padawan means that the apprentices have a lot less room for getting into trouble, especially when they're younger.
But I suppose that if droids do clean everything on Coruscant, then where would Jedi learn to clean anything other than themselves? Or cook? I don't think that their education would be complete without those skills. Hmmmmm, those would be interesting classes indeed.
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Independence1776
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
2/13 10:20am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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As far as living quarters go, I've usually pictured dormitory style for the younger kids, maybe single or double occupancy for the older initiates. Like some others here, I've always thought Master and Padawan teams had a two-bedroom apartment with a kitchen, and that Masters without Padawans had a one-bedroom or studio. I also think that they would be decorated however the individual Jedi wanted. Just look at the Temple itself- large and spacious (itself a luxery on Coruscant), elegent, with statues and tile decorations everywhere. The Jedi may live simply, but they have the best in what they do have. As long as the individual Jedi didn't go overboard, or become too attached to their belongings, I don't really see the Council having too many restrictions on what an individual Jedi can have in their own space.
My reasoning for the Master-Padawan apartment is simple. Most learning really doesn't happen in the classroom. It happens during daily life, by example from those closest to you. Padawans will learn best when they see their Masters practise Jedi behavior all the time, even behind closed doors. I don't see much difference between how a Jedi acts in public or in private. (In fact, I think that if there's a disconnect there, it's a sign that the Jedi may need help.) If a Padawan doesn't live with his Master, there isn't much room to inforce meditation immediately upon waking, or discipline for getting needed activities done (remember, they're teenagers), correction for misbehavior, or simply, trust. It's much harder to trust someone if you don't spend time with them, and since the vast majority of Jedi risk their lives and have to rely on their Padawans to do the right thing at the right time, it needs to be built. Furthermore, if a Padawan needs advice, he shouldn't have to travel all over the Temple looking for his master. He needs to be available, even and especially at the odd hours of the night. Using the comm system and leaving messages just don't cut it. Finally, on missions, it would be very hard to adjust to a new planet, culture, etc. and also have to learn to live with another person, either older or younger, both with their own set of routines that could very well clash. It's much easier to do it ahead of time, adjusting to life together at the Temple than on a mission which may well have diplomatic or lethal repurcussions if something goes wrong.
As for punishment, I think it would depend on the exact circumstances and the punishment would be taylored to fit the Padawan. It could include cleaning or phyiscal activity, more studies, etc., as well as meditation on why that activity was wrong. It would depend entirely on the personality of the person, not on what happened. (Though I do think there are some activites, like fighting, that would have a more universal punishment.)
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
2/13 5:00pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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I hadn't really thought of it before, but it seems to me that single rooms for masters and padawans would reinforce the 'no attachments' rule for Jedi. But I also think that padawan and master would spend most of their time together and having their rooms in separate places would not be a barrier to that, though I assume that the padawan's room would be close to wherever the master's was.
I think I also lean toward single rooms because I don't want to write Jedi cooking and washing dishes in the Temple. In that setting, I just want droids to do it.
Anakin explicitly says in ATOC that possessions are forbidden to a Jedi, but obviously there have to be limits. If Jedi had no possessions at all they would walk around naked with no lightsabers. I suppose the loophole to that rule is that the Jedi Order legally owns everything. So, the Jedi is forbidden possessions, but the Order has quite a lot. Their rooms would have some standard furnishings, but decoration could be added depending on the occupant's taste, within reason. Informally, I think of the 'no possessions' rule is not being applied to their lightsabers or anything a Jedi uses day to day or very small things that a person could carry. But I would suppose that a Jedi would be expected to accept losing everything and move on if there was a need for it.
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Alexis_Wingstar
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
2/14 8:20am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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I don't care if they are raised jedi, young padawans would get into too much trouble if they had their own room. Children are children no matter what... and young teenagers double that! Plus, if there were truly 'no attachments' there would be no master/padawan bonds. You can't have a bond and absolutely no attachment.
I can't imagine Jedi being lazy and having droids do their cooking and cleaning for them.
I agree with you on what you said about possessions though.
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"Change. It can be good. It can be bad. It can be expected or come as a thief in the night. Invited or not, it always comes."
~Koria
"Tender Shadows", co-written w/ The Musical Jedi
Padawan to DarthIshtar
Failed member of CA (Challengeholics Anonymous)
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leiamoody
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
2/14 11:57am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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ardavenport posted:
Anakin explicitly says in ATOC that possessions are forbidden to a Jedi, but obviously there have to be limits.
To what degree do you think this prohibition would be carried? Would there be no personal effects allowed on their person or in their rooms? I wonder how that might fit with the EU, where the Corellian Jedi are bestowed the Jedi Credits after they reach the Knighthood. There's also a tiny mention of signet rings awarded to padawans in Rogue Planet. I suppose those aren't what the Order would consider to be flashy tokens, but those still speak of certain levels of achievement that don't quite seem to fit with what the Jedi are supposed to stand for.
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Jinngerbread
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Sep '07
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Date Posted:
2/14 12:47pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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He might have meant possession as in attachment type possession, like what he was having with Padme, not necessarily physical possessions. They were talking about Love there, so it's hard to make that argument that they have no possessions at all, taken in context. I find it hard to believe that the Jedi would not allow their own personal space, especially given how grand the Temple interior was. The Jedi decorated with style with those massive columns and beautiful carpet. For the most part, I have Master/Padawan apartments. Knights can have their own space, and Initiates generally share rooms with one or two others.
