Jedi Council Forums - Using music from other scores in your film

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Author	Topic: Using music from other scores in your film
dvdcdr Registered: Aug '06	Date Posted: 7/7 10:10am Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	I know the whole star wars scenario we have here. Fan films are technically illegal, etcetera, etcetera, but Lucasfilm encourages it. But what of a different film? I have a film I made and temp scored with music from Cinderella Man, and am having trouble parting with it. I am looking into putting it in festivals. Do most festivals allow this, or does there need to be original music? -----signature----- Zarrangeloflix Site: http://www.freewebs.com/zarrangeloflix/ STREET SMARTS: August 2008 Effects Artist, Writer, Director
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AdamBertocci Title: Manager: Fan Films Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 7/7 10:18am Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	Festivals will not want to screen a film with stolen music in it. Now, if it were a temp score and you were submitting, say, a feature as a work-in-progress with the promise to get original music in for the fest, that'd be all right (in some cases), you'd just be clear about that. I don't think most fests are interested in looking at work-in-progress shorts though. But don't waste your money trying to get a screening with Thomas Newman music. Not at anywhere decent, anyway. Rick McCallum loves you! -----signature----- "Run Leia Run", "The Chopped-Off Hands of Star Wars" and "The Fan Film Menace"... ... and now the award-winning "Brooklyn Force". Check 'em out. http://www.runleiarun.com
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andy1044 Registered: Aug '06	Date Posted: 7/7 12:28pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	Lesson 1 of Director / Producer school should be: NEVER GET ATTACHED TO YOUR TEMP TRACK. That is all. -----signature----- http://www.andrewskrabutenas.com http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3256602/
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bobaandy123 Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 7/7 1:47pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	It's not illegal if you don't get caught. -----signature----- "I know the movies! Why don't Spielberg?!" ~Michael “Dorkman” Scott, Geekza! Episode 50
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TrowaGP02a Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 7/7 3:10pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	If you don't get caught that means no one watched your film, so... -----signature----- blarg
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dvdcdr Registered: Aug '06	Date Posted: 7/7 3:18pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	Haha, good point(s), everyone. I was pretty sure of the answer, just making sure. -----signature----- Zarrangeloflix Site: http://www.freewebs.com/zarrangeloflix/ STREET SMARTS: August 2008 Effects Artist, Writer, Director
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SilentBat Registered: Aug '06	Date Posted: 7/7 3:49pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	Actually ... most film fest are fine with copy written music, I thought. Or am I just crazy? -----signature----- http://antoinebandele.blogspot.com http://vimeo.com/antoinebandele http://twitter.com/AntoineBandele According to suicide statistics, Monday is the favored day for self-destruction.
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maul2 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 7/7 3:55pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	You're crazy... One it's illegal so they won't allow it...and two it's illegal so you'll get your ass sued if you do try it. -----signature----- http://www.youtube.com/user/maul291 My newest film online now! Invisible Walls! http://tenthdimensionfilms.blogspot.com/
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Dr-Carnivora Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 7/7 4:31pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	I attended the National Film Festival for Talented Youth in Seattle, WA this past year and there were several films in it that had copyrighted music. Most notably the theme from the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly by Ennio Morricone. And tickets had to be bought to watch the films. :-o -----signature----- YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/NavajoJoeFilms MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/navajojoefilms Harrison J. Bahe was here...
