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Author	Topic: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
DorkmanScott Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 11/10/05 2:42pm Subject: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0 - Date Edited: 11/10 11:39pm (7 edits total) Edited By: AdamBertocci
	Well folks, I've been promising this revision just about since I had DaftMaul put up the first one three years ago (almost to the day). And now, at long last, here it is. Welcome to TheForce.Net's Fan Films Forum. Let's cut straight to the chase. You're here because you have discovered that you (yes YOU) have within your grasp the ability to create a Star Wars-based film complete with compelling dialogue, exotic locales, and dynamic characters. That being said, you don't really care about any of that. You just wanna know about the lightsabers. And while this thread has a great deal of that information, let's get real. You clicked this link because it said LIGHTSABER, and now you want to know. So let's get to it: EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT LIGHTSABERS AND HAVE APPARENTLY BEEN UNAFRAID TO ASK Section I: The Effect How do I make lightsabers on a home video I've shot? Probably the #1 question on this board after "When is (fill in the blank) coming out" There are several necessary stages to accomplishing this: Capturing Well, the first thing you need to be able to do is get your footage into your computer. If you have an analog camcorder (the kind with the big VHS tapes), you are going to need a capture card. These cards run anywhere from $150--$1200 depending on the model and how robust they are. If you have a DV or miniDV (DV = Digital Video) camera, you will need a Firewire port on your computer. Firewire is the trademark name of the Apple Computer corporation for the IEEE-1394 data transfer standard, also called i.Link by Sony; however, like Xerox, Kleenex, Band-Aid and a handful of other such terms, Firewire has come to be used almost universally as the generic term for the transfer standard. Apple Firewire and most desktop PCs use the 6-pin Firewire port standard; Sonys and many digital camcorders use a smaller, 4-pin standard. It is up to you to figure out what you have. If you do NOT have Firewire but DO have a digital camera, purchase a PCI Firewire card for your computer. Some cameras and capture cards transfer through USB. They may be cheaper than FireWire, but you will get what you pay for. The data transfer capabilities of USB are not nearly high enough for high-quality digital video, and the image quality will be poor and probably choppy. With your capture card will likely be packaged capturing software. You will need to read the manuals to figure out how exactly they work to get footage onto your computer. Most editing software programs like Adobe Premiere, Vegas Video, Final Cut Pro, and iMovie have capable video capturing utilities. Windows MovieMaker is NOT recommended for this, as it imports video files into a proprietary format that no other program can currently read. Now the footage is on your computer and we can begin. Rotoscoping and Tutorials There are many different methods for the creation of the lightsaber glow on a video file, most of which employ a process called rotoscoping. The rotoscope is a device, patented by animator Max Fleischer in 1917, to project live-action footage, one frame at a time, onto an animator's drawing board; the style that resulted from this process became the trademark Fleischer Studios animation style. Like Kleenex and Firewire, "rotoscoping" has come to mean any frame-by-frame alteration to footage, although the actual rotoscope device has since been abandoned in favor of computer workstations. Don't let the way the term is used on this board convince you that it applies only to the creation of lightsabers. The most popular programs for this process on video are as follows: Adobe AfterEffects (AE): By far the most popular method to date in Adobe AfterEffects is the one developed by Ryan_W and Link64PD, which you can find here. A lesser-known, somewhat older tutorial by Maul316 can be found at this site. It requires the glow plugin in the AE production bundle, which not everyone is likely to have, but the first part that describes the mask-creation process is invaluable, as the method above has great glows, but skims over the roto process a little too fast for some people to understand. Adobe Photoshop (PS; in conjunction with Adobe Premiere): Although Photoshop was developed more for single images, it can work with filmstrip files (which can be exported only from AE or Premiere) or TIFF sequences (numbered sequences of frames in separate full-resolution files). One of the oldest tutorials available, and still getting good results, is the tutorial developed by Darel Finley, of Matrix Jedi fame. (NOTE: His tutorial shows the filmstrip running horizontally, but by default in most