Jedi Council Forums - ***LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III*** VOTING / REVIEW THREAD

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Author	Topic: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
DorkmanScott Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 1/10/05 11:08pm Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Okay, my critiques are mostly directed towards the actual creators of the entries in question. As is usually my position, I’m going to focus on what could be improved, because everyone else can easily tell you what’s good about it. I’ll do my best to make sure I provide suggestions on how to improve the issues rather than just pointing them out. The comments on the first entry are surprisingly long. And being that it’s among the shortest entry, that doesn’t bode well. SO, I’ll post them individually instead of in a massive novel-post. We’ll start with…. Entry 1 Choreography commentary: Starts off with the far-too common “left-right[-down]” pattern. Very clearly hitting each others’ sticks and not each other here, and in much of the entry. No intent of a killshot behind it. Physical contact is way too slow and undersold. The choreography isn’t the problem, the speed is low and the target is too vague. The elbow, for example, goes for the general area of the head and not, for example, temple or nose. Again, the lack of intent. The attacker clearly pulls his strikes and the other guy waits for it. Same with the side-thrust kick – after the attack, the guy in black pauses instead of pressing the attack. Instead of flowing as part of the choreography, the physical hits break it up and make it hard to get into or to sustain any kind of intensity. The grapple at 0:28 doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. They tangle their left arms together instead of either making a clear attack, and then the guy in the hat, clearly at the advantage, uses his fist instead of his blade. No intent to kill, again. He hits him with the butt of the saber, which couldn’t lift the guy off his feet. He clearly jumps back into it, and the attacker, like happens all too frequently, he again makes no attempt to end the fight, but just watches him fall and watches him get up. They are so close together when this happens that it’s impossible to ignore: the guy is just standing there, just like the elbow and side-thrust. Interesting moves, and the progression in the fight makes sense, but the performers don’t sell it. 0:40. Why don’t you stab? EITHER of you? You’re both wide open and your blades are in no way obstructed. Way too much of that. The reasoning behind the knee is great, but no follow-up. It could have started a rather painful series of moves, but instead it was just an isolated knee. And then to push him away, again, instead of stabbing him, makes no sense. You push with BOTH HANDS. If I bring the same issue up a lot, it’s because it happens a lot. We finally get some hits between 0:51 and 0:54, but it’s very simple stuff. Left-right-down, all standing upright. The fighter in black is clearly anticipating the moves, nodding his head with every strike – I don’t know why people do this. Is it to sell the force of the collision or something? I mean, I spotted myself doing it in RvD occasionally, and I don’t know why the hell I did that. It just doesn’t work. The jump…way too much telegraphing of the move, going for the ankles, and following through way too much. The momentum stops and there’s clearly no follow-up move on the part of the attacker. The guy in the jacket just hops and then stands there and waits to be attacked again while he clearly has time to mount an attack. If it’s really that low of a swipe, all you have to do is lift your foot in a knee-lift or something, and you NEED to do some kind of counterattack. This shot could have been trimmed to make it seem a bit faster, as well. All the “saber exchanges” feel like the same one over and over from different angles. Not only is it predictable, but it’s slow. The attacker should change his strategy, or the attackee should figure out the strategy and MAKE him change his strategy, but not the same thing over and over. The zoom was a nice thought, but stylistically it was out of place. There was nothing dramatic enough to motivate it, and pausing even long enough to do it killed what little momentum you had in the sequence. The shots don’t really flow together. You’ll do a sequence and then stop, then do a sequence in the next shot and stop. Try cutting on action more instead of on pauses, to make it flow more together. Instead of feeling like there’s a mounting intensity, each shot essentially has to start from scratch and try to build momentum on its own. Other stuff commentary: Weird crossing of the line at 0:10, looks like they’re both looking offscreen right, makes me expect a third opponent or something. A lot of this throughout the entry. Make the FX work consistent. In my personal opinion, if you’re not going to do it all, don’t do it AT all. The constant switching of what FX you were doing – one saber, the other saber, none but still flashes, sound FX – made it almost prohibitively distracting. The guy in black looks like he’s seriously about to hurt himself some of the time, like the semi-drop stance at 0:20 and that PAINFUL looking kip-up at 0:31. A hands-free kip should use the shoulders, but he uses the forearms and NECK! I’d rather see a kip that uses hands and does it right than one that makes me afraid that he almost broke his forearms, elbows, and neck. There is potential in this. There were some good ideas in the non-saber stuff, kicks and throws and stuff like that are badly needed in the Star Wars universe during a fight, but everything needs to be sold much better. It’s a straightforward duel, nothing fancy just sword on sword, which is good. A lot of gimmicks this time around, and it’s good to see a more normal attempt to kick things off. No Force powers, but I think they’d feel out of place. This is a much more realistically-grounded fight. Oooooookay...off to number 2. M. Scott -----signature----- Yes We Did http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.wordpress.com
