Scott_M posted:this constant lock-focus on the Force, like that's the be-all end-all point of the Star Wars universe, Well based on Obi-Wan's description in ANH - yeah it kinda IS the be-all and end-all. What with all that universe binding and everything. Of course it doesn't need to be and nor should it be a focus for every story (or even mentioned), but if the Force were balanced like it's supposed to be - why does nothing actually change post-ROTJ?
Scott_M posted:this constant lock-focus on the Force, like that's the be-all end-all point of the Star Wars universe, Well based on Obi-Wan's description in ANH - yeah it kinda IS the be-all and end-all. What with all that universe binding and everything.
Scott_M posted: Of course it doesn't need to be and nor should it be a focus for every story (or even mentioned), but if the Force were balanced like it's supposed to be - why does nothing actually change post-ROTJ?
RocketGirl posted:Why should the Force being in balance affect anything but Force users?
VaporTrail posted:RocketGirl posted:Why should the Force being in balance affect anything but Force users? "For my ally is the force...and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the force around you, here between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship." Ask a simple question... I always thought the Force affected everything, even those who can't sense or manipulate it. Not really sure what he's aruging, I just saw your statement and thought I'd share. -Vaportrail
Cara_Undercover_Jedi posted:I think I see what you mean, though. Listening to the technical criticism could be good for you. But criticism on the story? That's what I mean about not listening. People who go after the STORY or the GENRE should be ignored. Pointing out that you 'crossed the line' when cutting between actors, or the editing could be sped up a bit, or a certain thing doesn't further the plot...that's okay. I'll listen to that.
Jace Taran posted:You know, I should point out the fact that most of the Force-focus in fan films hasn't even been on the Force in general; all fan films ever use the Force for is to include some flashy move of some kind in battle. I would imagine that there is a lot more to be done with the Force than just a bunch of acrobatics during a saber duel, only fan films never make the attempt.
NZPoe posted:But that's the crux - is it fair to criticize fan filmmakers who have SO MUCH to learn technically and have little means to teach themselves barring making bad films over and over again till they get good?
NZPoe posted:Personally I don't feel that good stories make good films - I think good directing, acting and photography make good films and will help to overcome bad storytelling.
RocketGirl posted:NZPoe posted:Personally I don't feel that good stories make good films - I think good directing, acting and photography make good films and will help to overcome bad storytelling. Again, I disagree. I've seen Hollywood movies overloaded with good and famous actors, directed by well-known directors, shot by professional teams, and guess what...they were crap. Why? Because the writing was terrible, the characters were not engaging or memorable, and the story was just plain dumb. EVERYTHING has to start with a good script or you might as well be making music videos.
NZPoe posted: If that really, truly, genuinely were the case then I think people on this site would be far more forgiving of the countless, arguably cringe-worthy, backyard productions that have appeared on this site.
NZPoe posted: What works have truly garnered acclaim? What works have been the internet phenomenon that so many fanfilmers secretly, or not so secretly, dream of? What fanfilms have lived on as part of major culture - carried on by its larger audience? The answer is fanfilms that hit the nail both on story and production value, neither of which are tethered by mere factors as money or availability of resources, but are more so influenced by ingenuity, talent and skill.
NZPoe posted: The path to good filmmaking is far more difficult, and for a lot of people on this forum, not even worth the journey (and many filmmakers on this forum have publically acknowledged that they have no interest in refining that part of their skills, instead being more interested in writing, fight choreography or special effects).
NZPoe posted: Or on the other hand you get what you describe - empty, soulless, dumb, boring, Hollywood-style fan films....that, sadly, garner all the attention from the fanfilm audiences and the greater world/media alike. Which isn't fair and, yes, those films are pretty boring at the end of the day...but they still get the lion's share of attention even if it is undue. My take on it is that I don't really know what the point is at all in giving harsh criticism for fanfilms.
NZPoe posted: But, for what it's worth, I don't bother with giving most of these fanfilms the same treatment I would give the next Spielberg or Michael Mann film. That's not what they were made for nor was it the makers intention that they be treated that way.
NZPoe posted: All it really means is that "serious" fan-films were - probably - never a real phenomenon. Many fanfilms were "serious" from the audience's point of view, but they probably never were from the point of view of the filmmakers.
RocketGirl posted: But, again, I don't. Remember my criticism of Cloverfield; I was not entertained...to entertain me, give me more monster. I'm not saying it has to be focused on for the whole movie, but ten+ minutes hanging out in a subway, and another fifteen climbing up that building to rescue that dumba-- girlfriend, and so on...I'm snoring!
Rocketgirl posted: I'm not too concerned with fair; I'm much more concerned with productive, contructive, and entertaining. The only way you're ever going to learn is by messing up, having someone point it out and point out why, and then fixing it. That someone can be you...but sometimes you get so close to a project that you can't see the faults, and then you have to rely on other people.
Rocketgirl posted: EVERYTHING has to start with a good script or you might as well be making music videos.
Cara_Undercover_Jedi posted: So seeing is beleiving? In other words, they treated the monster like wind; you saw its' effects, not the source.
C_U_J posted: Maybe the filmmakers were trying to play on a common human fear; fear of the unknown.
C_U_J posted: You don't even KNOW what's going on. Your reveiws of Cloverfeild, however, was purely subjective. You didn't like it 'cause it didn't entertain YOU (I assume you couldn't see the point of the story, either?).
NZPoe posted: Rocketgirl posted: I'm not too concerned with fair; I'm much more concerned with productive, contructive, and entertaining. The only way you're ever going to learn is by messing up, having someone point it out and point out why, and then fixing it. That someone can be you...but sometimes you get so close to a project that you can't see the faults, and then you have to rely on other people. Uh...that's what I was trying to SAY. I mean people need practice!
NZPoe posted: Rocketgirl posted: EVERYTHING has to start with a good script or you might as well be making music videos. I resent that remark. Music videos are how I got started. I agree; story is key to making good movies, but that does not rule out using the materials availible. You've said many times that you'd like a good story even if it was told in a garage. I disagree. Good story means nothing if you can't tell it clearly, and in a way that will entertain.
RocketGirl posted:Exactly...which is why it often bothers me a bit that it seems the fan film world has decided to limit itself. You know...to lightsabers, Jedi, Sith, and the Force.
