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Topic:
The Underrated Story Index - New story up and I need MORE STORIES!
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Underrated_Index
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
7/4 11:01am
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - On 2 week hiatus
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Going on holiday now. For information, check the announcement on the first page.
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Got a struggling story? Feel underrated? Then swing by the Underrated Story Index! http://boards.theforce.net/fan_fiction_resource/b10304/28443523/p1/?8
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Underrated_Index
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
7/26 2:29am
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - On 2 week hiatus
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Ok, I've been back from my holiday for a week now but I haven't had time to visit this thread until now. I've got a lot of work right now, starting early and finishing late so I haven't really got the time I need to run this thread. I'm also going aborad again in two weeks time so that means that I most likely will not be able to run this thread properly for another month.
I would very much appreciate it if someone could take over the thread whilst I'm gone, seeing as it will be for quite some time...
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Got a struggling story? Feel underrated? Then swing by the Underrated Story Index! http://boards.theforce.net/fan_fiction_resource/b10304/28443523/p1/?8
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Underrated_Index
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
9/2 6:24am
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - On 2 week hiatus
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Ok, summer break is over. It proved much longer than I thought it would, so sorry for that.
Planning on getting this index up and running again to the weekend. So yeah, let's get back to business!
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Got a struggling story? Feel underrated? Then swing by the Underrated Story Index! http://boards.theforce.net/fan_fiction_resource/b10304/28443523/p1/?8
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Underrated_Index
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
9/8 2:45am
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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I'm pretty sure it's still the weekend somewhere 
Ok, we're back in business! There's a new featured story up, so check that one out. Keep sending in your underrated stories so that we can seriously expand this index!
Let's get this thread kicking too. Maybe a new discussion topic, perhaps?
How to attract readers? Do you have any special tricks? If so, what are they?
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Katana_Geldar
Title: Former CR Tasmania, AU
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
9/8 6:16am
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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I post viggies and I used to advertise in my more popular fics, also reading other peoples fics.
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Underrated_Index
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
9/12 10:22am
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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Katana_Geldar posted:
I post viggies and I used to advertise in my more popular fics, also reading other peoples fics.
Yes, these are all very good. I have never tried to advertise in my more popular fics, but that's because I write one at a time. But viggies are a good (and short) way of showcasing. Reading other people's fics is perhaps the best and the corner-stone of this community. If you leave good and interesting comments, it might lead to other people checking out your work.
Perhaps the worst ways of trying to attract readers is to write "Please read" in your thread title, which sounds too desperate or holding back updates until you reached the desired readership. This isn't so much attracting readers than forcing them to your story
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madman007
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
9/12 1:21pm
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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Perhaps the worst ways of trying to attract readers is to write "Please read" in your thread title, which sounds too desperate or holding back updates until you reached the desired readership. This isn't so much attracting readers than forcing them to your story.
"Please read" or "I need to know if I should continue this" is the two worst ways to start off your ad to your fic. The latter is basically the reader relying on us readers to decide if the story goes further. That should be up to the writer regardless of it having one review or twenty.
Reviewing other stories helps greatly, but you have to put some thought into the review to show you really understand the author's words. You can't just review with, "Great job." or "Awesome story. Please continue!". The author wants to know why it was such a great job or why they should continue.
I also found another way to subliminally advertise your story is to put the link to the story in your signature. *See below to mine for Exhibit A. If there's not enough space there, then put the links in your profile.
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Now starting my new epic Traits Of Descent - A mysterious vigillante is murdering former Black Sun members http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=28968173&brd=10476&start=29053268 "They'll probably miss you and hit me." Paul Newman 1925 - 2008
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Danaan
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
9/12 3:33pm
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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madman007 posted:
Perhaps the worst ways of trying to attract readers is to write "Please read" in your thread title, which sounds too desperate or holding back updates until you reached the desired readership. This isn't so much attracting readers than forcing them to your story.
"Please read" or "I need to know if I should continue this" is the two worst ways to start off your ad to your fic. The latter is basically the reader relying on us readers to decide if the story goes further. That should be up to the writer regardless of it having one review or twenty.
Reviewing other stories helps greatly, but you have to put some thought into the review to show you really understand the author's words. You can't just review with, "Great job." or "Awesome story. Please continue!". The author wants to know why it was such a great job or why they should continue.
I also found another way to subliminally advertise your story is to put the link to the story in your signature. *See below to mine for Exhibit A. If there's not enough space there, then put the links in your profile.