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NitroBlade Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 1/11/05 12:46am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Talk about being thorough Dorkman. Let me just say, I'm not going to sugar coat any of my comments, so if you know yours is bad, then don't read this at all. #1 The only good thing I can say about this film… is the sunglasses. It's a good attempt, but the choreography is sloppy, not well rehearsed, and not very well put together. In a few cases I thought to myself "why'd he push him, or punch him when his enemy’s defenses were down? He had a friggin lightsaber in the other hand!" #2 Nice job at this one. The choreography is definitely impressive, and the mesh of wirework into it was a nice touch. Not very original in that it just reminds me of films like Hero and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, etc... The fight while circling in the air, near the end was the only real weak point. Nice Camera work too. I liked this one. Perhaps a bit unfair, seeing as you had access to wirework, but life is unfair. #3 This was... yeah. I laughed a bit at this one, and felt bad for doing so. The stances, the effects, etc... weren't very well executed. The choreography, well there wasn't much fighting, just effects and things that would seem cool in your head, but when done on film, doesn't come out so good. #4 I love that communicator! Looks like a huge fancy sci-fi remote control. It's great! Ok, it was stick bashing, so what? Left, right, left, right, left, right. I mean, come on. Went on for too long for what it was. Good costumes and sabers though. Probably the worse choreography out of them all. Did you actually attempt at anything? Also, at one point he was just holding the lightsaber, when he had a clear shot at this guys head... Big mistake there. #5 Interesting fight. Could have used much more in terms of rehearsing, but if done with more practice, it would have been nice to watch. Ending was cute. #6 Nice job. Definitely the most original of the bunch. The feel of the whole film, the style, is very unique and very nice. Interesting story, and it was very nice the way it was executed. I enjoyed some of the acting. The fight choreography, for what was there, was nicely done. Each attack and defense was unique and original on it's own. No one was like the other. Also, kudos on the fact that you kept each bout short, much like real fighting. However, not much fighting for a fight choreography entry. #7 It was a bit weak, and went on for longer than it should have. If it's a long fight, you should present something new and interesting each time you progress. This was simple left, right, left right stick bashing at some points. Sure, sometimes you spun around, attempting something fancy, but it didn't work out very well. Cool job on doing some of it in the dark though. If all roto-scoped, it would have looked nice. #8 Definetly one of my favorites! Nice choreography. Well rehearsed, that's for sure. Smooth, and fast. At times it seemed like you guys kept too much distance from each other, but that's forgivable for what you presented. Aside from the lack of showing us how the light turned off, or how they turned on, I loved the fight in the dark. Very nice to see slight hints of a figure, with these lightsabers. The hidden man in the dark, the whole shabang was nice. That jump was great! Well done. The "thud!" sound really sold the jump. I really just enjoyed a lot of the camera work for this thing, and the choreography was very well executed. Nice job! #9 Ok, first of all, it seemed just too long for something so simple. It felt like I was watching the same thing over and over again, and had to fast forward. It needed a lot of work. There was no effort put into what the fight was. It all seemed to be a repeat of what he did before. Let me ask you something, when you're trying to kill someone, what do you do? That's the first thing you should be thinking of when choreographing a fight. Simple as that. You just looked like you were waving your sticks around. Sorry for being harsh, but it's what I really think. #10 Holy crapoli. Definitely a well executed fight. You guys really know your stuff. The effects were nice as well, (they acted as lightsabers but they weren't) and a nice way to avoid the endless hours of rotoscoping the those things. Well choreographed, and reshearsed. The fighting kept me in my seat the whole time. Nice use of the retracting of the 'saber'. That lightsaber throw and catch, followed by the confidence strut, very nice touch. Nice Camera work as well. This is definitely one of my favorites. #11 Bagpipes? When I hear bagpipes, it doesn't make me wanna fight. Got good when it turned to metal though. You should have cut the intro of the bagpipes, maybe left only 10-15 seconds of bagpapies, maybe for a nice stare off, then the metal begins when the fighting ensues. I'll give you points for attempting to do some nice, or fancy moves, but they didn't end up very well. the choreography needed work, and was so-so. #12 "Hey dudes! You wanna film a fight choreography thingy?" "Sure dude! But, umm, do you know how to do this, or film it, or anything?" "Nah dude, but it seems simple enough!" "Ok Dude! Let's do it now!" "Totally, Dude!" P.S. Please no melodic heavy rock for fight scenes... #13 Okay, I feel the need to judge this in 2 parts. Choreography This was just... bad. I'm sorry, but there was nothing to it at all. Hardly any fighting for that fact. You didn't work on anything for that. Not the look, the stances, even the way you walked or moved back