Jedi Council Forums - Swear Words in Star Wars

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Author	Topic: Swear Words in Star Wars
LadyMairead Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 10/13/02 9:33am Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars - Date Edited: 10/13/02 1:35pm (1 edits total) Edited By: LadyMairead
	In Balance Point Mara says "by all the star dragons ever spawned.." That's a phrase not a word, I know, so I'm not sure it counts, but I thought I'd post anyway. Also, in VoTF, Wedge says, "What in the name of Ackbar's aunt..." A phrase, again, I know. Sorry.
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Lt_Jaina_Solo Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 10/14/02 11:21am Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars
	LM- hiyas! anyways, phrases always work, so don't worry about it... the updated list! stang vapin' (by) Emperor's black bones blast(ed) blaster bolts Sith spit Sith spawn Sith blood bantha fodder poodoo shavit droyk krif / kriffing shavit hell damn sweet mother of a rancor spast son of a bantha fragg frakk festering (seven) sith hells seven hells of Corellia son of a Sith bantha poop nerf herder all nine Corellian hells fething stupid fragger gak Force-forsaken Vader ripped kuatchi hide by all the star dragons ever spawned What in the name of Ackbar's aunt also, if a swear has paranthesis in it, it means that it can be used with or without the word(s) in the paranthesis thank you everyone for contributing! please continue to contribute and help others out on the boards! -----signature----- Handmaiden Irelynné, Handmaiden of the Crest All links to stories in bio!
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JediGaladriel Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 10/15/02 4:13pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars - Date Edited: 10/15/02 4:28pm (1 edits total) Edited By: JediGaladriel
	Mod comments: I guess if it's in the books, it's okay. But I do want to check a few things. No, saying "Fruck" and "shet" don't fool anyone. They'll be treated as what they're replacing if I see them. User comments: Interesting that "fodder" in Huttese is used in the same tone in which we use a term for excrement. Could they even use the same word to describe both food and its detritus? And what does that say about the culture? All swearing comes from cultural taboos. A lot of our curse words involve excremental functions (we have an atavistic loathing of this, which is probably hardwired since it's dangerous), or about sex. Some older religious words dealing with sin are still curses, but minor ones (hell, damn). What does that say about our culture? What would another culture consider totally taboo, and how would that create new curses? I was the "Oh, gnostic!" person and I still hold by that. On the historical note, I wouldn't call someone who ticked me off a Nazi--I think that's as offensive as any bit of vulgarity out there. However, the complaint is more literary and obscure than that. The Sith were a kind of secret offshoot of the Jedi, and they are thought to be a thousand years extinct. A more reasonable comparison is to the gnostics, or the Eleusinians, or the Bacchae. Heck, even calling someone something more contemporary--Satanist or whatnot--would strike the ear as a bit odd. Let's 1000 years ago... weird sects... Flagellants? No, they were a bit later, black plague era. But when was the last time you heard someone drop a hammer on his foot and spit out, "Oh, flagellant blood!" I doubt the general galaxy ever knew anything about the Sith. They probably thought there was a brief civil war among the Jedi, in which some went bad and the rest got them under control. It would sow some long-term mistrust of the Jedi for producing them, but I doubt that the exact nature of the Sith Reformation would be of interest to anyone other than scholars.
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Kit' Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 10/15/02 5:28pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars - Date Edited: 10/15/02 5:32pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Kit'
	Galadriel - What about "You Philistine!" That's pretty ancient or even "You clumsy behemoth!" They are two examples of references to obscure, extinct, ancient groups (for the first) and a beast (for the second) found in the English language. Kithera -----signature----- Some people are like slinkies; Not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile as you push them down the stairs * Writers wanted.... http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/27996678
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Wilhelmina Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/15/02 6:49pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars - Date Edited: 10/15/02 7:01pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Wilhelmina
	What about "You Philistine!" That's pretty ancient or even "You clumsy behemoth!" They are two examples of references to obscure, extinct, ancient groups (for the first) and a beast (for the second) found in the English language. True, they're ancient, but they also both appear in the Bible (which was a popular current topic last time I checked), which probably accounts for their relatively common use today. If King David had written a psalm about flagellants, we'd likely hear that word more often, too. Just a thought. But I digress. I thought JG's point about fodder having the same connotation as excrement was really intriguing. English has a plethora of terms for excrement. Does Huttese have a comparable amount of words for fodder? Does Basic? That sounds like a fun brainstorming session, if I ever had the time. -----signature----- Questions about the Archive? Ask me! http://fanfic.theforce.net/
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JediGaladriel Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 10/15/02 7:17pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars - Date Edited: 10/15/02 7:19pm (1 edits total) Edited By: JediGaladriel
	See, that's a totally non-censorious reason I don't like Earth swear-words in SW fanfic. It's way too fun to figure out how the language might actually evolve in different cultures and what sorts of curses would actually evolve. Why go for the pedestrian (the actual meaning of "vulgar" is "common") when you can go all out and make it up from scratch? That's just a writing thing, though. On "Philistine" and "behemoth," they're used, but rarely, and not as curses. "Philistine" is maybe more common than "behemoth," but I don't ever remember hearing a bunch of sleazy guys on the corner yelling "Philistine!" at me.