versions of Photoshop the filmstrip will be displayed vertically) The tutorial that preceded his groundbreaking AE method, Ryan_W's Photoshop tutorial (the second one down the page) was the first to use the Gaussian Blur/color balance method of creating a glow, and when used in conjunction with the aforementioned filmstrips or TIFF sequences, can create some formidable effects. Also a possibility is the Lightsaber Ignition Action (LIA+). Designed mainly for still frames, it is more difficult to get a good video clip of the effect with this method, though not impossible. Ulead MediaStudio Pro: Used by the original Saber Master, Clay Kronke, Ulead is a powerful editing package capable of producing stunning effects. Check out his tutorial, which is probably the closest thing possible to computerized rotoscoping. There are tutorials for several other, lesser-used software programs on the TFN Tutorials Page, as well as useful non-lightsaber topics. Make sure you check it out. For a comparison of different methods, softwares, and styles, check out the original Lightsaber Effects Competition Results. All these methods/tutorials expect a certain degree of familiarity with the program at hand, so make sure and at least skim the manual. Also check out Ryan Wieber's website, which has quite a number of tutorials for all the tricky little aspects of lightsaber effects, such as flickering blades, ignitions/retractions, and what to do when the lightsaber goes behind something. Also, to fairly represent some of the various possibilities: EffectsLab DV: (Formerly AlamDV.) While many dislike this program, the price is right for a fan filmmaker's budget, and in the hands of a good artist some pretty nice results can come of it. Mainvision: (Formerly Axogon Composer). I have not heard of people using this program in a very long time, but it is still one of the cheaper alternatives to the Adobe products, with a tutorial on lightsabers in an earlier version here. Shake: Shake is a high-end compositing package used in many professional post houses, including WETA Digital. While there is a lightsaber tutorial on lightsabers in this program, the software is out of the price range of most fan filmmakers, with no option for academic discounts. -----signature----- Yes We Did http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.blogspot.com
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DorkmanScott Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 11/10/05 2:44pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0 - Date Edited: 11/10/05 2:51pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DorkmanScott
	Frequently Asked Questions Do I really have to do this thing frame-by-frame? Yes. If you want good results, there’s no way around it. Some of the abovementioned programs like AE and Commotion support keyframing, in which the computer calculates motion between frames, but often the very precise calculation does not match the less precise organic motion of the clip and requires adjustment. There have been talks of writing a computer program to identify a color in the scene and make it glow automatically, but this idea is fraught with practical issues. A fast-moving saber will blur a great deal, becoming more transparent and thus, essentially, almost a different color. There are a number of other problems as well that make this a nice dream, but an impractical one for good results. All the major visual effects houses still employ rotoscoping as a cornerstone of their compositing division. Sometimes there’s just no substitute for an artist’s eye. I don’t have enough money for these programs. What should I do? If you are a student, you can find academic discounts all over the web, at such sites as: Creation Engine Academic Superstore JourneyEd And others. What about the flashes when two lightsabers hit together? There is some confusion on this board as to what is the appropriate “reaction” for lightsabers to have when they come in contact with each other. Many people say “don’t use lens flares”, but that’s not completely accurate. More accurate would be, “Don’t use lens flares with artifacts”. A digital lens flare is made up of two parts: the bright flash, and those colored circles at funny positions. Those circles are artifacts, and they are designed to simulate the effect of a bright light bouncing around the lens array of a camera. These are desirable for making a digital light source appear to be shot with the same camera as real light sources that are creating similar flares, but they tend to be bad for lightsaber clashes because they call far too much attention to themselves. If you can make the flash without the lens flares, that is best and most film-accurate. One option is to purchase Knoll Light Factory. Designed by John Knoll—who also designed Adobe Photoshop and worked as a visual effects supervisor on the two Star Wars prequels, it’s a safe bet that this is a good program. Available