seemed terrible. Don't chose such a small room for something like that. Special Effects Wow! Nice job! Like someone mentioned earlier, this needs to be done as an effects test more than anything. You fought yourself first of all, and that must have been hard to do, but some of these things just looked nice... but that jump and crash through the window really needed to be worked on. You also needed a sound for the window crashing. Everyone needs to learn how to use sounds properly. #14 When fighting for the sabers, for two martial artists, it really needed more diversity in what you did. Seemed real enough for a sword fight, but a real sword fight is usually not what people want to see on screen. The hand to hand was nice. You guys needed more of that. It was definitely the stronger part of the film. #15 A story around a lightsaber fight, laughable acting (the acting was there, but too over done), stick bashing. Yep, it's a fan film. For a bad guy, he didn't seem very menacing. His walk needs to instill fear into all those who seem him, but he walks like a robot. "Oh no! It's the 6 foot tall droid in black clothes who can swing a lightsaber, run!" That face mask, just bugged me as well. Worked for some shots that were darker, but in total, it was so so. Nice location and costumes aside from that hood. #16 Another of my favorites. First of all, you know what sounds are all about!!! You get major points for good sound editing, definitely beter than quite a few of these films. Felt very 70's kung fu at times as well, which was nice. Bad acting, like a bad 70's kung-fu movie! Yah! whoot! Nice touch. I really like some of the moves. The hand stop, the stick in the face, followed by flying through the air. Nice stuff. At times it could have used more practice, but it's nice none the less. Nice cinematography, and I liked the wash-over look you used. #17 Invisible sabers on white snow. That is what I shall call you. For what I could see, I really enjoyed this one. Nice choreography. Not much to say. Really nice for a three person, three sided fight. Not the best though. I didn't know Jedi fought in their pajamas. #18 Oh dear god! Please shoot me! I honestly have to say, I stopped watching this half way through because of that song! From what I saw... it looked more like a very bad choreographed dance, rather than a fight. 1, 2, 3, jump! 1, 2, 3, jump! Yeah... #19 I'm not one to always notice bad clothes, but yeah. Kudos for dressing up though. For a fight... yeah... it really needed to be cut down, cause there wasn't anything spectacular. Interesting music choice though! Seemed like... I don't know, but definitely added something to the film. Sometimes it didn’t work though. #20 White spy vs. Black Spy. This was an interesting fight. I had no sound, I’m assuming because the real sound was terrible, but it was really missing something. Some nice cinematography, and the choreography was definitely well executed (I’m using that word a lot). You guys really know your stuff. Very nice. Not much more to say than that. #21 I’m sorry, but I never liked it when 12 year olds or under are included in a fight. I don’t have much to say for choreography, except that it wasn’t very good, but that’s what you’ll get with a kid. But hey, I wish my dad were to film lightsaber fights with me. It would have been really cool and I could brag to all my friends, at least my nerdy ones. #22 Please practice your lighting skills. It seems like you were trying to use nice lighting at times, but it just distracted me the whole way through because it wasn’t done very well. Just ask anyone on these boards how to light a scene, and they’ll give you tips. Choreography, well it was sloppy, and simply put, terrible. I liked the “look I cut you lightsaber and it doesn’t work” part though. At least the guy had a menacing voice… good work on that… #23 Interesting concept. First of all, it really looks like you used actors for this thing. Nice acting. Nice effects, and the ending was cute, especially the wily coyote sign. The choreography, at one point seemed to pick up from it’s boring repetition, but then it was stopped. Why? It was okay. #24 I loved the jump from behind, the force push, and some effects. Aside from that, meh. It was practiced, but it was repetitive. #25 I’m sorry to say this, but I said I would be harsh. This is one of the worse fights I’ve seen. It wasn’t even the bad kind that I can share a laugh with. It was just bad. I’ll give it points for some nice behind the back blocks, but they were pointless and only for show. Again, it was repetitive, at least it was short though. Next time chose a larger room and this might be more interesting. Also, chose better music. Why can one person only see in red, and one in green? Is one bleeding and one high? #26 This fight just screamed out “cool” for me. Some nice cinematography, good music, you got the stances down, the choreography wasn’t the best, but it was good and well rehearsed. I loved some of the effects, but the cutting through the concrete, obviously needs some work. It was fun to watch. Not going to make my top 3, but is one of the beter ones IMO and it was close. #27 Ahh, numero 27… One of the two very original films in this fight choreography competition. The other being number 6. Even though there was no sound or music, I was able to watch all the way through. First of all, nice location! It was huge, it was fun, and gave us eye candy. The choreography could have been beter, but it was well rehearsed. At times it was nice, at times it lacked, and was overly long. The effects (they looked like on set visual effects some of them) were very nice. Nice effects. Also, very pretty girl. Oh lala. I wanted to see her fighting, but alas, too bad. Perhaps if you introduce her earlier on in the fight to bring more into it, rather than them just fighting the whole way through. Also, I had a good laugh with the guy touching the lightsaber. It was all in the editing. Final score Well, this is about fight choreography, but I just have to include some key things, like some editing, and cinematography into the mix. I don’t know what order, but my top 5 are #10, #8, #2, #20 and #16. Seeing as this has only three places on top, I’ll have to cut two. I’ll need to think on this one, and put them in order. -----signature----- GEEKS UNDERGROUND http://geeksunderground.com [Jon Starr Films] [ http://www.JonStarrFilms.com ] [Jonathan Starr]