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AdamBertocci Title: Manager: Fan Films Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 7/7 4:52pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	^ Talented Youth? Was that, like, a high school thing? 'Cause they could probably get away with it 'cause it's educational purposes, non-profit, what-have-you. Look. I'm not saying it's impossible to get away with these things. (Although someone would probably notice if you used the Morricone, ha ha.) But chances are a festival screener is gonna notice a film of (I'm guessing) modest budget and modest filmmaking experience that employs a perfectly mixed, lush score with a full orchestra. Eyebrows will be raised. Rick McCallum loves you! -----signature----- "Run Leia Run", "The Chopped-Off Hands of Star Wars" and "The Fan Film Menace"... ... and now the award-winning "Brooklyn Force". Check 'em out. http://www.runleiarun.com
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kuatengineer Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 7/7 5:34pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	Ignorant question time - but here we go. How hard would it be to actually secure rights or permission to include music in an independent film? I'm assuming money would come into play, but how much would be typical, how would you go about it, etc.? -----signature----- Do, or do not. There is no try. http://kuatengineer.webs.com/ Star Wars fan film resource library
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elemental_fantasy Registered: Mar '06	Date Posted: 7/7 5:37pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film - Date Edited: 7/7 5:38pm (1 edits total) Edited By: elemental_fantasy
	If you have release forms any festival will allow it, but without it, most festivals will not allow it, or make you sign a waiver making you responsible for it. Most small non-profit festivals look the other way.
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NZPoe Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 7/7 6:21pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	My notes from THIS thread: MUSIC TERMS IN SHORT FILMS This one applies to all of you out there who're not necessarily making a fan film, but producing an original short with the intention of releasing at festivals. SYNC LICENSE - this is the license for the intellectual property of a song i.e. what you pay the songwriter. PERFORMANCE / MASTER LICENSE - this is the license for the actual recording of the song i.e. what you pay the musician/singer. You must have a SYNC LICENSE AND A PERFORMANCE/MASTER LICENSE in order to license a pre-recorded track. However if you are re-performing a piece of music (e.g. singing "Happy Birthday" which is a copyrighted song) then you only need to pay for a SYNC LICENSE. When you are requesting for a license, you can ask for "FESTIVAL RIGHTS" which is far, far, cheaper than paying for a full license. HOWEVER this means you only have the rights to use a piece of music/song while screening at festivals - you are still forbidden for producing DVDs, earning money from the film and distributors of short films will not license YOUR film because your music rights will be deemed "unclear". When requesting a license, you should always ask for GRATIS first (i.e. free). If you cannot get license via GRATIS, your next port of call should be to ask for MOST FAVORED NATIONS (i.e. equal costing on both sync and master licenses - a sort of package deal). Failing this, you will have to pay for each license separately. DELIVERING YOUR SHORT FILM TO MAJOR FILM FESTIVALS MASTERING Although almost all short film festivals will accept a DVD MASTER, but major festivals will usually demand a master in DIGIBETA format or 35mm prints. High Definition formats vary from festival to festival - some will accept Blue-Ray, others will demand a Quicktime or a WMV file, others will ask for an XDCAM or something else. If mastering to DIGIBETA, the standard acceptable sound mix policies are: Channel 1 = Stereo Mix Channel 2 = Dolby Mix Channel 3 = Dialogue only Channel 4 = Music and Sound FX only LIST OF DELIVERABLES TO A MAJOR FILM FESTIVAL This is a list of what is commonly requested by most of the major, A-list film festivals around the world. 2 x MASTERS OF YOUR SHORT FILM (35mm FILM PRINT or DIGIBETA or acceptable HIGH DEFINITION FORMAT) 1 x LETTER enabling a recognized post-production facility or lab to have access to your digital master. 1 x PACKAGE OF FULL DOCUMENTATION (release forms allowing full exploitation of your film including releases from any behind-the-scenes-documentary crew, an EXPORT SCRIPT/DIALOGUE LIST which is a timecoded sheet of all of the film's dialogue to allow translation and subtitling and a MUSIC CUE SHEET with full licensing details listed). 