With all due respect for all veterans and old hands on this board, but as a total n00b here, I have to say I see very little in the way of constructive criticism on this board, at least in the stories I've read (admittedly not many) so far.
Sure, some people do make comments on the exact part of the story they love - as in a character, a plot twist, a description - that struck them as particularly good. But I've never seen anyone actually critiquing some one else in the way of "if you would have done like this, your story's literary qualities would have improved greatly".
Now, I realize why people would refrain from that, it does not necessarily come across as very courteous - someone might take critique against a lovechild very personal, and you certainly should expect to get back what you dish out.
But seriously, how can you expect to develop as a writer without being trashed (in a constructive fashion) every once in a while. This is speaking from my own experience - as a social scientist, I write professionally, albeit not prose. But if my teachers, mentors and supervisors had not regularly trashed my early (and later ;P) work when it deserved it, my papers would certainly be much worse than they are.
Again - this is just my impressions as a n00b and I certainly don't mean to offend the established culture here or anything. I'm just curious based on my own experience of what it takes to be a good writer, which I assume is what everybody here wants to become...
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Star Wars Episode 1: The Old Order - novellized on request (In progress) http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=29250109&brd=10476
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The_Face
Title: Fan Fic Manager, now with more real butter flavor
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
9/12 3:47pm
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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The fanfic boards operate on a rule whereby constructive criticism is only allowable if requested by the author. So if someone wants to hear nothing but positive things in their readers' responses, that's their perogative. And if they want the risk and the benefit of concrit, they are welcome to request it.
Is that the right way to do things? Maybe, maybe not. But I think it's one of the things that differentiates TF.N. It's a reason many people choose to post their work here. Probably a reason not to post their work here for some people.
I must admit, even when it's requested, it isn't terribly common here. I think it's (1) just the general attitude of the boards, (2) a lot of people are used to only putting positive comments in and are creatures of habit, and (3) concrit can be hard. A review that not only points out the flaws of a story, but does it in a way that doesn't attack the author but does help him/her become better - that takes time to craft. Well, I speak for myself. There are those who could crank out helpful concrit in a moment. They are what we call awesome. 
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madman007
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
9/12 3:54pm
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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Danaan posted:
Sure, some people do make comments on the exact part of the story they love - as in a character, a plot twist, a description - that struck them as particularly good. But I've never seen anyone actually critiquing some one else in the way of "if you would have done like this, your story's literary qualities would have improved greatly".
Now, I realize why people would refrain from that, it does not necessarily come across as very courteous - someone might take critique against a lovechild very personal, and you certainly should expect to get back what you dish out.
But seriously, how can you expect to develop as a writer without being trashed (in a constructive fashion) every once in a while. This is speaking from my own experience - as a social scientist, I write professionally, albeit not prose. But if my teachers, mentors and supervisors had not regularly trashed my early (and later ;P) work when it deserved it, my papers would certainly be much worse than they are.
Again - this is just my impressions as a n00b and I certainly don't mean to offend the established culture here or anything. I'm just curious based on my own experience of what it takes to be a good writer, which I assume is what everybody here wants to become...
I see where you're coming from and I know what you mean. I have been on this board a year in August and I have still yet to see an in depth critique or review. What the stories usually get in the direct posts is constant praise. And as a writer, I know from expreience that isn't the best way to grow as a writer.
BUT, Danaan, with all due respect and appreciation of your training, we're not exactly writing the Great All American Novel in here either. Sure, it would be nice if we could get some constructive criticism. Many moderators give it. But, there seems to be an unspoken fear of telling an author their mistakes in the posts. Even when I feel compelled to mention a criticism of a story, I will PM that author and not put it in the post with the reviews.
A good way to limit any bad reviews for a new or old author is to get a Beta reader to filter out mistakes in grammar, content, or continuity.
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Now starting my new epic Traits Of Descent - A mysterious vigillante is murdering former Black Sun members http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=28968173&brd=10476&start=29053268 "They'll probably miss you and hit me." Paul Newman 1925 - 2008
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Persephone_Kore
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
9/12 3:57pm
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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Actually, concrit encompasses comments on what did work well in the story and why. So technically, using an accurate definition of "constructive criticism," analytical positive comments are against the rules here. But I don't think that's ever really enforced.
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Katana_Geldar
Title: Former CR Tasmania, AU
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
9/12 6:31pm
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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Sure, some people do make comments on the exact part of the story they love - as in a character, a plot twist, a description - that struck them as particularly good. But I've never seen anyone actually critiquing some one else in the way of "if you would have done like this, your story's literary qualities would have improved greatly".