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S-Suntoucher Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 1/11/05 1:35am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD - Date Edited: 1/11/05 2:02am (1 edits total) Edited By: S-Suntoucher
	Ok, my wife and I have seen all of them, and pretty much enjoyed ourselves with the views. We already have a couple of favorites, and we also have a few that we think could use a lot of help. No ill will towards any of the people who contributed though; everyone put in a lot of effort. I don't think my reveiws are going to be as in-depth as some of the others (like point systems, categories, etc), but it'll have our all our ideas and comments about each entry, as well as what we think could have made them better (if they "needed" to be). I'll try not to make this post TOO long, but hey, we already have a few tomes in here, so.... Anyways, here we go. --- 1: This one had a lot of promise, but it ended up being mediocre because of several flaws and missed opportunites. For starters, there wasn't much variety in blade technique. They just kept swinging at the same basic points over and over. The hand to hand attacks needed some improvement as well: they could have been sold better, and at times they weren't even needed. One thing that comes to mind for me is the hilt bash to the face that "Shades" does to the other at 0:40, after forcing him back from a blade clench. A stab or a swing would have been much more logical and realistic. Then there was the blade dodging and hopping that was going on. Nice idea, but there was no retaliation afterwards, like a stab right after docking a swing, or comign down with a chop after jumping over a sweep to the legs. Stuff like that would have spiced things up a bit. And it was very obvious at times that they were anticipating each others movements. Never good to see in a fight scene. Overal, it was decent, but needed more polish in the action. 2: Nice wire fu, but it needed more intensity. My wife said it looked like more arial ballet than fighting. And that spinning clash at the end sorta ruined it for both of us. In her words, "less floating, more fighting." This is what pissed me off about Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and I'm a major kung fu movie/Hong Kong action nut. Wire work can be done well, and be put to great affect in an action movie. We do see some nice examples here. But the thing is, the less floaty it looks, the better. Still, this one's a cut above a lot of the others. 3: This one looked like a video of some people playing Star Wars in their backyard, and then rotoscoped it. Yes, I know that in the end, that's what's being done around here, but it's not supposed to look like it. Several things could have helped. One, liven up the footwork. Dead feet usually equals dull fighting. I know not everyone here knows how to use a sword in combat, but the taller guy could have benifited from better stance work; it was painful to watch him slouching like that. The fighitng could have used a lot more speed and intensity, because again, it didn't really look like a fight at times... more like they were pretending. The Force push comes to mind as I say that, as well as the girl with the blasters... it just didn't seem real. One thing to note though: points for the red blade guy for some halfway decent left arm poise while he was swinging one handed. Too many people have dead left (or right I guess) arms when they fight one handed. 4: My wife just looked at me and uttered, "This... sucked. FOOTWORK, people FOOTWORK! And put some variety in techniques, not just 'bash bash bash' with the same moves over and over again." I'm not gonna say it all out blows, but there was a major lack of decent footwork, or in variety of blade techniques. It's been said many times before, but I'll say it again: the body of your opponent should be the main target, not the stick. And at the end, the whole dropping the saber to throw the Jedi? Creative, but unessisary. The Sith could have just stabbed the guy, and it would have been just as satisfying visually on screen, if not more so. Sorry, but not on the top of my list. I appreciate the effort though, and it WAS a good set up. 5: Cookies!! Laughed at the ending (I didn't think it was all that bad... it deserved a chuckle). But this is about the fighting, and it needed some work. A bit too slow, and while I didn't have a problem with the spin kicks, it all would have sold well if there was more intensity. Still a decent effort in my opinion. My wife felt this one was soild overall. She thought that even though it was slow, they sold it in the end. COOKIES!!! 