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Topic:
The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread - Jedi Quotes
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
3/20 8:48pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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Darthbane2007 posted:
Now this may conflict with what you all's ideas of what goes into the temple, so this is just my opinion.
I think that there are different interpretations for the Jedi Temple for everyone. I generally preface mine with the disclaimer that it is the interpretation that I use in my fics. That's what they're all for.
Generally, the real reason for me wanting to map out the Jedi Temple is that it just makes it easier for me to write a fic. Even if I never have any scenes with Obi-Wan going down the hall to the utility room to find the droid to fix the drain in his fresher, it's easier for me to work out what the characters are going to do or say if I've filled in the environment around them.
I like the idea of the Jedi Temple being a "small city". The Jedi do seem to be somewhat self-contained. This would have to be the case with a lot of large buildings on Coruscant anyway. If the whole planet is city then some parts of it have to be devoted to maintaining/recycling/renewing air/water/solids in the environment.
Independence1776 posted:
So, in other words, the Jedi are feds? laugh *whacks away plot bunny*
Oh, that plot bunny has already reproduced since someone did write a SW/X-Files crossover with Mulder as a Jedi.
But I don't think of the Jedi as being like the FBI since I think the Republic already has some law enforcement department. The Jedi seem to be able to operate at high diplomatic levels, but also law enforcement as well. On top of all that they're a religious organization; that was established in the first movie when Tarkin told Vader, "You are all that is left of their religion." That makes their status very odd indeed.
I suppose for budgetary purposes, the Jedi are a 'special project'? Or possibly contractors under the Supreme Chancellor? One notable thing about the Jedi Order is that it pre-dates the Republic. So, whatever they are, they're a very entrenched in whatever niche the occupy with the Republic government.
dianethx posted:
According to starwars.com
In the final era of the Republic, the Jedi Knights operated out of the Judicial Department, under the office of Supreme Chancellor.
However, starwars.com had changed it because I distinctly remember it saying that it was part of the Judicial Dept. a couple of years back when I was researching for one of my stories. After all, they can't operate out of thin air. They need funding and some kind of legal standing in order to do the things they were doing.
You mean someone is actually revising that stuff?  
Really, it seems to me sometimes that they just throw things up there and forget about them.
I guess I have trouble with thinking of the Jedi as a 'part' of any government department in the Republic anyway. It really looks like they have more autonomy than that.
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LadyLunas
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
3/20 9:24pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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ardavenport posted:
dianethx posted:
According to starwars.com
In the final era of the Republic, the Jedi Knights operated out of the Judicial Department, under the office of Supreme Chancellor.
However, starwars.com had changed it because I distinctly remember it saying that it was part of the Judicial Dept. a couple of years back when I was researching for one of my stories. After all, they can't operate out of thin air. They need funding and some kind of legal standing in order to do the things they were doing.
I guess I have trouble with thinking of the Jedi as a 'part' of any government department in the Republic anyway. It really looks like they have more autonomy than that.
I remember reading that as well, dianethx! And I also seem to remember it in one of the prequel books, but I can't remember which one.
As for Jedi autonomy, since the Order does predate the Republic, I usually assume that there's something in the Republic Constitution that allows for the kind of things the Order does. Following that line of thought, the Senate "reformed" the Republic after Ruusan, and therefore changed how the Order was allowed to operate. People feared the powers of the Jedi, and wanted to bring it under closer regulation.
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
3/21 5:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
- Date Edited:
3/21 5:45pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Darthbane2007
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I assume that there is some sort of contract or something within the republic's constitution that allows for the Jedi to operate: for helping to provide insight and help with interplanetary matters, the Jedi are allowed to have their Temple on coruscant, as well as have all those amenities we see. Because, I'm pretty sure that they have the most extensive archives in the galaxy, as well as some of the most advanced technology the galaxy has ever seen.
Think of it like our own Military and other federal agencies: Every year, the US approves a budget for them every year, and in return, they provide defense for our country by using that money on computer systems, vehicles like Tanks and Fighter Jets and cruisers, among other things.
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Independence1776
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
3/21 7:08pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread -- What's in a Temple?
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Darthbane2007 posted:
Think of it like our own Military and other federal agencies: Every year, the US approves a budget for them every year, and in return, they provide defense for our country by using that money on computer systems, vehicles like Tanks and Fighter Jets and cruisers, among other things.
This is more of what I was going for with the "Jedi as feds" thing. Special project sounds like a very good classification.
