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Topic:
The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread - What Do Jedi Eat?
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
4/29 8:17pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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I'm inclined to think that the Jedi keep the names their younglings are born with. Count Dooku and various others obviously have their family names and are publicly known by their family.
Custody battles are always tough, but what is this custody battle from??? There is no book or comic reference for it, just a web page. If it's AU then it's a matter of debate about whether the Jedi Council would actually make such a decision if the situation ever came up.
I would think that if the Jedi had a youngling for a short time and the previously unknown parent stepped forward to reclaim the child that they would surrender custody if the parent's identity could be verified.
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dreamshell
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/30 5:31am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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ardavenport posted:
Custody battles are always tough, but what is this custody battle from??? There is no book or comic reference for it, just a web page. If it's AU then it's a matter of debate about whether the Jedi Council would actually make such a decision if the situation ever came up.
If the situation... ever came up?  It's all fiction, though. I'm not one of those people who argues canon. It looks like it's considered as such, so I take it as such. Besides, this adds an interesting shade of gray to the Star Wars universe.
As for where it's from, it seems it was written up just for the HoloNet News site.
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
4/30 3:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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dreamshell posted:
If the situation... ever came up? It's all fiction, though. I'm not one of those people who argues canon. It looks like it's considered as such, so I take it as such. Besides, this adds an interesting shade of gray to the Star Wars universe.
As for where it's from, it seems it was written up just for the HoloNet News site.
The whole 'canon' issue is strictly for labeling for me. If the custody battle described were in one of the books or comics, and I wrote a fanfic that showed the Jedi contradicting this by returning a child to a previously unknown parent, then I might label my fic as 'AU', to show that I'm diverging from the sanctioned pro-fic that a lot of people might have read. But if the custody battle is just on the HoloNet news online then I wouldn't bother with putting 'AU' on my fic, since it would be another fanfic interpretation that adds no more or less complications to the GFFA than my fanfic does.
But the whole custody battle potential for the Jedi could be a huge complication for them. They replenish their numbers only by taking in and adopting very young children. What happens if:
- a parent gives a child to the Jedi and then changes their mind?
- a grandparent or other potential guardian objects to a child being given to the Jedi after the fact?
- a child from outside the Republic goes to the Jedi and that planet's government objects?
Now, the Jedi have been taking in children for a long time, so the precedent-setting court cases have probably already been settled a long time ago. And the Jedi very likely have the courts on their side. But that wouldn't stop people from publicly making noise about custody disputes.
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LadyLunas
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/30 3:31pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
- Date Edited:
4/30 3:40pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
LadyLunas
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ardavenport posted:
But the whole custody battle potential for the Jedi could be a huge complication for them. They replenish their numbers only by taking in and adopting very young children. What happens if:
- a parent gives a child to the Jedi and then changes their mind?
- a grandparent or other potential guardian objects to a child being given to the Jedi after the fact?
- a child from outside the Republic goes to the Jedi and that planet's government objects?
Now, the Jedi have been taking in children for a long time, so the precedent-setting court cases have probably already been settled a long time ago. And the Jedi very likely have the courts on their side. But that wouldn't stop people from publicly making noise about custody disputes.
I've actually thought a little about this - I don't have anything in canon to support this, so this is purely conjecture on my part.
When a parent or other legal guardian gives a child to the Order, I've always been of the mind that it is a full legal adoption, that the parent/guardian gives up all rights to the child. This authority is then granted to the Master when the child becomes a Padawan. There's probably forms and stuff that the family and the Order fills out and signs, as well performing whatever ritual is needed to make it legal from whatever culture the child is from. Parents, after the fact, would have to fight a legal battle to regain custody that they willingly gave up in the first place.
Potential guardians, as long as the parent is in his/her right mind, I do not believe should have any say in the issue, unless of course, it is part of their culture. Then it would be a family/clan/whatever issue and would be decided from there.
Out-Republic, the planet really couldn't object because it is, again, a family issue. And I do not believe, however tied to the Republic the Order may be, that the Jedi would not accept people from only Republic worlds. The Jedi Order has influence both in and out of the Republic, and works within both systems.