6: This one is a personal favorite of mine, simply because I feel it's the most artistic of the entries. I love how the choreography gives us a sense of the Jedi master's skills. The character is obviously a master of his craft, with excellent control of his ablities. Very good technical movements in my opinion, and the emotional depth is apparent. There's just one problem: there isn't much excitement in this fight. Well, not a bare knuckle exceitment anyways. Still, I commend these guys. They tell a good story, and they made a clip that's staying on my harddrive. I have one question though: who is that guy watching them? He didn't need to be there I think. My wife thinks they should have developed that guy's involvement more if they were going to put him in a shot. We also are happy that there was a chick fighting in it, though she didn't get to do much. 7: I really wish this one wasn't done in the dark, it would have made it easier to check things. Completed rotoscoping would have helped, simply because we'd be able to make things out better. Still there was enough that was veiwable, and what I saw was decent, but not the greatest. The bigger guy in particular seemed a bit stiff; he would have been better suited to a fighting style with less needed for the attacks. And that slide at 00:47... what the heck was that? I think I get what they were trying to do, but it could have been done better. Still, they pull of a lot of cool moves, and there was some sweet footwork in this one. Solid effort overall. Me likes. 8: This was the first one to really catch my attention. Both me and my wife did a collective "OH... MY... DAMN!!!!" as it was going on. Even the jump effect was believable! Decent sword movents, though you can catch a little stick bashing. And the punches were well done. Still, there were times were I'd catch missed opportunites to finish the other off. One thing that got on my nerves for example: at 2:06 red sabre guy does this swooping move with his lightsabre that had no combat purpose whatsoever. His enemy had his back turned: red could have taken his legs out right there! Instead we get a swoop: what was that about? My wife noticed that right away. It's still in our favorites list though. 9: Another keeper. They kept the fierce pace up throughout the fight. It could have used more "oh snap!!" moves though. Still, if I saw that in the theatres, I would have been generally pleased. It's one of the faster ones in this compition, and while I've notived others consider it to be a lot of stick bashing, I saw a lot of cuts aimed towards the body. Good one guys, really good. It just sorta drags though, almost as it after a while the guys stopped trying to kill each other and wanted to see how long they could last repelling each others weapons. And the blade underneath the arm at 1:47... no way that could happen if this was a lightsabre... not unless he's a masochist. Still, we like. 10: This one is another top contender... might get the vote from me. Not only did it have damn good moves, high intensity, and lots of creativity, it also have something it has over a lot of the others I've seen: attitide. Plus, we can see into the personalities of the fighters, a mark of good choreography. My wife freaked when she noticed the psychological advantage that the guy in black was using. I still chuckle every time I see that little saber flip he does at 1:44, and at the end, when he just tosses the others sabre away. There are a few flaws though. There is a little too much twirling at times, particularly during 00:42, when they could have just swung. I see why they did it that way, but eh.... Still, they also have the best use of a twirl out of all of these entries: right at 1:57, Black turns a twirl into a sneaky little attack that Blue quickly blocks (I wanted to be the first to do that in a fan flick dammit!) Another flaw is Black's "Dead Arm Syndrome" at 1:49. Again people: put a little more life into that empty hand. Blue at least did a slightly better job of it I think. The slow motion at the end, while it bothered some other people, I actually didn't have a problem with, and my with felt it helped her to get a better appreciation for the techniques used. Overall, damn good choreogaphy, and another keeper. PLEASE rotoscope this when you get the chance! 11: There was a nice clash in the beginning... but then it just kinda went downhill from there. The hilt spinning trick was cool, and I liked the way the guy in the hat fliped his grip to sneak in a cut to the guys neck. But in the end, this fight wasn't very exciting for me. Decent effort though. 12: ...ok. This one might hane been a contender IMHO if it didn't seem so... lethargic. Moves were executed as if they really didn't care; there was hardly any exitement in the fight at all. That kills choreography, guys. It's a shame too, because some of the stuff you guys did would look really cool if you moved faster and added some more intensity. Sheesh, I just turned into Lucas: "Faster, more intense!" Still, you guys should take those words to heart if you do another one. 13:Very well done cgi and cloning project... and it was funny too. It's not the best lightsabre fight though, and that's what counts here. But I loved how he used the enviornment to great effect in this fight: I doubt we've seen anyone else go to such lengths. This kid's got promise. 14:This was very well presented. The "samurai" theme was so well done, that I immediately sent the file over to a practising kendo artist I knew, who also loved it. The fighting was good too... but only if you are one of those people who really appreciates seeing a lot of authentic movements put in, no matter how slow. It's kinda like watching the old Obi Wan verses Vader duel in ANH. You can appreciate it if you know something about real swordplay, and learn to enjoy it, but exciting it isn't. And that's what keeps this one from being one of my top favorites. I'll keep it in my harddrive though, especially for that "samurai finish" at the end. 15: Um, no. Hardly any footwork, same attacks used over and over again, and missed killing opportunites. It's nice that they tried to weave a plot in this, but the fighting was overly simplistic and basic. Basic doesn't win competitions. 