for download is also Knoll Light Factory Photoshop, a version designed for Photoshop. It is not keyframable, but could still be used on a filmstrip or image sequence to create animated flare effects, and is significantly cheaper than its AE counterpart. The lens flare effect I used for the lightsaber sequences in Ryan vs. Dorkman and Contract of Evil is also available to download from Ryan Wieber’s website. A lightsaber method can also be adjusted to create a custom two- or three-frame flash. What color should my lightsaber be? According to George Lucas, the only lightsaber colors that exist are green, blue, red, and by special request of Samuel L. Jackson, purple. However, the extended universe novels and comics, not to mention numerous fan films, support the viewpoint of “if you can dream it, you can have it.” So if you can figure out the logistics of a rainbow-gradient lightsaber (and, hopefully, a reason for such an atrocity), have at it. The decision of lightsaber color is really a personal one, and possibly one used to express something about the character. Obviously, Sith and red are practically synonymous. Red is an angry, aggressive color. There’s a reason Sith dress in black and have red lightsabers – they are unconscious cues to the audience about their personalities and mindsets. If you break this seemingly cliché but really very sensible rule of thumb, you should have a reason for it. To continue with a bit of color theory, blue is a calmer, more soothing color. Often nighttime on film is simulated with a blue filter on the image, as is a cold environment. Logically, one who uses blue would be unconsciously associated with calm, wisdom, and patience. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule; in the Star Wars world, very often blue is the color of an apprentice, like Obi-Wan in Episode I and Anakin in Episode II. Exar Kun also wielded a blue lightsaber, even after his turn to the dark side, highlighting the contrast between who he used to be and who he became. On the color wheel, green is the complement to red. As such, the strongest opponents to a Sith Lord are often shown wielding a green lightsaber. It is also a more vibrant, one might say “wild” color than blue. It lends a feeling of unpredictability as well: notice that Anakin in Episode II changed from a blue lightsaber to wielding a green one when he got more out on his own. While not his own decision, the filmmakers helped highlight his slide to uncontrollability. According to Owen Demers in Chapter 3 of Digital Texturing and Painting: “Violet [aka purple], the most exotic color, has long represented royalty…subliminally it can represent wealth, both monetarily and spiritually…it is mystical and meditative” [Demers 114]. I quote this because I could not better summarize the connotation it gave to the character of Mace Windu. Before choosing another color, I would suggest considering the character illumination (no pun intended) offered in these four basic colors. Most characters can be subtly enhanced quite well out of these seemingly limited but very well-chosen colors. How about sound effects? This page has a good collection to get you started, with several more (and a good number of Force power and other sound effects) also available here. -----signature----- Yes We Did http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.blogspot.com
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DorkmanScott Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 11/10/05 2:45pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0 - Date Edited: 11/10/05 2:52pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DorkmanScott
	Section II: The Prop How long are lightsabers? The average two-handed lightsaber is 11 to 12 inches long. Depending on possible different styles, such as a one-handed Chinese-influenced style, or a power-move kendo style, you may want a longer or shorter handle. Double-bladed lightsabers range from only slightly longer than a single-bladed lightsaber (Exar Kun, who built the first recorded double lightsaber, had one only about 14” long) to a longer handle which allows for greater control of the second blade (Darth Maul’s lightsaber was 22” long). The energy blade of a lightsaber is, according to novelizations, a meter long. (For the Imperialists, that’s a little over three feet.) However, the EU supports the idea that length and intensity of a lightsaber blade can be varied. In “Splinter of the Mind’s Eye”, Luke adjusts his lightsaber to act as a lockpick. On the other end of the extreme is the dual-phase lightsaber, used by Gantoris (one of Luke’s first students at the new Jedi Academy) and later, Kyle Katarn. The dual phase lightsaber is like a normal lightsaber, but the handle twists in such a way that realigns the lightsaber focusing crystals, causing the blade to double in length and, as a by-product, change color. To date, a dual-phase lightsaber has not been utilized in any