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Topic:
Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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MasterZap
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 12:47am
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
- Date Edited:
5/15 12:50am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
MasterZap
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Teague posted:
Zap, how would you go about using Add, with sexy Zap tricks? I know the basics, but a brief run through of what goes through your head would be valued.
The easiest answer to this question is that you go to my siggraph masterclass.
The important thing to realize is that a computer monitor is a non-linear device. That means that if we talk about color components in the 0-255 range, it is quite important to understand that 254 is NOT twice as bright (in measured luminance off your monitor surface) as 127.
The non-linearity of the monitor sort-of follows the non-linearity of our eyes, so 127 "looks" to be about half as bright as 254, because of how our eyes are wired.
But in reality, 127 is only about 20% of the emitted light than 254.
So if your software does "dumb math" and thinks that 127+127=254, it will actually, speaking in *real light coming off your screen* do 20%+20%=100%. And I dunno about you, but I never learned 2+2=10 in school!
And in a world where 2+2=10, of COURSE your additions "blow out to white" really quickly - the math is wrong!
You have to forget the notion that pixel values (0-255) are linear to luminance - they are not. On a standard sRGB computer screen (with a gamma of 2.2) the PROPER addition of 127 + 127 is 174. The color 174 is twice as bright as the color 127.
Conversly, 127 is NOT half as bright as 255. 186 is half as bright as 255.
So, your software will have to take care of this.
I think in newere PS and even AE there is ways to acheive this with the new color space stuff, or checkboxes like "blend layers in linear" or whatnot. I'm not too hip on the latest AE stuff since I havn't used it for AEons (pun intended  ).
Back in the day of AE5.5 you would need tools like "eLin" to do this more or less manually. It would convert your "video" color space (which is nonlinear gamma encoded stuff, i.e. sRGB) to linear 16 bit, do your math there, and convert it back to nonlinear gamma encoded at the end for viewing.
Nowdays AE can do this w. floating point compositing, but I'm really the wrong guy to tell you the exact "how's" (i.e. what button to push) since I havn't touched AE for years. It's there, so much I know
You can read some of my rambling here and here (mostly from a renderer mindset, but the theory applies to all math performed on RGB values) but just google Linear Workflow could be useful as well...
With a little luck I'll have linearworkflow.com with some actual content on it in time for siggie. We'll see, tho. I also have a bout a zillion other things for siggie so it may end up a dead end...
/Z
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Laszlo
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
5/15 5:27am
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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MasterZap posted:
EDIT: Okay, it is a "superambitious hobby project". For being that, it looks fab! Can't wait to see this baby!
Yup. I’ve been keeping an eye out on this for a while. It’s pretty much the high ceiling of an garage film that’s not a studio direct-to-video project. Unfortunately there’s no wide theatrical distribution yet; it's showing at Cannes this week and Tucson & San Francisco later in the month. Myself I’m hoping they’ll be a screening either at FantAsia Fest in Montreal or Toronto After Dark. Lionsgate will be releasing the DVD.MasterZap posted:
BTW, Lazlo, as we are swapping steampunk, have you checked out Iron Sky?
Oh hells yea.  I interviewed the guys last year for SFS and they were teasing me with the lack of details. It’s good to finally see some footage!
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-Spiff-
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
5/15 5:35am
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
- Date Edited:
5/15 5:48am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
-Spiff-
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MasterZap posted:
I never learned 2+2=10 in school!
Oh Base 4, how you come in handy
MasterZap posted:
Nowdays AE can do this w. floating point compositing, but I'm really the wrong guy to tell you the exact "how's" (i.e. what button to push) since I havn't touched AE for years. It's there, so much I know
It's really easy actually.
In the clip properties you define the colour space of the clip itself (sRGB, YUV.709, etc.) depending on the acquisition source. If the clip has the appropriate meta-data, this may be built in. But it could also be wrong and need fixing.