Furthermore, the GFFA's government is not ours. Different "agencies" may very well have more leeway than their equivelant here. Secondly, the Jedi are pretty much considered to be uncorruptable (in the political sense), so they may not have (or need) as much oversight. They are odd, and it's hard to talk about them being a part of the government because they don't fit into our Earth-concieved boundaries.
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 "Independence forever." John Adams Padawan to Luna_Nightshade Fics in bio Ever wondered what would happen if some normal students came to the Temple? Come find out: http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/27996678
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The_Jedi_Index
Registered:
May '06
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Date Posted:
3/23 10:45am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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I agree, special projects sound like the right classification for the Jedi, whatever that is.
Since the conversation has shifted on its own I thought I'd make it official.........so how do the Jedi support themselves?
Individual Jedi are forbidden attachments and possessions, but the Jedi Order obviously has the keep things running. How do they do it? And what does the Jedi Code say about what possessions the Jedi Order may have?
Obviously, the Jedi and the Temple are supported by the Senate in the old Republic. And are supplied with all the necessities they need for upholding justice in the galaxy. My guess is that the Jedi are very cost-effective compared to the usual law enforcement options and they are basically limited to the number of Force-sensitive candidates they can get.
It is likely that the relationship between the Jedi and the Republic is in the constitution, but is there something in the Jedi Code that says that the Order has to have something in writing about their relationship with any body that supports them?
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
3/23 4:10pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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The_Jedi_Index posted:
I agree, special projects sound like the right classification for the Jedi, whatever that is.
Since the conversation has shifted on its own I thought I'd make it official.........so how do the Jedi support themselves?
Individual Jedi are forbidden attachments and possessions, but the Jedi Order obviously has the keep things running. How do they do it? And what does the Jedi Code say about what possessions the Jedi Order may have?
Obviously, the Jedi and the Temple are supported by the Senate in the old Republic. And are supplied with all the necessities they need for upholding justice in the galaxy. My guess is that the Jedi are very cost-effective compared to the usual law enforcement options and they are basically limited to the number of Force-sensitive candidates they can get.
It is likely that the relationship between the Jedi and the Republic is in the constitution, but is there something in the Jedi Code that says that the Order has to have something in writing about their relationship with any body that supports them?
I assume that before the whole Ruusan conflict, Jedi had much more free reign than the Jedi of 1000 BBY to 19 BBY. They had families and relationships. Also, they got potential Jedi anyway they could, not just from getting them in infant stage. They actually fought in wars and defended the republic however they could. They also probably possesses many more things.
After Ruusan however, the Jedi did a complete 360. No longer did they have attachments/relationships except for teacher/student. No longer did they recruit from multiple sources; unless you were an infant and possessed a high midichlorian count, then a Jedi you will never be. They disbaned their armies and did many other things as well.
Now, I assume that the senate decided to keep them as peacekeepers, and they agreed on a few things; Stop Intergalactic conflicts from turning into full scale wars, and we'll (the Senate) will give you a high position in the senate as a advisory board, and we'll also help pay for your temple and other facilities.
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JadeSolo
Title: NSF managing NSWFF
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/23 4:36pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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I'll tell you who's funding the Jedi lifestyle - the taxpayers!! And it all goes into that cushy palace those wizards live in, with their fancy glowsticks and droids and three square meals a day and fountains and gardens. Hmph.
Seriously - the Jedi may live very simple lives, with few possessions and attachments, and lives of suffering and whatnot, but they live in a palace. They don't get directly paid by the people they help, so the money has to come from somewhere (the Republic). They get basic food and shelter and clothing, which I imagine is more than most folks on Coruscant get. I've always wondered how the Jedi dealt with that kind of apparent hypocrasy. Maybe the harsh rules make up for the awesome crib?
Clearly, I am unbiased on this matter.
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
3/23 4:50pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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JadeSolo posted:
I'll tell you who's funding the Jedi lifestyle - the taxpayers!! And it all goes into that cushy palace those wizards live in, with their fancy glowsticks and droids and three square meals a day and fountains and gardens. Hmph.
Seriously - the Jedi may live very simple lives, with few possessions and attachments, and lives of suffering and whatnot, but they live in a palace. They don't get directly paid by the people they help, so the money has to come from somewhere (the Republic). They get basic food and shelter and clothing, which I imagine is more than most folks on Coruscant get. I've always wondered how the Jedi dealt with that kind of apparent hypocrasy. Maybe the harsh rules make up for the awesome crib?
Clearly, I am unbiased on this matter.
And not to mention that they have the most advanced computers and complete archives in the galaxy.
