Jedi Council Forums - ***LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III*** VOTING / REVIEW THREAD

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Author	Topic: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
Corrin_Wyndryder Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 1/12/05 5:25pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Oh, you know I'm showing these entries to my choreographer and saying "I like how this looks, and I like how that looks." It's like a buffet of options. -----signature----- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23892791&brd=10477&start=25017068 The Force Legacy Saga - Part 1: Relics of Fate Latest Update 09-14-06 Chapter 4: A Hop, a Skip, and a Jump.
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DorkmanScott Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 1/12/05 5:33pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Entry 7 A lot of this I like. At the start this gets away, mostly, from the dreaded lr[d] sequence I’m so against, a lot of strikes actually aimed to kill or maim instead, but at 0:33 there it is in all its unholy glory. I liked the use of the other blade, in and out quickly, but you don’t do ANYTHING else with it. That’s really tragic. You introduced a great concept and then promptly forgot about it. It was a good idea to try using other Force powers (like the Force speed) as part of the mix. The Jedi have quite a bag-o-tricks at their disposal and I’d like to see more of them used strategically in a fight. And the alternative use of the Force push at 0:46 was…interesting. Unfortunately it wasn’t clear enough that the other guy was so solid in his stance that a Force push to him would blast the push-er back (which is how I understood what happened). I like the daring involved in shooting in the dark (as the next entry also attempts), but all we get in that sequence is lr[d] again, until they come out and the blades pop back on. Not immediately clear what happens at 1:16, you chose a poor angle for the dirt grab. We should probably be lower so we can really see his hand grabbing dirt. At first it looked like he pulled something out of his pocket. Could also have used a closer reaction shot of the recipient of the dirt in the eyes to help clarify as well. Too many non-saber jogging breaks. Here and there you have great moments of choreography, like the shot starting at 1:35, and I wish there was more of it in this entry instead of the constant lr[d] filler. 1:38! His back is turned! Don’t just stand there! PRESS THE ATTACK! After that point the viewer is likely to lose all interest in this fight, because there’s no sense of danger. Just a lot of posturing. Guy rolling at 1:46. After throwing a swipe, other guy stands and watches. Again at 1:49. Again at 1:53. Within ten seconds there’s been hesitation three times as the roller gets up. Oh look, 2:06 he remembered the other blade! So many missed opportunities here. I guess some of this was cut to your choice of music, which should definitely be the other way around. This is usually a problem with all amateur fight scenes (and some professional ones), but work on your footwork a bit. For most of the fighting, you keep your feet planted. When you do move your feet, for the most part it’s forward or back, and only once or twice every 20 hits. Pacing was slow and some inspired moments were lost among the sea of standard saber basics. Interesting choice of music too, though anything with lyrics in an action scene tends to distract a bit. I'd watch out for that next time. M. Scott -----signature----- Yes We Did http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.wordpress.com
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tumblemoster Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 1/12/05 5:38pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	I think you need to separate fact from opinion. As I said earlier, and what was largely ignored, is that I have no quarrel with Dorkman's negative opinion of an entry. I have issue with his incorrect assumptions about specific aspects, and statements related to these assumptions. I suggest we let this drop until after the scoring is done, when we'll all be free to discuss it openly, because until then, some people are required to keep their mouths shut, while other are free to "blather on". -tm -----signature----- http://www.tumblemonster.com http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1984394/ http://www.youtube.com/tumblemonster http://twitter.com/tumblemonster