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Kit' Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 10/15/02 7:36pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars - Date Edited: 10/15/02 7:40pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Kit'
	Diverging from the topic I know, but a grou of sleazy guys wouldn't yell "Philistine" at you unless you were doing something culturally appropriate for that word to be used. Philistine is used usually for someone who is destroying something or a person, who the person doing the name calling sees as having no cultural taste. So unless you were defacing a statue or something that equals that I wouldn't expect someone to call you a Philistine. It's also about cultural norms. I make up terms frequently in many of my fics - but I make sure that the characters have a good cultural background for using that term. For example, my character Tara spent most of her apprenticeship on a world where the dominant religion is polytheistic with different gods being responsible for different things. When Tara swears (which isn't often - it's not part of her personality) she normally swears by one of the gods. For example: "Oh by Terebith" Tara breathed, "Eighteen months!" Despite this debate I actually have to say that I like working out culturally appropriate terms (doesn't even have to be swear words - just terms). Hugs Kithera -----signature----- Some people are like slinkies; Not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile as you push them down the stairs * Writers wanted.... http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/27996678
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JediGaladriel Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 10/15/02 7:57pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars
	Diverging from the topic I know, but a grou of sleazy guys wouldn't yell "Philistine" at you unless you were doing something culturally appropriate for that word to be used. But that's the thing--Philistine isn't a swear; it's not vulgar/common. It's an epithet, but it's not vulgar. No one says it as a casual interjection (as we're suggesting "sithspit" would be--and why "spit"?). I don't think that "philistine" was ever considered a common word or one that broke a taboo or tread on taboo ground or anything. It's also not uncommon--it's not something obscure like an old religious sect. I guess the question would be, how much does the GFFA read old Jedi texts and study them? If it's as common as reading the Bible, there there might be some Jedi-based words floating around. But I get the distinct impression from the movies that, while belief in the Force is common, the Order keeps itself to itself, so it's internal problems would not be particularly common knowledge among the people. (Ref, Yoda's statement that they shouldn't even inform the Senate of their current problem in AotC.)
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Kit' Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 10/15/02 8:09pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars
	But that's the thing--Philistine isn't a swear; it's not vulgar/common. It's an epithet, but it's not vulgar. Point conceded. I was just trying to find a word of a fairly obscure words from ancient groups. Philistine isn't a swear word (like you said) more of an insult really. I think it also really depends on what level of swearing is socially acceptable based on family and societal values. In some families I know calling someone an idiot is liable for a mouth-washing - and yet in my family curse words are common (with the exception of swearing at someone which isn't allowed). Hmmmm- might let this thread go back to its original purpose now.... Kithera -----signature----- Some people are like slinkies; Not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile as you push them down the stairs * Writers wanted.... http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/27996678
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rogue11lovesjag Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 10/16/02 3:02pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars - Date Edited: 10/16/02 3:04pm (1 edits total) Edited By: rogue11lovesjag
	We used to call people "Nimrod" when I was in high school. He was a Biblical character, I think. Personally, I think you can put just as much emphasis behind "crap" or "darn" as you can their profane counterparts. It's sort of hard to put a Yosemite Sam kind of swearing in a SW fic. My favorite...and I use this in real life..."No Sith!" It's different when you're talking about real people, like the Nazis or Gnostics or whatever group you want to use there. This is Star Wars, and I don't think that there's anything wrong with it. Okay, enough stalling and back to my homework. Just putting my two cents in. ~Rogue EDIT: Didn't Fenig Nabon say to Kyp Durron something to the effect, "So you're Sithin' Durron?" -----signature----- Carrolé, Handmaiden of the Crest! Give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change The courage to change the things I can And the wisdom to hide the bodies of everyone who ruins my ships.
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JediGaladriel Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 10/16/02 4:03pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars
	Oh, I don't argue that it's not used in the EU. I just think it's a mistake on the part of the EU. To go on with "philistine," that's another class of word that makes life intersting when writing in another galaxy. Do you use words like "philistine" to mean what they mean here, ignoring the cultural story that underlies it? Or do you use a synonym that's not based on an Earth text? Same with "oedipal" or "herculean" or "sysiphean" or "sadistic" or whatnot.
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Lt_Jaina_Solo Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 10/16/02 4:58pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars
	i feel special... big debate going on in my thread.... thanks for the contribution, rogue11lovesjag! -----signature----- Handmaiden Irelynné, Handmaiden of the Crest All links to stories in bio!
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The_Standmaiden Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/19/02 2:55pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars - Date Edited: 10/19/02 2:57pm (2 edits total) Edited By: The_Standmaiden
	"Sadistic" is a tough one, because it is common, and most people don't know its historical significance. I have a fic where the NR characters say "Imperial" instead. However, if you get into the significance of the words . . . can you even use "sinister"? EDIT: and what about "spartan"?
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JediGaladriel Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 10/19/02 3:03pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars - Date Edited: 10/19/02 3:05pm (1 edits total) Edited By: JediGaladriel
	I don't think "Imperial" has the same connotation as "sadistic" (the latter being much, much more personal...) "sinister"... hmm, according to my dictionary (or, rather, to dictionary.com), its root is Latinate meaning "to the left" or "unfavorable"... it's arguably just an English word derived from Latin, and we can't cut all those out, or we'd lose half the language. So I wouldn't say "sinister" is a problem word. "Sadistic," though is listed as being derived from the Marquis de Sade. Maybe I'd use it in narrative, but I think I'd shy away from it in character dialogue. Oh, I'd probably shy away from it in narrative, too--just to be careful--and use "cruel" or a more descriptive passage describing the character taking pleasure from someone else's pain. EDIT: I'd definitely put "Spartan" on an "out" list... it would sound as out-of-place to me as it would to have Leia accuse Tarkin of being "Unchristian." Then again, the story that made me shiver to my toes when I was little was about the little Spartan boy with his stolen fox, so that's a high-visibility word in my little worldview.
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The_Standmaiden Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/19/02 3:05pm Subject: RE: Swear Words in Star Wars
	The only entry I found for "sadistic" in the thesaurus was "vice". Hmm.
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