16: Amusing, and decent fighting. Loved the dialoge. I'm sure they might have been just "banging sticks" though in a few spots. They did try to "sell" a lot of the movement with some decent camara angles, but you can still tell. One thing's for sure though, it isn't going to get any points on "lightsaber phisics". Still, I'm probably keeping this one around. My wife really liked the use of the brownish film tone. 17:Ah, much better. My wife says it's too flashy at points, and yeah I see what she means. That roll entrance that the twin sabre dude does... that did not need to be there. I know that other fighting films have done that... and I hate it in those flicks too. If there's nothing to dodge, there's no reason to roll, period. Still, the fighting was exciting overall, and had nice technical movements in the choreography. A lot of "skill" movements, though some other techniques were kinda sloppy. And while I'm only judging this on the choreography, I do feel that the lack of rotoscoping hurt this one somewhat, as it's hard to tell where the blades are at some points against the snowy background. Still, it's a contender. Note: I gotta find out what that tune was in the beginning. I'm a huge jungle/dumb and bass nut, and I loved that somebody FINALLY used a jungle track for a lightsabre action scene: I've wanted to do that for ages. And I'm always looking for more jungle beats for my collection; I love this stuff. Can somebody please tell me what that tune was? I'd really appreciate it. 18: Um... no. Weirdly funny in the beginning, but really... At least the chase in the beginning was decent, but the fighting was really lackluster. And the whole point of this competition is the fighting. 19:Well... it was good for the work of two kids. Probably would have passed in the early 70's (I'm not talking about the fro people... though good hair kid.). Still, the fighting's not all that exciting, so no trophy from me. They should keep at it though... they definately have creative minds. 20:Wow... chinese swordplay! That's my style, and I'd like to see more of this in lightsabre fan flicks (I gotta get rolling on mine). Note the body movement while they are fighting: freakin' excellent. The thing that holds this back though, is the somewhat hesitant fighitng. It wasn't as fluid as the others, instead there was this back and forth rhythm... sorta like those old kung fu movies. It's also somewhat slow at some points, and seems to need some more intensity (cue Lucas). Still, it's definatly above average. I'll keep it around. Notice: when they are going at it one handed (which is pretty much the entire fight) their empty hands aren't dead! This is the way to do it!! 21: Wow, well done kidling! Well done. The child really knows how to keep up with the pace. My wife is hoping her son gets to be that good. Still, the actual moves in the fight weren't anything special. They were pretty much repeating movements over and over agian, even when the adult switched to twin sabres. In the end, it was pretty basic. And again, basic doesn't win competitions. 22:Good for a tv show at least. But sheesh, too many flaws in this one. For starters, we have some lethargic fighting going on, only picking up some speed towards the end. There are also a few wasted moves, like the Sith's little figure eight spins at 1:33. I understand that that was to push them back, but blades should have at least contacted in the begining in order to sell that. And then there was the one handed fighting.... The Sith violates a widely violated rule with one handed swordfighting, the one I've been ranting on throughout these reviews: having a dead left hand. It get's some life towards the end, but still.... Dammit people, if you're going to fight one handed, the empty hand can't just hang there lifeless by your side. Hold it up for balance, or have it grab at the other guys arm at close range, or something. But don't let it just hang there, or hold it in some kind of gimpy position. That's a sign of no skill. And I know that most of the guys here who make these things really don't have any swordtraining... but you're protraying chracters that DO. So ACT the part! 23:Heheh... humorous, and decent fighting... though a bit too "meat and potatoes" for me. Why didn't you guys think of doing something like rapier fighting when you were on that catwalk? It would have been perfectly acceptible, and would have made more sense. The hacking at the guy while he was trying to get up really didn't help things either... first of all, the whole "hacking at the guy on the ground while he holds his sabre up in defense helplessly" shtick really has to go. It's incredibly stupid: If the first chop is blocked swing in another direction or stab! That's what would be done in real life, and there's no reason why it can't be done in movie fighting either. The combat did get better on the stage, and I loved that stab at the end to counter the high handed charging chop. About time somebody did that: it errks me to no end seeing people charing in like that and no quick retaliation to such a stupid move. Funny ending too. It's a keeper, but overall, not a winner. 24:Has some promise... but that's all. Nice begining, with the leaping attack and furious combat initially, but then it sorta drops the ball as the flick goes on. Things just got too slow and formulaic from the middle on... it was obviously that they were going through rehearsed movements. A bit more practice and finesse, and this probably would have been fanstastic. 25:I'm surprized that the bigger guy was actually able to move like that. Too much empty twirling, but that seems to be the fad, even in "professional" movies. There wasn't much in this fight that was all that exciting though, it all boiled down to a lot of basic movements. It could have helped if they were in a bigger area. Decent, at best. 26:Quick little flash in the pan. It definately deserves some style points... there seems to be a sorta "badass" element to it. There were times that the choreography was obvious though, like that behind the back block at 00:54. And the end of the fight could have been made clearer. Again, good, not great. 27:Wow... that one was REALLY well done overall... good story, good fighting, really funny scenes that aren't forced, some of which actually lend to the fighting, and very creative. The guy cutting his finger off has got to be the funniest moment in the whole movie. I also love how you guys used the environment throughout to add to both the story and the combat. This one's also a contender. And wow: it's actually got a chick ready to fight in it! We need more of that. Too bad she doesn't get the chance. Ugh. Well, that was a lot wasn't it? To sum up, here's my top 5: 10. It's just too damn good. 27. Great overall feel, and good use of envornment. 08. Good, solid, and smooth fighting, despite a few hiccups. 17. Nothing like a lightsabre free for all with jungle music (should have kept with the jungle throughout!!) 20. You get props because I'm into chinese martial arts. Honerable mentions: 09, 16, 06, and 02, in that order. -Suntoucher-