Which leads me to another, related, point. I hate the depictions of the Jedi has child-stealers. The Order would be firmly against that, as not only would kidnapping children (for that's what it would be) tarnish their moral authority, they would get in serious trouble with the law. The Order is strictly a volunteer-only order, as far as children can volunteer. That's where the parents come in. 
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dreamshell
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/30 6:26pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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LadyLunas posted:
Which leads me to another, related, point. I hate the depictions of the Jedi has child-stealers. The Order would be firmly against that, as not only would kidnapping children (for that's what it would be) tarnish their moral authority, they would get in serious trouble with the law. The Order is strictly a volunteer-only order, as far as children can volunteer. That's where the parents come in.
While I'm not quite condemning the Jedi as the Baba Yagas of the Galaxy, there is a certain moral ambiguity with how they recruit members. It's ironic, for instance, that Obi-Wan Kenobi says in Revenge of the Sith that he is loyal to democracy when his democratic rights were never allowed him in the case of choosing whether or not to join the Order... or so I'm assuming. Regardless, this is likely the case for some Jedi out there.
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
4/30 7:19pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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dreamshell posted:
While I'm not quite condemning the Jedi as the Baba Yagas of the Galaxy, there is a certain moral ambiguity with how they recruit members. It's ironic, for instance, that Obi-Wan Kenobi says in Revenge of the Sith that he is loyal to democracy when his democratic rights were never allowed him in the case of choosing whether or not to join the Order... or so I'm assuming. Regardless, this is likely the case for some Jedi out there.
Who has democratic rights as a baby? Basically, Jedi adoptions of children amounts to one family adopting children from other families.
The sticking point is how voluntary the adoption is for the family, not the children. The babies never have a say, but they don't have a say about who their original families are either.
My guess is that there is huge peer pressure to let children go to the Jedi. That is not entirely voluntary IMO, but I doubt that the Jedi are ever allowed to take any if a family refuses. Does the Republic compensate families in any way for it? That could be complicated.
We saw in TPM that if the Council doesn't think a child is suitable for training, like Anakin, that they will not take them no matter how high their midichlorine count is. I think that if a family really said no that the Jedi would accept that.
LadyLunas posted:
When a parent or other legal guardian gives a child to the Order, I've always been of the mind that it is a full legal adoption, that the parent/guardian gives up all rights to the child. This authority is then granted to the Master when the child becomes a Padawan. There's probably forms and stuff that the family and the Order fills out and signs, as well performing whatever ritual is needed to make it legal from whatever culture the child is from. Parents, after the fact, would have to fight a legal battle to regain custody that they willingly gave up in the first place.
Whoa, a master having to fill out forms to adopt a padawan. That could be quite amusing; GFFA forms could be quite complex. 
I sort of get around that issue by assuming in my fics that once an initiate becomes a padawan they are legally an adult in the Republic. That's a bit young I think, but Amidala was 14/15 when she was elected queen. So, I place the age of majority very young in the GFFA.
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Space_Wolf
Registered:
Mar '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 8:01am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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Things that Jedi would be forbidden to do:
- gambling (when not on duty)
- addictions
- collecting beer bottles
- collecting anything
- night-clubbing
- eating competitions
- selling anything
- blowing things up (again, when not on duty)
- pets (in terms of ownership)
Why am I getting plot bunnies with that list? 
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 10:13am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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I think that there would be some adoption papers that a Jedi would have to fill out in order to adopt a child.
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dreamshell
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/1 11:23am
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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ardavenport posted:
Who has democratic rights as a baby? Basically, Jedi adoptions of children amounts to one family adopting children from other families.
The sticking point is how voluntary the adoption is for the family, not the children. The babies never have a say, but they don't have a say about who their original families are either.