I have had these sort of comments, but only through PM. Also, trashing someone's fic is not nice. I've started to read fics on here that I didn't like, but I just didn't post.
 If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all
You also have to understand that writers are in different stages if development depending on how much they have written and how well they can critique their own work (in other words, be merciless). You don't tell a five year old off for not being able to spell omnipotent, do you? Well, I hope you don't.
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Danaan
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
9/12 6:45pm
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
- Date Edited:
9/12 6:52pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Danaan
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Fair enough. My point was merely this: if you are serious in your ambition to develop as a writer you need to know not only what you did well but, more importantly, what you did wrong. That's the point of the red ink on your paper when your prof returns it  . I.e. the prof isn't being mean to you, the prof helps you to develop. Anyone who's ever taken writing courses - professionally or an amateur writing evening course - will know what I mean.
But if the culture of this board is to not say anything if you can't say something nice, then that's fine - that just means that the board is not a writing school, which it doesn't have to be. It just helps me understand the community better. 
'Preciate the comments! 
Edit: I suppose the reason I thought of this originally was that many authors do explicitly state that they want comments on their work from their readers, and when I, as a writer and a teacher (assistant), read that, my first thought goes to constructive criticism - i.e. here's someone who wants to develop. But that's just where I'm coming from. So now you've all helped me understand the culture of the boards better, so I don't have to unintentionally aggravate anyone.
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Star Wars Episode 1: The Old Order - novellized on request (In progress) http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=29250109&brd=10476
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Katana_Geldar
Title: Former CR Tasmania, AU
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
9/12 6:46pm
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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It's easier to give negative comments in person than it is to give them on the Internet.
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Persephone_Kore
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
9/12 8:07pm
Subject:
RE: The Underrated Story Index - Back to the weekend
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...Do you mean easier to give negative comments in general, or easier to give them in a polite/effective/useful manner?
There are pros and cons to the policy. It's true that the option of giving constructive criticism -- or in general, your (politely!) honest opinion -- can be a good one. It can allow for reviews that are more useful to other readers, comments that are useful to the writer, and... well, it can avert the kind of paranoid moment I sometimes have here where I wonder if people hate the story and are not telling me because it's against the rules. And contrary to what I suspect is the widespread belief on this forum, people do have fun in such environments.
But you're correct -- this isn't a writing school. It is, perhaps, more like telling stories around a campfire -- the point is to entertain. Growing as a writer is some people's primary goal, but as far as the forum at large is concerned, growth and improvement as a writer is in service of the primary goal of entertaining oneself and each other, and sometimes in addition a by-product of it. One might want to get better at storytelling so as to get a better reaction at the campfire, or might be practicing there for one's stand-up comedy routine or something, but the atmosphere's very different from that of a public-speaking workshop. In this context, asking for comments (as opposed to explicitly asking for concrit) is... well, redundant, as it's sort of assumed you want some, but the aim is to encourage your readers to be an interactive or responsive audience rather than to act as your instructors.
While the two can coexist, there is a bit of a hazard if concrit is overemphasized in the mix (as opposed to being the primary purpose in itself, I suppose) -- some people would honestly rather focus on the positive and are here to play, even as readers. Only, some of them are also easy to guilt, or something. *g* You'll get readers who came in to read something enjoyable, but feel pressured to identify a problem before they can talk to the writers. In cases where the reader really isn't up for the job of critic, sometimes this ends in silence, or weird nitpicks, or feedback that reads, "I'm sorry to bother you just to tell you I enjoyed your story, but I couldn't find anything wrong with it." I actually hesitate to request concrit here because I don't want to create this sort of atmosphere or suggest that I only want to know problems, and discourage appreciation.
One of the hazards of the no-crit situation here is the possibility of blindness, or of major shock upon entering a venue that allows for a broader variety of feedback. I'm actually a little skeptical about the question of not growing as a writer without hearing what you did wrong -- it can certainly be useful, but there's also considerable growth and improvement that comes from maturity, more reading, and observation of what works on you and for other people. It'll probably be slower, and there are things you might not figure out, but it's not impossible to improve.
This forum is not, however, entirely devoid of opportunities to find out what you're doing wrong, even if you don't ask for it in the story threads. Many people arrange this in private, prior to publication, and call it beta-reading. You might get a narrower perspective than by asking publicly for concrit, but depending on the individuals involved, you can also get something much more intensive.
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