film, fan or official, though some films like The Empire Strikes Backyard have played with the humorous qualities of varied lightsaber lengths. How do I make a lightsaber? In the official films, particularly the prequels, there are at least two sets of lightsabers fabricated. The ones seen hanging on the actors’ belts are referred to as beauty props. In the prequels, these are custom-machined from aluminum by qualified machinists. In the original trilogy (with the exception of Luke’s lightsaber in Return of the Jedi, which was machined), lightsabers were cobbled together from various found parts. Luke’s lightsaber in the first two films was made of the base of a Graflex 3-cell flash gun, a photography tool. A cheap solution at the time, nowadays you would be hard pressed to find one of these for less than $1000. The ones used in fight scenes are known as the stunt props. In the original trilogy, these were duplicates of the beauty props (though less refined and detailed) with lightweight carbon-fiber rods secured in them for fighting. In the first two prequels, the stunt sabers are resin duplicates of the beauty props with cores of 5/8” stainless steel rods that extend approximately 6 inches out of the emitter. Secured to these are 3/4” aluminum tubes, painted bright green or orange/red, depending on the background, and wrapped in heat-shrink to keep the paint from chipping off. In the final prequel, Revenge of the Sith, the lightsaber stunt props were redesigned again for the purposes of the climactic Duel between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, utilizing simplified, modular metal props and lightweight, specially ordered carbon-fiber tubes, again brightly painted and shrink-wrapped. Most fan films use anything available as a lightsaber prop. It depends on your budget and skills. Check out the Costuming and Props forum for more information (and do some looking before you post any questions there). The favorite of fan films is the 3/4” wooden dowel. Sturdy, medium weight, and very cheap. Paint them bright colors and screw them into a plumbing tube and you’ve got yourself a stunt prop. Also growing in popularity are 1/2” aluminum tubes. Lightweight and cheap, they take quite a beating before they bend, and can be straightened a few times before they give out completely. Popular with some costumers and prop collectors are electroluminescent (EL) blades, which light up and are sturdy enough for duelling. Unfortunately, they can withstand high-speed duelling because they are extremely flexible, almost rubbery, and are not recommended for filmmaking applications. A couple more sites for your lightsaber building needs: The Big Yellow Box: Showcasing eight custom designs (as of this writing), and tutorials for how to build them from things you can pick up at a hardware store (which earns them the name hardware, as opposed to machined, sabers), one of the most popular lightsaber-construction sites on the internet. Also an old favorite, the aptly named Build Your Own Lightsaber Constructing Lightsabers is another page that was linked in the first version of this thread. The Padawan’s Guide to Lightsabers can get you going. If you really want an EL saber, High-Tech Magic has some information for you. For more information, do a Google search for custom lightsaber or lightsaber construction. How should I design lightsabers? If you want a custom design, you should check out existing designs for information. Luukesabers has put together a fairly comprehensive collection of images of existing lightsabers used in the films and EU. Pretty high quality stuff, too. Also take a look at what others are doing. Some nice sites are Kal Joren’s Jedi Academy, and also Obi-Wan’s Jedi Academy. Just make sure that it is something you can hold comfortably. Putting lots of studs and spikes on it may make it look evil, but it will also make it difficult for you to use without hurting yourself. Where can I buy a lightsaber? Parksabers is the most popular, and has some great designs. There is also Ravensmoon Replicas, with both Star Wars and traditional medieval weapons and garb available for purchase. Random Sabers does custom work, but their turnaround times are sometimes a great deal longer than quoted. I personally have had consistently poor experiences with them, but some people swear by them, so if you want to save some money and are not in too big of a hurry, they’re worth a look. SaberShop, a site run by TFN’s own Ryan Wieber, sells lightsaber props specifically designed and balanced for duelling, but also detailed and polished enough to use as a hero prop or costuming accessory. The availability of lightsabers is not consistent, but check the website for new announcements. For replicas of the movie props, none of the vendors can be directly linked to, for copyright reasons. Check out such sites as the Replica Props Forum and the previously mentioned Costuming and Props board for more information. For officially licensed replicas, Master Replicas is the only way to go. Their sabers are pretty expensive for just hanging on the belt, but they do have one line of sabers, the ForceFX sabers, that are very popular. The official statement is that they are not meant for duelling, but for people who own them, as long as you don’t go too hard on them they do just fine. Still, a $4 wooden dowel or aluminum tube is a lot easier to replace than a $120 electroluminescent ForceFX saber. -----signature----- Yes We Did http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.blogspot.com