1 x SET OF 6 COLOR or B/W NEGATIVES (promotional images from the film) or a CD WITH PRINT QUALITY JPEGS 1 x SET OF PHOTOS (or CD WITH JPEGS) OF THE DIRECTOR 1 x MASTER PRESSKIT TIPS FOR HAVING AN ACCEPTABLE PRESSKIT * A presskit is not meant to be fancy - it is a WORKING DOCUMENT! * Ensure EVERYTHING in the presskit has FULL CONTACT DETAILS * Ensure you list the TRT = Total Running Time * Remember to put your country of origin! * Remember that a LOGLINE is NOT THE SAME THING as a TAGLINE. A LOGLINE is a short synopsis of your movie, limited to a single sentence. A TAGLINE is a cheesy bit of fluffy advertising you find in the bottom of most movie posters. * CONSTANTLY UPDATE your presskit! * Remember to include detailed BIOGRAPHIES of the film's production and key cast and crew! * Remember to include PRODUCTION NOTES - interesting trivia, production history and quotes from positive reviews of your film from publications! * Mention that your package includes an EXPORT SCRIPT/DIALOGUE LIST and ensure that you send it! * Remember to include photos (on CD)!! * Remember to put positive reviews of past films!! To answer your question Kuatengineer - there is no harm is picking up the phone, calling and finding out. Figure out which version of the rights you want (Most Favored Nations, Sync, Master, or if you want a Gratis deal) and get a quote. The fee will vary hugely depending on what the song is, how nice they are to you, what you want to use it for and which rights you apply for. To dvdcdr - yes, I'm afraid its the toughest lesson of all (at least for me) to give up your temp score and find a real score. Sometimes your real score will never match up to your temp score and sometimes you'll be surprised that your real score is actually better! Best of luck! Last, but not the least - yes everyone here is correct: it is 100% illegal to use music you have not licensed or paid for in any format. In film festivals where there is advertising or people pay to view films, it's definitely a Class-A-No-No and the festival organizer can get into a lot of deep doo-doo if they're found out. If its for a highschool film festival or any other tiny viewing event where nobody in the film industry is likely to attend or find out, then yes you could probably get away with it and not get into trouble (in the same way fan films do this). -----signature----- My Showreel: http://www.vimeo.com/channels/poe http://www.youtube.com/nealnz
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backdeskproductions Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 7/8 9:47pm Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	^^^^^ I remember that! -----signature----- I now have surround sound capabilities! I just need a project to exploit my newly discovered powers. Tee hee -Jon C. Maxwell
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kuatengineer Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 7/9 4:33am Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	Poe, thanks for the excellent response. I am the kind of person that would be inclined to pick up the phone and ask someone for sure. I wasn't sure if that kind of thing is ever done or not, but I would be very curious to know how that would work out, and how much someone might have to pay, etc. -----signature----- Do, or do not. There is no try. http://kuatengineer.webs.com/ Star Wars fan film resource library
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FX_guy Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/9 11:40am Subject: Using music from other scores in your film
	kuatengineer posted: I would be very curious to know how that would work out, and how much someone might have to pay, etc. It's a case-by-case basis - the license on an obscure song from an obscure band will almost certainly cost less than a #1 hit. The performers themselves have a lot of say in that. They also have every right to not even set a price, they can just say no. Ever notice that in the movie universe, the Beatles apparently don't exist? Other than in their own movies, or the very few they've been directly affiliated with (like Across The Universe), Apple Records almost never licenses Beatle songs for use in movies. It's not even a question of money, it's just been their policy that they don't do it. Another example - John Landis really wanted to use "Moon Shadow" in American Werewolf in London. Cat Stevens said no, because he didn't want his song in a movie that made fun of the supernatural. And so on. This is why movies often feature soundalike versions of hit songs - the music publisher says okay but the original performer says no, so they record a cover version and use that. But this can also work to your advantage - IF you can reach the artist in question and convince them that your project is awesome. There's an extra on the School Of Rock DVD of the video Jack Black made, begging Led Zeppelin to let them use "Immigrant Song". It worked, and the song is in the movie. So there's really no way to know what the deal is on any specific piece of music, except to pick up the phone and start askin' -----signature----- http://www.pinkfive.com Morbid and creepifyin' I got no problem with.
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