Your argument is a bit shaky to me. There's a difference between being born into a family and being handed over into an institution. The lives Jedi live after being given to the Order are highly specific ones and demand a certain discipline that forces them to deny themselves many commonplace enjoyments and activities the average Republic citizen can indulge in. Life is more a training process for them than it is a genuine life. They are raised in preparation for servitude, religious devotion, and to act as galactic peacekeepers, all of which I imagine is quite taxing.
ardavenport posted:
My guess is that there is huge peer pressure to let children go to the Jedi. That is not entirely voluntary IMO, but I doubt that the Jedi are ever allowed to take any if a family refuses. Does the Republic compensate families in any way for it? That could be complicated.
This I agree with. I am also curious about whether or not families are somehow compensated. What is a Jedi youngling worth? 
ardavenport posted:
We saw in TPM that if the Council doesn't think a child is suitable for training, like Anakin, that they will not take them no matter how high their midichlorian count is. I think that if a family really said no that the Jedi would accept that.
The thing is, they did take Anakin. So who's to say there might not be other exceptions?
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 12:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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I don't think the Jedi "took" Anakin; Qui-Gon just did some legal manuvering.
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dreamshell
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/1 3:54pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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That's not what I meant by "take". I was referring to how ardavenport said the Order doesn't typically "take" (read: initiate) Force-sensitive individuals after a certain age, regardless of midichlorian count (which, in Anakin's case, was exceptional). I was pointing out that the Order decided to accept him in the end, anyway.
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"The Jedi... the Sith... you don't get it, do you? To the galaxy, they're the same thing; just men and women with too much power, squabbling over religion, while the rest of us burn." -- Atton Rand
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
5/1 4:28pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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Space_Wolf posted:
Things that Jedi would be forbidden to do:
- gambling (when not on duty)
- addictions
- collecting beer bottles
- collecting anything
- night-clubbing
- eating competitions
- selling anything
- blowing things up (again, when not on duty)
- pets (in terms of ownership)
Why am I getting plot bunnies with that list?
Aaaaaaaaaaah, but that's the whole point of defining the limitations of Jedi (or other characters). Once you have the boundaries of what they're supposed to do and NOT do, then you know where the conflict might be and, if the story goes there, trouble for the characters.
Of course, one can go a bit far afield. There really is an infinite list of things that Jedi are probably not supposed to do that could include:
- clipping toenails on top of the Temple
- finding out how many Jedi will fit in a lift (any species)
- sending any messages that include dead anything
- wearing advertising logos
- snapping rubber bands (when not on duty)
- graffiti
- using the Force to fling dirty socks into the dirty clothes receptacle
Actually, that last one might be permitted. Obi-Wan very casually used the Force to retrieve his star map in ATOC, so I suppose some minor uses are fine. Though I don't know why Anakin retrieving fruit at the dinner table would bug Obi-Wan. Maybe that has more to do with table manners than unacceptable uses of the Force.
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Persephone_Kore
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
5/1 4:42pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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I thought the projected grumpiness about the fruit would probably be because Anakin was showing off. 
I figure Jedi would be okay with finding out how many of them could fit in an elevator as long as they were not interering with the use of the elevator by people who were actually trying to get somewhere. Alarming people by suddenly and unnecessarily presenting them with an elevator stuffed to the gills with Jedi might also be frowned upon, although if it happened I'm sure the Jedi in question would be supposed to respond with polite aplomb and explain that there was no cause for alarm.
And get out of the way already.
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Independence1776
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
5/1 7:09pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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In response to a slightly earlier point: Zett Jukassa was apparently born Warpoc Skamini. I don't know why the Jedi changed his name, but apparently it does happen.
Children-taking: I agree that it's probably some form of adoption.
I do have to say the image of Jedi packed into an elevator made me burst out laughing.
As for casual uses of the Force, while I can see why it might not be encouraged, I can also see why it might be. The more you practise something, the better you can do it. With telekinesis, the more control, the better- else things could turn deadly. With younglings, on the other hand, I think it would be strictly monitored since they are so young. Furthermore, I think it varies master by master. In the USJS Normality thread, my character Tana uses telekinesis without a second thought because her master lets her, but the other padawans don't.
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
5/1 8:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread: Living in the Galaxy or Who Pays for All That?
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For some reason, the image of an elevator stuffed with Jedi is just hilarious!
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