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DorkmanScott Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 11/10/05 2:45pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0 - Date Edited: 11/10/05 2:55pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DorkmanScott
	Section III: The Fight How should I choreograph a lightsaber fight? Best idea is to get a professional martial artist, or someone with some weapons experience, to help you train with and properly utilize a sword and sword-like weapons. Realize that most actors in films with fight scenes either have a martial arts background, or have spent 3 months or more training for the fight scenes. You should also understand that most fights are not just fights, but stories, with a beginning, middle, and end. Just as you would never fight someone just for the hell of it, your characters should never fight unless something is actually at stake. Also, concentrate on a style for each of your characters. Each person should have his or her own unique style that helps to further illuminate that person’s character, whether it be aggressive, reserved, or otherwise. For one perspective on the psychology of the warrior and of swordfighting in general, check out Shimmering Sword by Nick Jamilla. Despite a few editorial issues you English majors out there may catch, the book is a useful perspective on modern, ancient, and futuristic swordplay. Netsword also has a page they call Stage Combat 101. And a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism, VoijaRisa on the boards, has a page on Choreographing a Lightsaber Duel. Also, here on TFN are a couple of other perspectives on fight choreography; I hesitate to say “tutorial” as it is something you can’t really learn just from reading a webpage or book, but must actually do physically: One is a conversational discussion about choreography with users Tumblemonster and LoganSaj. We have Thoughts on Staged “Lightsaber” Combat And there is also Fighting with Lightsabers. Realize that these are all from the perspective of the author, and they all have very different backgrounds. Jamilla’s book comes from a background of Japanese martial arts, Staged “Lightsaber” Combat favors European fencing as the basis of a lightsaber system, and Fighting with Lightsabers considers European broadsword fighting the zenith of martial combat. Lightsaber combat is in fact a combination of all of these, and the prequel lightsaber fights, at least the ones with Darth Maul, mixed in a good deal of Chinese martial arts as well, a style I personally favor. None of these should be considered the authority on how to choreograph a lightsaber fight, just useful information to synthesize into your own work. Other Recommended Reading Since I know I’ve got your attention, do me a favor and consult The Everything Topic and the Fan Films FAQ before you ask any questions on the board. I can practically guarantee you the big question you have that you can’t imagine has ever been asked before, has been asked a hundred times and more, and answered completely somewhere in one of these threads. Just do a little digging before you decide to ask it again. The other members will appreciate it greatly. And remember: Google is your friend. Once again, welcome to the forum! I look forward to watching your film! DorkmanScott -----signature----- Yes We Did http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.blogspot.com
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FruityTooty Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 11/10/05 3:07pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
	Yeah, rock that ****, Mikey. -----signature----- Teague "Fig" Chrystie Fig Chrystie + Chris Hanel - Shame + Audience = Geekza http://www.geekza.com
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RyiokuXL Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 11/10/05 3:11pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0 - Date Edited: 11/10/05 3:12pm (1 edits total) Edited By: RyiokuXL
	Nice, Very nice. Maybe people will read it this time? One can only hope... EDIT: For the record, I had never made a thread on how to do an effect that already had a tutorial at this website. -----signature----- Total E-Brother to Randy_Orton "I love you." "Uhhh... Yeah sorry, I don't." "I'm sorry Sir, this coupon is expired." "You son of a *****!"