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DorkmanScott Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 1/12/05 5:50pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Entry 8 I like the location, and am amused by the one fighters’ emulation of Ryan’s “dress style”. Good camera work. Fighting takes a while to start...a cool rotating shot but a little on the long side. If we had a whole film's backstory and an investment in the characters and their confrontation, it might work perfectly. But as it is, we just want to see them fight. When it does begin, the fighting is quick, but again I can’t help but notice right off the bat that 90% or more of the hits have no target – were the other combatant to miss a block, he would be in no danger of injury. AGH! Ankle break at 0:37 for the guy in black. Why does the guy in black switch to backhand at 0:53? Switching hands or hand-styles is not a bad thing; if he was using it as a change of strategy – “Okay, normal grip’s not working, I’ll try backhand” – that’s great. But to do it, do a generic move with it and then switch right back to forward-hand style seems like kind of a waste. The Force-jump at 0:58 is a little problematic because the actor’s jump doesn’t seem nearly to give the lift necessary to propel him like that. I understand it’s “Force propelled”, but nonetheless he should leave the ground a lot more powerfully than he does. And overall as I’ve noted in other entries (everyone seems to do it at least once), I really am not a fan of sweeping for a person’s ankles with the saber. It’s not the sweeping for the feet – it’s a good strategic move; if he can’t walk, you’re going to win – but if you have to bend down SO low that you put your head, unprotected, at the guy’s waist, and all he needs to do to evade you is jump six inches upward…well, you should probably end up dead. Lot of line crossing here again, and again it’s disorienting as the camera is always moving and suddenly we’re in a different place moving in a different direction. In some cases it’s not that bad, but in most it’s jarring and takes you out of the choreography for a second. SEVERELY an issue at 1:03, where you cut to them both running in the same direction instead of at each other. Really tough for the audience to keep their bearings. And…the lights are off. Why? We spend 18 seconds with the guy standing around in the dark with his saber. We’re not really seeing anything interesting, and no tension is being built. Definitely needs either inserts to build tension, or to be majorly cut down. Nothing too supremely cool happens in the dark that wouldn’t work just as well or better in the light. And then it’s light again for no good reason. It’s like we’re starting all over again. Once the light is back on, the performances are noticeably less intense and feel much more like they’re walking through the moves, with again a very small percentage of attempted body strikes, mostly stick bashing. Good attempt at 1:54, would have liked to see more in that vein. Cleanly shot, nice camera motion, but the editing was pretty awkward. I guess he stabbed the guy, but the saber goes off to the side. With an important shot like that, I would have tried to make the “kill” clearer. (How many first-person death shots does this make? Three?) M. Scott -----signature----- Yes We Did http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.wordpress.com
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cooljack91 Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 1/12/05 6:00pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD - Date Edited: 1/12/05 6:01pm (1 edits total) Edited By: cooljack91
	The best way of figuring out choreography is to do this: Imagine that your lightsaber(s) is real. (Very Dangerous) And imagine that your opponent did something so terrible that you would do anything to kill him. Now get your lightsaber and opponent. Think in your head of what you would do. you would try to find the best way to kill him. Then whenever you block think of how dangerous the lightsaber is. you don't want that to touch you. Once you understand what you are trying to do, go ahead and fight! Write down the choreography every once in a while. Once you got a routine, practice it over and over and over. Once you memorize it, you are all set for a Awesome fight! - Ian -----signature----- Blender Rocks! To Infinity and Beyond! - Buzz Lightyear You are a child's play thing! - Woody Bubbles!!!!!!! bubbles, bubbles, bubbles!............ My bubbles - Finding Nemo Are you saying I'm stupid? Do I look stupid to you? Let's just think a
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DorkmanScott Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 1/12/05 6:00pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Entry 9 I like this one. A nice location and good intensity. It’s still a lot of lr[d] but the strikes are at least directed towards the other person’s body, and would be more clearly if they were to slow down just enough to let the strikes connect rather than just glance off. The sliding around on the ice adds a nice layer to the fight, and while choreography-wise there’s still a lot of standing around while the other guy slips or something, I can understand you guys wanting to play it safe. The fighting stays fast, and the first time through that makes it exciting, but on inspection of the fight in later viewings there’s not a whole lot of variation in the moves. The “pause” at 1:05 before the double is revealed is a little confusing, but the choreography with the double is strong, I like it. Gives me the same feeling as when I used to watch the BTS footage of the actors practicing for Phantom Menace. Stance is an issue in all the entries so far, and I probably should have mentioned it before, but it’s just now become consistent enough that I really feel like mentioning it – plus the guy in blue is so tall it’s hard not to notice. In a lot of these fights the combatants footwork is simplistic, as though they’re just standing