In the project properties you define the colour space of the project, and click "blend using linear" and set colour processing depth to 32 bpcc. Depending on what codec you're rendering to, you may have some problems with gamma on decode, so you should do a quick few tests to see if the colour on playback is the same as the colour in AE.
Once done, "add" is the new "screen" and you proceed as normal, never ever using screen again. You will find that colour correction behaves differently though. Colour balance no longer works (you'll need hue/sat or curves), and "exposure" replaces "brightness". Some other crappy hacky filters will no longer work properly, if they don't support 32-bit operation. Increasing the brightness of coloured objects will cause them to blow out to white. Likewise, motion blurring bright coloured objects results in the edges fanning to colour. Keyed edges blend properly over bright backgrounds. In short, everything is better.
-Spiff
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Eclipse SE now available: http://boards.theforce.net/fan_films/b10015/28647876/p1/?26 Spiff(x, |x-Phi|<small) = twitterpated FREE THE QUARKS!!!
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MasterZap
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 5:39am
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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-Spiff- posted:
MasterZap posted:
I never learned 2+2=10 in school!
Oh Base 4, how you come in handy
-Spiff
Oh Coffee-from-monitor wiper, how you would come in handy if you existed. LOL.
/Z (slurps 0xC0FFEE)
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Robi-Wan
Registered:
Oct '06
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Date Posted:
5/15 6:05am
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
- Date Edited:
5/15 6:20am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Robi-Wan
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VaporTrail posted:
I'm hoping for two things here.
A) You found a way to copy and paste.
B) You're going to use this for something other than playing around w/ a shot from Constantine.
Good flick, but what prompted you to create the image? Couldn't you have found/made a picture of a fence which would've been more easily composited?
Coloring of the foreground could use some work. It's too bright, perhaps?
Copy and paste? You can copy and paste masks? Yeah, I did. If I didn't, that would've been madness.
It's not going to be used for something, other than as a wallpaper on my monitor :P
I got the idea when I was out walking with my nephew and he walked up to the fence to look at the dog. I took a picture and a week later I did this. What background I was going to have I hadn't decided until after all the masking. I just googled for an image of a destroyed city and picked one that looked cool.
I also liked Constantine. Who would've thought the devil is really Sweedish 
PixelMagic posted:
This is madness.
Hehehe, thanks.
elemental_fantasy posted:
I dont think the composition blends too well, I would lower the contrast and brightness as well as saturation (big time) on the 2nd image of the 102 masks, and damn, all that masking, thats insane, looks really great Robi!!!
Thanks. I'll make some adjustments to the picture.
elemental_fantasy posted:
I also love the H.P. work in progress effects your doin. 
Thanks. It's a try, at least. A hard one.
EDIT: How about this?
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Registered May '06. http://www.aurellia.net http://heirobin.blogspot.com/ I cut my finger. That's tragedy. A man walks into an open sewer and dies. That's comedy.
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Boter
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 8:42am
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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GLaDOS posted:
Ah-! You think you're doing some damage? two plus two is... ten. IN BASE FOUR I'M FINE!
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Organizer, TF.N Filmmaking Workshop III Member, Key Pixel Gathering of Filmers (partial filmography in profile)  s for Alana, s for Grampa Tony. I Knew a Jedi. What *IS* Meatball?
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PixelMagic
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:33am
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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Robi-Wan posted:
EDIT: How about this?
Nice, but you need some lightwrap, and some edge feather (ever so slight)
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http://danielbroadway.blogspot.com "I don't really care as much about looks, as long as it's simple and black" -Cryptite
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VaporTrail
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 11:04am
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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Huh.
I didn't know that Goku's hair would actually work in real life.
Close enough, I guess.
-Vaportrail
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DorkmanScott
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 12:05pm
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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VaporTrail posted:
Huh.
I didn't know that Goku's hair would actually work in real life.
Close enough, I guess.