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FruityTooty Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 11/10/05 3:15pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
	I'd change the name of this, honestly. You cover a lot of bases, and it just sort of trails off into saber specifics. Maybe something like "Lightsaber Effect Q&A Thread." -----signature----- Teague "Fig" Chrystie Fig Chrystie + Chris Hanel - Shame + Audience = Geekza http://www.geekza.com
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TrowaGP02a Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 11/10/05 3:33pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
	Now a lightsaber question that is answered by this thread = automatic BAN -----signature----- There must be some way out of here. Said the Joker to the Thief. There's too much confusion here. I can't get no relief.
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outrider462004 Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 11/10/05 3:53pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
	At last its here. Thank you. -----signature----- Twisted by the dark side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is . . . Consumed by Darth Vader
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ktulu216 Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 11/10/05 5:36pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
	Well done Mr. Scott. -----signature----- The Squirrel Factor II: April 2006 http://boards.theforce.net/fan_films/b10015/23178308/p1/?9
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winter_chili Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 11/10/05 6:38pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
	+5 points for the EYAWTKASBWATA reference. -----signature----- The Mighty Blueonic One of the Neverending and Excruciatingly Painful Padawanship A-H-B-Y ~~! !~~ it is the duty of a patriot to defend his country from its goverment
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DarthArjuna Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 11/10/05 7:22pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
	Three years ago? Wow, I feel old, because I remember when the last one went up. -----signature----- Andrew Hookway http://www.freewebs.com/pressenterproductions What IS Meatball? 8=======}>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For Sith-Lord_James and Alana:
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rogue_09 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 11/10/05 7:35pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
	omg first page omg Seriously though, good stuff. -----signature----- I don't know why everyone is so negative. I actually have a pretty good feeling about this. Do you dare to push The Big Red Button? http://thebrb.com
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durbnpoisn Title: TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 11/10/05 9:54pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0 - Date Edited: 11/10/05 9:58pm (2 edits total) Edited By: durbnpoisn
	Let me just make an appearance here to say, Great Googly Moogly, this is a most thorough thread. Excellent work, Mr. Scott. No, no, no... Not that Scottish guy from Star Trek. Dorkman's real last name is Scott. Let me also say, that no matter how thorough this thread is, mark my words, there will be a silly lightsaber question thread started within a week. Such is the way with these wildly popular Star Wars oriented boards. People tend to ask before looking. Anyone who is reading this right now without a smirk on their face (because they know I'm right), is probably holding an expression of relief for not having been that dude that started the afformentioned thread. The person who DOES start that thread will never have read this message. And I smirk at that person. To that end, have fun going blind tracing lightsabers! It's a helluva lot of work, fer sure... But the end result is worth it. As long as you don't cut corners. Cutting corners = crappy results Remember that little equation for ALL your FX work going forward. -----signature----- Fan Films Database: http://fanfilms.theforce.net Cloning in AE: http://www.durbnpoisn.com/films/cloneTut/index.asp My Star Wars Fan Films: http://www.durbnpoisn.com/films
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Goldleader23 Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 11/10/05 10:07pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
	Awesome job Dorkman! So if you can figure out the logistics of a rainbow-gradient lightsaber (and, hopefully, a reason for such an atrocity), have at it. Does that mean I can post This again? -----signature----- http://goldleader23.deviantart.com/ http://www.youtube.com/goldleader23 http://goldleader23.newgrounds.com/flash/ . - For Alana
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DVeditor Title: Evil Overlord (manager) Fan Films & Icons Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 11/10/05 11:01pm Subject: RE: HOW TO MAKE LIGHTSABERS 2.0
	TrowaGP02a posted: Now a lightsaber question that is answered by this thread = automatic BAN We will do what must be done. Awesome thread, Dorkman. Very glad to see this one up and running - don't think I've seen anything close to this thorough in a long time. Although I'm bitter that you linked to the older version of the tutorial sticky. (That was a classic thread in itself though so I don't mind too much. ) -----signature----- CK Hicks http://www.ckhicks.com http://dveditor.deviantart.com TFN on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2202937735
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