or walking. Part of showing intent or power is using the footwork, I’d like to see it utilized more often. The speed of the fighting is good, but the cuts become looser – a lot of pauses at the end and beginning of each shot before they start fighting again. It makes it feel slower once the double comes out. I like the reversed shot at 1:31 – the performance works and looks like it’s moving forward. The stuff with the saber in each hand is cool at the beginning, but the angle you chose for it is unflattering for it so its coolness is obstructed. Subsequent shots are considerably better. The music just kind of gives up a little bit there at 1:42. Kind of distracting since it was part of the fight up to that point and its cutting out doesn’t have any motivation within the moves. And he slices into his own armpit at 1:47…cool stuff the next two shots…and then the end goes horribly wrong. You haven’t been using Force powers this whole time, to make a huge Force push the big climactic moment makes it feel out of place. Overall I liked it, a good effort, I’d be interested in seeing this with completed FX, and either on solid ground or using the ice as more an integral part of the fight. M. Scott -----signature----- Yes We Did http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.wordpress.com
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-Phi- Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 1/12/05 6:13pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Oh those "ankle breaks"...my fencing instructors are always berating us about them. And then they say Lunge like this! and drag their ankle along behind them -----signature----- Why did the cross the möbius strip? LCC Archive: http://www.fanfilms.phispace.net/LCC/Archive.html http://Kiva.org ~ Be a Loaner
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Various Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 1/12/05 6:32pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	I wanna get in on contest #4. Just keep in mind that most everyone here has been really cool about all of this. And if some of you think this forum is harsh, PM and I'll throw a few links your way to show you how TAME this place really is. At least in the reviews nobody got their ancestory/sexual orientation/physical characteristics called into question. Anway, that kid in 21 put half these guys to shame; I think a lot of you dismissed it too soon. Sure it has stick clacking in it but watch what he does around 2:20. Not real fancy I know but just keep in mind he's like 7 years old. Not to mention they were all over the place, and hasn't "move your feet" been a common critique here? I think they did a great job and it was one of my favorites. But my vote goes to 6. It jumped out, slapped me around a bit, and made me fall in love with it. They brought something new to the table and the more I watch it the better it gets. I know that the younger guy left himself open and in odd stances but he was angry, not to mention the whole trying to die thing. Since the master wouldn't let him kill himself he tried to force the other's hand. Yet when the master finally swung a killing blow he collapsed his saber, refusing to end his student's life and placing his own into his. Now it may not have been as flashy or had as much going on as the others but the fighting was excellent and every move was with purpose. Also I think this clip captured the essense of what a Jedi master should be and told us a lot about the characters. All of that in just over 4 minutes. I also loved how it was set up like an old silent film, even the expressions were over-emphasized like it was back then. Awsome work. 17 is my second pick. It was really ambitious and they pulled it off very well. Even their personalities came through. Only, the one with the two blades seemed to keep forgetting the whole "hey, I got another saber in my other hand" thing. It was hard to follow at points due to white-out but still. Be kinda hard to do the sabers against a completely white background like that. 10 was great but it just didn't hit me like 6 did. I think it was the slow-mo (sure you've heard plenty about that by now). Debating on whether or not I should roto it myself to just see what it looks like finished. HEY! #25. Thank you for getting that TERRIBLE song stuck in my head. I had to mute your clip and pull the one with the bagpipes up while I watched because it hurt less. But joking aside I dug how you tried to match the action to the song. That song is stuck in my head for real, tho. 27 was fun! Also I totally love being able to go frame by frame! Uh...no specific reason or anything. Still can't belive I watched 27 of these things. Wow, they're all going to be on my harddrive for a while. Whatever headaches this contest creates should pale when you actually watch the work. I really appreciate being able to watch all of it. -----signature----- This place is still here? Dang...
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Bobobear Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 1/12/05 7:03pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Is it over yet? Just waiting until the polls are closed so I can read each filmmakers' opinions and rebukes (whatever they are) in full context. ...is it over yet?