-Vaportrail
Hollywood is slowly turning me into that Internet Movie Guy who sees every piece of news or imagery regarding every big movie and goes "This movie will suck."
The bitch of it is that I'm pretty consistently right.
I WANT TO LIKE MOVIES. MAKE MOVIES I LIKE HOLLYWOOD.
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Laszlo
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
5/15 12:24pm
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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I'll let Vern sum it up for me Mike:ALVIN AND THE CHIPMUNKS made more than twice as much [as compared to Speed Racer] in its opening weekend. In fact, in its opening weekend it made $11 million more than David Fincher's ZODIAC made in its entire run. That's how it works, friends. Sometimes great movies are beloved and popular, sometimes they are only beloved. Sometimes trash gets buried, sometimes it gets its own private island in the Bahamas just to use for storage. We as film enthusiasts should probaly start evolving beyond the ancient superstition that these things are important or meaningful. What happened here is the Wachowskis made a strange movie that has not immediately caught the attention of billions of people. Life goes on.
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PixelMagic
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 12:29pm
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
- Date Edited:
5/15 12:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
PixelMagic
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DorkmanScott posted:
The bitch of it is that I'm pretty consistently right.
It truly is the only constant in the universe.
On a side note, that's unfortunate about Speed Racer. I saw it opening weekend, and I enjoyed it. It's not the greatest movie ever (because nothing will ever beat Back to the Future), but it's sufficiently entertaining.
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http://danielbroadway.blogspot.com "I don't really care as much about looks, as long as it's simple and black" -Cryptite
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VaporTrail
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 12:56pm
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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And for something like that, that's good enough.
I'm not looking for anything exceedingly special with those sorts of movies, just fun.
-Vaportrail
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PixelMagic
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 2:31pm
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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Wow, it's been 10 Years since the last episode of Seinfeld aired. Hard to believe. The greatest sitcom of all time.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-seinfeld-10-years-gallery,0,2191902.photogallery
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http://danielbroadway.blogspot.com "I don't really care as much about looks, as long as it's simple and black" -Cryptite
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The Jedi Apprentice
Registered:
Nov '99
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Date Posted:
5/15 2:40pm
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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That IS hard to believe! Damn, 10 years.
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Bryan Harley Los Angeles, CA AMF Productions - http://www.amfproductions.com Home of "SUPERHEROES," "TMTTTJ," "Murder Most Fowl"... and more terrible films!
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DorkmanScott
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 2:45pm
Subject:
RE: Iron Thread of the Obsidian Socializers: Social Thread v7.0
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Laszlo posted:
I'll let Vern sum it up for me Mike:ALVIN AND THE CHIPMUNKS made more than twice as much [as compared to Speed Racer] in its opening weekend. In fact, in its opening weekend it made $11 million more than David Fincher's ZODIAC made in its entire run. That's how it works, friends. Sometimes great movies are beloved and popular, sometimes they are only beloved. Sometimes trash gets buried, sometimes it gets its own private island in the Bahamas just to use for storage. We as film enthusiasts should probaly start evolving beyond the ancient superstition that these things are important or meaningful. What happened here is the Wachowskis made a strange movie that has not immediately caught the attention of billions of people. Life goes on.
But Speed Racer is trash and deserves to get buried. The system does still work.
Besides, I'm not talking about the popularity of trash (which is still relatively low), but the fact that the studios keep MAKING it.
The studios have dared to claim that the movie business is in a "slump" and people just aren't going to movies anymore. It's not because people don't want to go to movies, they don't want to go to THE MOVIES YOU'RE MAKING.
The audience is smarter than anyone wants to give them credit for. Even folks I work with, I'll point out a problem and they'll go "No one will ever notice that."
"But...I noticed."
"You're smarter/more film savvy than the average audience member."
"Be that as it may, there ARE others out there like me. If the 'average' audience member won't notice either way, and it's an easy fix, why not actually take the portion of the audience that will notice into consideration?"
"Eh."
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