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
2/14 9:02pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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I don't really think of the Jedi using droids to do their cooking and cleaning as being lazy. It just allows them to work full time on being Jedi, training, meditating, studying, lightsaber stuff, missions, whatever. And I actively look for places to put droids in my fics; that makes them feel more Star Wars-y to me. Whenever I send anyone to the med-center they're by droids, too, since that's what you see in the films.
I don't know HOW to fit the pre-prequel EU stuff into what we got about prequel Jedi. So, I don't even try. I really don't know what distinguishes a Correllian; they look just like everyone else and the whole Correllian Jedi thing doesn't really match up with the prequel.
I make the assumption that possessions are allowed if they're something you can wear and/or conveniently carry, and especially if it's something useful. I don't know if Jedi would have rings. The clearly allow some personal adornment, but I would think that a ring would be uncomfortable to wear while lightsaber fighting and no one would want to stop to take that off.
And I agree the Jedi Temple is quite grand, though not overdone. But the furnishings in it are very minimal, so I picture that for the private rooms as well. I think that the grand, open spaces are public and the smaller intimate ones are private, though I always picture the living spaces with high ceilings.
When Anakin is talking about love with Padme, he's just trying to work his way around the rules. If he's not allowed to have attachments, then Anakin will just re-define what an attachment is. 
But I think it's really interesting that an educated senator like Amidala thought that Jedi were forbidden to love. That says a lot to me about what their public reputation is, that their personal lives are very minimal and disciplined.
And I agree that the Jedi have to have some kind of attachments, since without them they would never be able to keep the Order together. I suppose for things like that they would define 'no attachments' as being able to let go of something.
So, to still be Jedi, Obi-Wan and Yoda would have expected themselves to let go of the old Jedi Order and move on. I suppose they had to in exile, but think it probably took a few years. Even for Yoda.
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leiamoody
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
2/14 10:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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Going off-topic ...how would the "no attachment" policy be handled in a post-ROTJ New Jedi Order (setting aside the EU here)? It's fairly obvious that Luke would be unlikely to enforce the policy for himself or any of the latter-day padawans. It's not out of the realm of possibility that some students might decide to pursue this path as a means to improving their connection with the Force, even going so far as to be celibate.
For me, the Old Order's view of love was peculiar. Passionate attachment was forbidden, but they didn't have a specific prohibition against having physical relations (not with each other, I guess). Wouldn't it seem slightly obvious to the masters that it's difficult to have sex without forming some kind of attachment to someone at some point?
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
2/15 4:19am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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I always thought that no possessions meant just that. I was thinking more that they were given their clothing (they did have some choice) but it wasn't really 'theirs' per se. Same with furnishings and decorations. Nothing that they could claim to be theirs alone. Of course, that idea went out the window with AOTC when the Jedi appeared to have specific clothing from their homeworlds.
The only true thing that could be considered possessions would be the lightsabers. I know Qui-Gon had a rock but he wasn't that possessive of it if he gave it to Obi-Wan.
I also always thought of their rooms as minimal - enough to see to their needs but little else. Their focus didn't seem to be on 'their' comfort but toward others. I could even see the possibility that their rooms were more like hotel rooms in that each time they returned they were given a different room depending on availability.
leiamoody - some time ago there was a discussion about this very topic. Some people claimed that you can have sex without any kind of attachment, that it's a biological function. I don't see it but that's just me. Perhaps they can have sex as long as they let go of their attachments afterwards.
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
2/15 8:12pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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leiamoody: therre's no telling how the 'no attachments' clause would be handled post-ROTJ. Luke had one sentence of instruction form Yoda about reviving the Jedi Order, 'Pass on what you have learned.' Presumably that means that Luke is make all the decisions.
Luke has positive proof that attachments can be big trouble. Vader lured him to Bespin just by capturing Leia, Han and Chewie. Even on the other end of the galaxy Luke could tell they were being. Perhaps this is one reason that the 'no attachments' rule evolved? Jedi with emotional attachments are vulnerable through the people they love. And if Jedi are committed to upholding justice, then that kind of occupation invites enemies to come after you.
But Luke will likely have to train adults in the Force. They will have attachments, so they're going to have to work things out.
dianethx: The 'hotel' concept is interesting for the Jedi Temple. That would absolutely enforce the 'no possessions' rule, since they have to carry everything they have.
I'm more inclined toward Jedi staying in fixed place, just to save everybody the trouble of finding people. If everyone was in a different room all the time, looking for them would be annoying.
And I don't know how anyone has sexual relations without having some kind of emotional attachments anymore that you can have a one-on-one teacher/apprentice relationship for years without any kind of attachment either. But I'm absolutely sure that the Jedi would NOT forbid sexual relationships. Celibacy is not one-size-fits-all. I'm sure that physical relationships are discouraged because they often lead to strong emotional attachments, but not because of the sex.
Perhaps a relationship is not considered an 'attachment' if the parties are willing to part and let go of it? When a padawan is knighted are the former master and padawan expected to spend time apart to prove that they are not attached to each other?
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
2/16 9:49am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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ardavenport posted:
Perhaps a relationship is not considered an 'attachment' if the parties are willing to part and let go of it? When a padawan is knighted are the former master and padawan expected to spend time apart to prove that they are not attached to each other?
I would think that they would send out the padawan on his/her/its own after knighting. However, we don't see that in ROTS since obviously Obi-Wan and Anakin do missions together a lot.... unless they still aren't sure about Anakin and want Obi to keep an eye on him. We'll probably find out more in the new Clone Wars movie. Maybe even see more of the Temple - I hope.
As for finding someone whose room keeps changing, maybe their commlinks have a come hither button or a GPS system so they just have to say the person's name and they'll get a signal as to their location. It's all speculation.
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