Jedi Council Forums - Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness

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Author	Topic: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
DarthMeekAndMild Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 3/31/05 6:38am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	Surely the whole point of a fanfilm is that it is made by 'fans'. Sure. But surely for fan filmmakers the whole point of the TFN fanfilm forum is trying to make the best films we can. I mean, if someone wants to make a film that their friends will watch and go "Cool, you're in a Star Wars movie," and they're satisfied with that, more power to them. But that's not really who this forum seems to be for. This forum is for people who want to make films that complete strangers will watch and go "Cool, that was a good movie." And that requires a whole 'nother level of quality. But it is a hobby right? People get enjoyment from their hobbies yes? At least thats the way it should be. It seems to me that one of the points of making a film is that other people should be able to enjoy it too. Otherwise, why show it to anyone? Maybe some of us should just chill out and applaud the makers of fanfilms for having the dedication and the balls to make a film at all. I do, especially since I'm nowhere near beginning production on my own. But that doesn't mean I'm going to DL and watch a fanfilm just because somebody made it. And in this case, RocketGirl's constructive criticism has convinced me that this one isn't worth watching (yet; it sounds like if they take the criticism to heart and fix some things, this film could be quite good). -----signature----- You, the reader, did not exist before you saw my sig. http://kurinboism.blogspot.com/
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RIPLEY426 Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 3/31/05 6:46am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm - Date Edited: 3/31/05 6:48am (1 edits total) Edited By: RIPLEY426
	As my other post might already suggest I totally agree with RocketGirl and Jedi2016, with one addition to what he said. I guess what you said could be explained this way: A director is the person who controls the making of a movi in terms of viewing it from the audience's perspective. <Bla Anyway. What really upsets me about what JadedAngel and some others said is that they don´t realize that it is not only a "fan film made for fun". If you make up a movie this way, produce it in a professional way (allthough the result might not be that professional as it was supposed to be) and you really want it to be damn professional and the only difference is that it costed less money and that it is not original - then you can´t just excuse yourself and blaim the critics like this: "Sorry, it was made for pleasure!" because it implies the total conversion and contratiction of the entire essence and all that you did! You f****n made a movie and you announced it in a way that IS to be taken serious. So don´t be bothered if critics take it seriously and make serious (and constructive [I hate that word]) comments about it. Sorry, but that´s no excuse. If I am wrong, though, the label "fanfilm" is only an "Excuse for a product that has the OFFICIAL right of not being good in case it fails. -----signature----- http://www.darkmoonfilm.com
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Fandango Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/31/05 7:31am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	A word from the Director. It is impressive to see the vast array acknowledgments and comments from all who have viewed the site/film in one way or another. Although some views are a little harsh in context, they are nevertheless important valid points, and will be taken on board for future projects. I agree the length is an issue. Maybe it comes from my influences like The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, 2001 or Halloween. Theses films have long drawnout sequences that bore me to death. But I still admire them despite that. What I was was trying to do was break away from the traditional SW fan film and inject a little rawness. Use bleakness and silence as part of the narrative rather than 6 on 1 lightsabre battle. Create a calm before the storms. Maybe the styling was a little too different from what is expected. Who knows. Its all subjective. A point to consider when watching the project. This is our 'first' film. If this were the sixth or seventh posting then I would expect a "Come on guys, sort it out", "What a load of crap". We learnt as we went along, and alas, techniques we managed to master later on didn't make it into the final cut. I am aware of all the technical comments and again they have taken as points to progress upon We know you can't please all the people all of the time, and we never set out to cut a classical masterpiece. I believe the heart is there, even if the perceived quality of execution isn't. Thankyou
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Funk-E Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 3/31/05 7:36am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	Just get a more judicious editor. Make sure that every single frame of your film has a purpose, and don't let things run a second longer than that. -----signature----- I'm so adjective, I verb nouns. RIP George Carlin!