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QuiGonDave Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 1/11/05 2:01am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	How long will we still be able to vote? i'm now in school, and I want to vote at home.. (i'll be home in about 3.5 hours.) is the poll still up then? -----signature----- "An old friend has learned the path to immortality, one who has returned from the netherworld of the Force.. your old Master. How to commune with him, I will teach you." - Jedi Master Yoda
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Krintar Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 1/11/05 2:20am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Voting's supposed to last for two weeks, or thereabouts.
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QuiGonDave Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 1/11/05 2:23am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	alrighty -----signature----- "An old friend has learned the path to immortality, one who has returned from the netherworld of the Force.. your old Master. How to commune with him, I will teach you." - Jedi Master Yoda
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Funk-E Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 1/11/05 6:34am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	My in-depth comments are forthcoming. Man, if everyone gives good reviews, this thread is goign to end up being looooooong. -----signature----- I'm so adjective, I verb nouns. RIP George Carlin!
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Iyidin_Kyeimo Registered: Sep '00	Date Posted: 1/11/05 6:36am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	It seems to me there's going to be more than enough in depth coverage for anyone's liking, so I'll keep mine to brief personal highlights.. #06 - Hands down best film. Great story, fantastic costumes, acting was good and the effects were incredible. Best of the competition in all but choreography. However, even though there was only a limited amount of actual fighting, it was pulled off very well. Some great ideas in this one (voted 2nd) #08 - Nice work, some impressive moves, just didn't feel dangerous enough. Lightsabres illuminating faces was brilliant though! #09 - Great work here, speed was fantastic, particularly when the staff came out. Try one off the ice next time though, get your feet moving where you want them to.. (but for lack of footwork and some eratic blows, would have been 3rd) #10 - What can be said that hasn't already been mentioned. Knew this one was going to be good, wasn't disappointed. Even though I find myself judging this to a different level, it still stands up. Could have done without the slow-mo and the wrestling lacks conviction.. but Nick Gillard better get his finger out, or be embarrased. (voted 1st) #18 - Cracked me up, random slapping moments were classic, though in a choreography contest, I'm afraid that doesn't get you any marks.. #19 - Another one that really made me laugh... Sabre getting snagged on the bush and evil dude's sped up (surely?) decent of the stairs were the best moments, though the whole ineffectual fighting style was funny. Unfortunately, again, that's going to lose you marks in a choreography contest.. #20 - First one I saw that actually had decent choreography in it, so that might have biased me... but, this really impressed. The fighting was very stylised but even though there was a a bit too much head movement you obviously know what you're doing and the moves were excecuted very well (1:11, wow!). Particularly good footwork. Only complaint is the ending, both the white guy's crazy run and the random cut off, but this is more than compensated by the rest.. (voted 3rd) #27 - Fantastic stuff, loved the explosions/smoke etc. Choreography was good, just not quite good enough to be placed. Some great moments though, good use of the environment. Looks like a great place to work, making hilts all day must be a real bummer... -----signature----- TK-421 .... why are you doing this post? ________________________ http://www.istari-studio.co.uk
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G-Unit Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 1/11/05 7:12am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Wow, truly amazing all of them. Some were stronger in story and choreography than others but still the effort was seen. I'm not a choreography expert, but there was definitely some strong fights in #6 and 10. I also would love to see #10 rotoscoped. Great job everybody. When do we see the winners? -----signature----- Aaron Greer-Director/Writer/Producer http://www.nexthorizonfilms.com/ "I'd rather direct than produce. Any day. And twice on Sunday." Steven Spielberg Current Project- Gatekeeper