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DanielKnight Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 1/12/05 7:14pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Do we actually have a solid date that the poles get taken down? I keep changing my idea on who should win - and I'd hate to miss out because I was too slow in making up my mind. -----signature----- Daniel Knight Troll Bridge - A Discworld Fan Film http://www.snowgumfilms.com/trollbridge/
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Covax Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 1/12/05 7:21pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD - Date Edited: 1/12/05 7:22pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Covax
	Actualy no, there was no specific date set. On or after January 22nd the Judges will give thier opinions. We've been assuming that it would be the same date the polls close since that's what hapend for the previous contest. I was planing to vote, Choreography wise, Monday-ish. -----signature----- Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can do neither, critique. http://www.Key-Pixel.com
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Corrin_Wyndryder Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 1/12/05 7:22pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	(How many first-person death shots does this make? Three?) You're going to get a lot of those. I should have made a tally along with the Shades and Forests. -----signature----- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23892791&brd=10477&start=25017068 The Force Legacy Saga - Part 1: Relics of Fate Latest Update 09-14-06 Chapter 4: A Hop, a Skip, and a Jump.
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Greywolf_BCC Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 1/12/05 7:34pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	DorkmanScott I have looked back over your reviews and found a common theme of lr[d]. Now I have gone over those entries and I can see what your saying but, while viewing all the other entries I could see the same pattern with basicly no exception. Now is this because we are all amatures at choreography? That could quite possiblly be or could that be because a real fight have alot of lr[d] because they are basicly three of but a handfull of strikes which leave a small opening and little risk. Now I have fought baffo (before it had a name) and in the SCA (both heavy and rapier) which isn't real fighting because of the rules of combat but they hit like it was real combat, and well I have seen many people win with the lr[d] offence. I guess my biggest question is, where can I find a fight choreography that doesn't have the lr[d] so I can better understand where you are comming from.
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Jedi_Spiff Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 1/12/05 8:56pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	I am only posting reviews so far for certain entries that aren’t getting the kudos they deserve. Entry 27 One of my top 3 entries in this contest is 27. It’s a shame to me this entry is receiving more commentary on its hot girl than on everything else it achieves. Now, I have to admit plot-wise I’m slightly confused. As elaborate as the setting is, the integrated effects and all the other people, my suspension of disbelief that these two are trying actually kill each other is not maintained throughout this entry. I like to give the creators a “benefit of the doubt” in this case, and suggest that these two guys in the machine shop have managed to perfect lightsaber design – and have decided to give them a spin. If this fight were to actually end in a murder, I would be quite sad – but as it stands it’s most amusing. In my mind, there are two primary features that make this entry stand out from the rest: #1. The use of the set in terms of camera placement and foot placement brings to mind the flavour of old swashbuckling epics. #2. The integration of destroyable objects into the set – from the pyrotechnics, to the other cast members etc. Both of these contribute to choreography in the sense of timing and placement, as well as script design, set design, staple guns etc. It would be safe to say that none of the entries (save perhaps 02) are as elaborately staged as 27. Strictly speaking of the saber combat aspect of the choreography, I have mixed feelings. As skilled as these dudes are, martial arts don’t appear to be their strongest point. While there are many hits that would miss or not even require blockage within the executed choreography – they are hardly the boring left-right-left variety we usually see… In addition, I don’t feel that these two characters – whoever they are – SHOULD be having an extremely proficient or fast duel. After all – they have co-workers around, and a lot of expensive equipment. Someone could get hurt! Nonetheless many of the techniques are sufficiently performed and the sequences are intricate, requiring three dimensional footwork, interaction with the environment and the like… and the moves suit the characters. What more could you ask for? Other positives I must comment on. This film is shot 4:3. Normally I would say “eww” to this observation – but the relatively desaturated colours (save the lightsabers – which aren’t exactly composited as well as one might like) and the cinematography really make use of the 4:3 frame in constructive way that complements the action. Shots at 0:37, 0:52, 1:16, 1:29, 1:41, 2:20, etc. etc. etc. really use the frame to full effect. So there you have it. Have another look at 27 – and not just the shot at 3:41. These folks put in a lot more thought and effort into this submission than almost all the other entries combined. -----signature----- "There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there's a Canadian taxpayer." - RCAF Now a member of the unofficial Master Zap fanclub. PwNN: http://wbm.zenutech.com/WBFilm/SWPlanet.html
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AzerNik Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 1/12/05 9:31pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Spiff just said something I've been thinking. It's, like, spooky. -----signature----- Long live all of us crazy soldiers who were born under calico skies May we never be called to handle All the weapons of war we despise
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