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DVeditor Title: Fan Films Evil Overlord (manager) Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 3/31/05 7:49am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	I second that. Generally speaking, if you keep working towards a speed that seems fast to you, most people will think it's perfectly timed. Just my two cents. -----signature----- CK Hicks http://www.ckhicks.com http://dveditor.deviantart.com TFN on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2202937735
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RIPLEY426 Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 3/31/05 8:26am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm - Date Edited: 3/31/05 8:29am (1 edits total) Edited By: RIPLEY426
	Just get a more judicious editor. Make sure that every single frame of your film has a purpose, and don't let things run a second longer than that. I third that Yesterday I have read an extract of the Making of Episode III, which was released on Hyperspace. And what is told there really underlines Funk-E's point: (non-direct-quote) "George looks at a sequence and finally decides to add 12 more frames to one shot. But he needs to shorten the film, rather than making it even longer. So he trims down another less important shot about 8 frames. 'I´ve got too many establishing shots. I will cut at least two or three out. This one and this one. They make no sense anyway' 'let´s do another 24 frames shot of Grivous' face.'" That really shows how limited everything is. George Lucas measures it out frame by frame. And that local TV and movie production company I´m working at for two weeks now always has limitations on their projects. Sometimes that go and shoot 30 minutes of footage for 8 hours to make a 1:30 minutes video for a TV show out of it. They really leave out anything that has at least one reason of not being in there! The good and beautiful and nice sounding and what not a single shot can be, if there´s a reason to cut it out: cut. It makes no sense then. The sad thing is that unexperienced directors (including some of us here) mostly don´t recognize their own mistakes in editing. That´s why there has to be a virginic audience before you release the movie. If some scenes don´t make sense they´re cut out. If they lead to nothing, they´re cut out. Every single word, every single shot, every single scene has a damn purpose (within the context of the story or within the relation between the audience to the story). And if there´s a reason not to show it- leave it out. It´s better not to show too much instead of too little. And that´s what I´m doing here. I´m repeating myself for no reason, as you did in the probe droid chase scene. EDIT: Advice for your next movie: Maybe it helps to make notes next to the script. Notes that say what the scene's purpose is. Example: Change of the relation between the main characters. Change of overall events. It gets night. It is dawn. Motive. -----signature----- http://www.darkmoonfilm.com
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Fandango Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/31/05 9:50am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	Good Points RIPLEY426. I think the main problem we had was there was a lot of footage. And I mean a lot. Probably 1 and a half hours. Cutting that down to the hour was easy, but when it started cutting into the effects work, then the pain set in. Like a lot of people who have done effects work, making a cut to a comp shot that took all day to gather together is gut wrenching. But, like you say, if its not working, slowing pace or not progressing the narrative, then it has to go. Again its early days. Thanks again
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Jedi2016 Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 3/31/05 10:20am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	The trick when working with effects sequences is to do the edit before any of them are actually completed. Use the animatics.. the "quickie" animated, crappy-rendered version, just for timing. That way, if a shot has to go, the FX guy is only out a few hours of work rather than a week's worth. I've had some stuff cut myself, but never after I'd already spent weeks completing it. That's the whole purpose of an animatic.. it's not just a guide for the full FX crew, it's also a guide for editing. -----signature----- Obey the fist! Every time you make a bad fanfilm, God kills a kitten. Please, think of the kittens.
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RIPLEY426 Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 3/31/05 10:28am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	Like a lot of people who have done effects work, making a cut to a comp shot that took all day to gather together is gut wrenching. Hell yes, you´re damn right. And that´s why I agree with Jedi2016 here. I´ve experienced it myself and I´ve always used the "animatics" or any other kind of place holder for the editing and I actually did most of the effects not one frame longer than they had to be. And it worked. -----signature----- http://www.darkmoonfilm.com
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Semaj Ovured Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 3/31/05 11:00am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	At times, I thought the music was woefully out of place. Like the Empire Theme during a light saber battle. And the scenes run far too long with all the action that goes on in the beginning. But it's nothing that some lean editing and some inserts of faces scowling won't cure. The CGI is solid, though. That's it for now. More later when I have the time. -----signature----- STARFLEET RENEGADES http://www.starfleetrenegades.com RED ALERT!
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RIPLEY426 Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 3/31/05 11:35am Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	Uhm, I just notice something important. The basic idea of this particular movie and the story has a lot of potential. A lot more than many other fanfilms. There´s just these technical problems. I was actually quite impressed with the beginning. (story-wise) -----signature----- http://www.darkmoonfilm.com
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Obi_One_Kenodi Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 3/31/05 1:04pm Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	I would like to comend this films makers for actually posting their fan film trilogy, instead of just saying "hi, my fanfilm is teh uber rockz!!!111!!" and then never making it.