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DarthMeekAndMild Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 1/11/05 8:22am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Much respect just for entering. Even if it sounds like I dissed you in my reviews, I think it's cool that you entered, and comments were meant to be constructive. (Or funny. Sorry.) My votes: 1st place: #10 For me this just stood out from the rest. 2nd place: #27 I found this the most enjoyable as a film. 3rd place: #8 Very solid all the way around. Honorable mention: #2, #17, #20. Favorite moment: Shop guy's finger in #27 Favorite FX: The jump in #8 Favorite move: The table leap in #24 -----signature----- You, the reader, did not exist before you saw my sig. http://kurinboism.blogspot.com/
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georginiou Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 1/11/05 8:25am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	For me, No. 8 was by far the best. It was quick, passionate, had real intensity. Plus the effects were great. Only complaint is, there is a bit of slightly dodgy camera work where the camera crosses the line. And the cut where the lights come on is a little jarring. But still the stand out entry in my opinion. Really cool, never looked staged.(1st place). No 10 was also good, I think, had it not been for the slow mo, this would have been awesome. The wrestling looked a little bit forced though. The hits were great, real hard and not pulled-out softly. But, for some reason, it just lacked the rawness of entry 10.(i give No.10 2nd place). 3rd place, I'm unsure. Entry 20 was well choreographed, but it never felt dangerous, it was more balletic than brawl. I enjoyed No. 22, but more for cinematic reasons more than choroegraphic. Entry 27, had some good hits and intensity. So, that gets my third place. There you go!
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Padawan_John Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 1/11/05 9:05am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	My votes are as follows: 1st Place: Entry #27 Why? These people didn't just choreography their fight on a flat piece of pavement or in their backyard: they chose to employ a workshop, with a variety of surfaces (tables, benches, steps, etc) and with persons other than themselves in the area (the human shield was a brilliant move). I can only hope that there will be a conclusion presented to this fight. As much effort as was put into this much, brining a double-blade into the mix would be wonderful. 2nd Place: Entry #6 There is a lot to be said for presentation. The costumes, effects and cinematography added quite a bit to this entry. I can't say as I particularly enjoyed the musical selection, but that isn't the real criteria here. The distinctive and varied fighting styles are what did it for me here, and are the only the only reason I ranked this higher than my third place selection. 3rd Place: Entry #20 Speed, grace, precision and obvious dedication to the art of swordplay. If only every lightsaber duel in a fanfilm could have this level of intensity. Honorable Mention: Entry #10 Wow. I mean . . . . wow. That was my initial reaction. However, as I've watched each fight over and over and over again, narrowing down my favorites, this one lost out to the above entries for one very simple reason: It just looked too much like a featurette from an Official SW DVD. I'm not sure why that bothers my so much, but it does. However, I loved the way the double-blade was employed throughout the fight, both whole and in parts. Anyway, great work, all! Let's do it again in six months! -----signature----- "Han shot first." - Leia Organa-Solo; Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Betrayal, p 207 45.23809523809524% of me is a huge nerd! How about you? - http://ludicrousspeed.co.nr/nerdtest.html I'm so boss, I'm at the end of level 8-4.
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jorowi Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 1/11/05 10:11am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Well I d/l'd and viewed all the films last night. I basically watched them all one after the other and wrote down some initial thoughts. Later, I'll watch them again and pick them apart. Props to the boy in #21, you rock for a little guy. \m/ Some of the entries I didn't even finish watching; that "gut-feeling" caused me to stop watching them. I'll provide an in-depth analysis of my top three choices in the coming days. I will say this: what makes a good fight stick out (imo) is that it doesn't look choreographed. I also think the entries with incomplete FX make it difficult to judge the choreography because I'm constantly being distracted by saber glows appearing out of nowhere. Personally, I would have removed any FX if I couldn't complete them by the deadline. That being said, I'm no expert -- not by a long shot. I weigh my gut reaction with some observations and compare these saber duels to other duels I've been impressed with. All of the entries exceed anything that I could ever hope to come up with. Everyone did a bang-up job and I hope no fingers were broken during filming. -----signature----- The price of freedom is the blood of patriots. ******** http://www.bezahlt.org
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Jedi_Spiff Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 1/11/05 10:25am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Props to the boy in #21, you rock for a little guy HERE HERE! I was waiting for someone to say that, and I suspect a lot more of it is coming. -Spiff -----signature----- "There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there's a Canadian taxpayer." - RCAF Now a member of the unofficial Master Zap fanclub. PwNN: http://wbm.zenutech.com/WBFilm/SWPlanet.html
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NotTheEntry10Guys Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 1/11/05 10:49am Subject: RE: *LIGHTSABER CHOREOGRAPHY CONTEST III* VOTING / REVIEW THREAD
	Entry 10 will not be re-released with lightsaber effects.
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