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
3/23 5:03pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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I'm with Jade. They live simply but in a palace. They get free food, clothing, shelter while others have to scramble for a living. I can certainly understand the people resenting the Jedi. From a distance, it looks like ivory tower wizards who have the good life. Yes, they lay their lives on the line but so do a lot of others without the same payback.
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Independence1776
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
3/23 6:22pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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I'm actually considering writing a fic about this very topic, from a citizen's POV. (It's actually the ploy bunny I mentioned earlier. It just won't go away.)
Of course, the Jedi rebuttal is: we live as simply as possible, but we need the information and space to properly train and be prepared for the mission.
The truth is probably in between. Yes, the Jedi need training space. But do they really need a huge entryway that just serves to waste space? Do they really need all those statues or huge windows or tiled floors? Do they really need an interior garden with a ton of fountains? Probably not. They have the best of everything, but profess to need little. There is a definite bit of hypocrasy there. The only people they have to justify it to is the Senate, during a budget review, and all they have to do is point to their mission track record. It probably ends the discussion right there, if there was even one in the first place.
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"Independence forever." John Adams Padawan to Luna_Nightshade Fics in bio Ever wondered what would happen if some normal students came to the Temple? Come find out: http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/27996678
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
3/23 7:05pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
- Date Edited:
3/23 7:08pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
ardavenport
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JadeSolo posted:
I'll tell you who's funding the Jedi lifestyle - the taxpayers!! And it all goes into that cushy palace those wizards live in, with their fancy glowsticks and droids and three square meals a day and fountains and gardens. Hmph.
I'll take the Jedi side then. 
1) They draw the members of the Order from all classes and species, so there is going to be sympathy for Jedi from all sectors of society.
2) There aren't very many Jedi, so the most anyone ever even hears about them is in news holos where they're doing heroic good things like capturing space pirates or defeating tyrants on small moons.
3) Large as the costs of Jedi Temple might be, I'll bet it's a fraction of what those over-dressed, over-fed senators spend next door. Ships and equipment and archives are at least practical things that can be seen in action every time a Jedi does a good deed. High class dinners and sundry other luxuries at the senate would get so much more attention, the Jedi Temple is probably a small item on the Republic budget.
4) Jedi also look modest, have a reputation for being incorruptible, but still have a great cool factor with special powers and lightsabers.
EDIT: I've pondered Obi-Wan comparing his life on Tatooine with his life as a Jedi and realizing how good he had it even though he had no possessions then and on Tatooine he apparently has his hut and all kinds of other stuff. Not needed to have possessions is a stupendous luxury that many might not recognize -- including Republic taxpayers.
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
3/23 7:33pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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Ah, but if the Jedi look so modest, people might be suspicious that they are just trying to hide something...
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
3/23 8:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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That air of mystery that the Jedi have can work for them (making them more attractive) or against them (making them look more suspicious). But the Jedi would have their supporters in the Senate, and it would probably be easy to defend the expense for them by pointing out that there are more caterers working for the Senate than there are Jedi in the Temple or a similar budgetary comparisons.
Compared to other items in a galactic budget the Jedi are probably a relatively small one. My guess is that they also have very good cost controls and their budget doesn't increase any faster than inflation (except when the Republic is at war and then everyone's expenses are out of whack anyway). And since the Jedi have been there from the beginning of the Republic, they'll be a pretty entrenched item in the budget.
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LadyLunas
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
3/23 10:11pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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Oh, I agree.
A fair portion of the budget would probably go to utilities (power, sewage, water, etc.). One could even stretch that to include food (Coruscant being what it is), even if the Jedi do try to make themselves as self-sufficient as possible. The other parts would be Temple upkeep, service to the small fleet of ships they have, and necessary goods (clothing, etc.). I don't think the Jedi would draw a salary, but they could possibly have a very small yearly stipend determined by rank.
There's probably also a section of the budget (either Senate or Jedi, haven't been able to figure out which) set aside to fund the missions. Qui-Gon had a credit amount issued to him in TPM. Probably the Republic, as the Jedi work under that name. But would that be from the Judicial Department budget, then? Or the Senate, as that's who the Order appears to be directly answering to in RotS.
As for suspicions of and about Jedi, I would think it varies planet to plant and person to person. Those people who have come in contact with Jedi, who have been affected positively in some manner, would be far more willing to accept them. People impacted negatively, as well as those who have only heard the stories, would be far more skeptical. It's all perspectives and prejudices. What is the truth?
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On hiatus from fanfic.
See profile for fics.
Padawan of SakuraTsukikage.
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
3/28 7:01am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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The Jedi must be living it up in the temple, eh?
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