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RocketGirl Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 3/31/05 9:22pm Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	I'm sure they'll take on board all the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism they have received and adjust their film accordingly. Having looked at your previous posts, I think you have a strange idea of what 'contructive' is. Just saying "it stinks" without anything to go with it, that's unconstructive. Harsh tone, but explanations of what is wrong and why, with ideas of how to fix it is constructive. You seem to have "harsh/rude" confused with "unconstructive". "That stank." Unconstrucive. "This was horrible, awful, the worst! The pacing was all off! Edit it down, tighten up the pacing and it might actually be worth watching!" Constructive. Tactless, but constructive. -----signature----- Introducing new Dark Side RocketGirl™: Quicker, Easier, More Seductive!™ "Duuude, the fat guy totally just blew up!" -Pink Five My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/BionicDance Read my webcomic: http://kanirabaxter.comicgenesis.com/
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RocketGirl Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 3/31/05 9:37pm Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm
	I agree the length is an issue. Maybe it comes from my influences like The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, 2001 or Halloween. Theses films have long drawnout sequences that bore me to death. But I still admire them despite that. [/'b] See, this doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. You admire something that bores you to death? What about them is admirable? Is that directly and inextricably tied to the parts that also bore you to death? Or can you extract the admirable bits and leave the boring stuff on the cutting room floor? [b]What I was was trying to do was break away from the traditional SW fan film and inject a little rawness. Use bleakness and silence as part of the narrative rather than 6 on 1 lightsabre battle. Create a calm before the storms. Personally, I can be a bit of a purist; when you're making a fan film, I think trying to "re-imagine" it is a mistake unless you're going for comedy. What kind of fan doesn't have respect for the original material? But even that aside, there are some fan films that break away from the traditional mold that are very worth watching. Conspiracy doesn't have a scrap of on-screen action in it, it doesn't have an opening crawl or the Star Wars logo, there isn't a lightsaber to be found anywhere. It's a slower film...and yet it is one of my personal favorites. Why? Because even despite the slowness of it, it remains interesting. The "action" is the interplay between the characters; in many ways the pace is almost break-neck fast, but because it's almost entirely exposition and intrigue, it gives the appearance of being slow. Unfortunately, the slow parts in your fan film were just slow...and my attention wandered. The characters never realy had moments: they never bantered, they never reminisced, they never really related to each other in any way that wasn't related to the major plot line. I never felt like I got to know them at all. When the action slows down, that's the perfect time to wax dramatic...or you lose people. Maybe the styling was a little too different from what is expected. Who knows. Its all subjective. I don't think defeated expectations were the problem, honestly. Considering the number of people whose comments can be boiled down to "Get on with it!", I think it was just plain paced too slowly. If you were trying to build a "calm before the storm", usually there's an undercurrent of tension in such calms; it's a deceptive calmness. Build it up, make us tense. Even while nothing is happening, you can whip your audience into a frenzy of anticipation with good camera angles and intense music. But this wasn't done; the common theme in these posts is, "We were bored; tighten it up!". I think the only defeated expectation here was your expectation of the audience's attention span. Just sayin'. Oh, and while I'm completely not on the subject, why the refugees from "Deliverance"? Why the Star Wars equivalent of rednecks? I fully expected them to say, "Okay, Jedi...squeal like a piggy!" (or should it be "squeal like a Gamorrean"?). It seemed...really out of place and unnecessary, especially as it made no difference to the plot in any way that I could see. -----signature----- Introducing new Dark Side RocketGirl™: Quicker, Easier, More Seductive!™ "Duuude, the fat guy totally just blew up!" -Pink Five My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/BionicDance Read my webcomic: http://kanirabaxter.comicgenesis.com/
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AzerNik Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 3/31/05 10:20pm Subject: RE: Crimson Contention IV: Spirit of Darkness - New Fanfilm - Date Edited: 3/31/05 10:26pm (1 edits total) Edited By: AzerNik
	I don't think defeated expectations were the problem, honestly. Considering the number of people whose comments can be boiled down to "Get on with it!", I think it was just plain paced too slowly. If you were trying to build a "calm before the storm", usually there's an undercurrent of tension in such calms; it's a deceptive calmness. Build it up, make us tense. Even while nothing is happening, you can whip your audience into a frenzy of anticipation with good camera angles and intense music. I haven't watched the film yet so it may truly be too slow, but I do think that sometimes things can be subjective. For example: The movie Good Bye, Dragon Inn is paced very slowly, there's probably not a shot in the film that lasts less than a minute. Nor does it have intense music. Quite frankly, if you were to show it to a lot of people they'd probably say "Get on with it!". And yet, to get on with it would spoil it; there's a definite anticipation that builds, more due to the lack of tension building devices like music and skewed camera angles than otherwise, I think. So does that anticipation pay off? I think so. Again, I'm not saying a movie can't be paced too slowly, but sometimes it is subjective. It's late and I'm rambling. Later. -----signature----- Long live all of us crazy soldiers who were born under calico skies May we never be called to handle All the weapons of war we despise
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