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Author	Topic: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
RocketGirl Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 1/6/08 8:35pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	DVCPRO-HDeditor posted: You have to remember, RocketGirl, that history is written by the victors of any conflict - and, as we know, the Jedi end up "winning" by the end of the Saga. Who's to say that, a thousand years ago, the wicked Jedi didn't undermine and destroy the benevolent Sith? After all, Palpatine said "At last, we will have peace." Yeah, but...Palpatine's a tool. :P Besides, we have plenty of evidence that the Jedi are benevolent and that the Sith are really, really not; the Dark Side is NOT just misunderstood. DVCPRO posted: How is the destruction of the Sith by Luke any different than the destruction of the Jedi by Anakin? The Sith kill innocents, they grab for power; the Jedi protect and are content with their place in the galaxy. This isn't hearsay; we've seen it, on screen. Doing away with the Sith--which happened, BTW, after they made themselves a serious threat, not just to the galaxy but to Luke personally--was like a police action, or slaying an evil dragon. It was hardly deliberate genocide, more like self-defense. DVCPRO posted: Why aren't the Rebels labeled as terrorists and seditionists in the CT, as they should be by any just standards? ...CT? I know OT and PT...whatinhell is the CT? In any case, they're freedom fighters, and everybody knows it. "It's not that I like the Empire, I hate it..." etc. DVCPRO posted: Of course, to pull off a fan film that portrays the Sith in a not-so-negative light, one would need a compelling, sympathetic sort of main character who only wants power to restore the galaxy to its rightful order. ...and who kills innocents just because they're in the way, strangles their subordinates (sometimes to death), willingly blows up entire planets, etc, etc... -----signature----- Introducing new Dark Side RocketGirl™: Quicker, Easier, More Seductive!™ "Duuude, the fat guy totally just blew up!" -Pink Five My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/BionicDance Read my webcomic: http://kanirabaxter.comicgenesis.com/
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ShadowDuelist Registered: Sep '06	Date Posted: 1/6/08 8:37pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	Say we've got a Jedi, post order 66. Hes already ditched his saber, cause thats a dead givaway, and some plot device means he can't use the force. Now create a story about him trying to survive in the galaxy without the superpowers hes used to having. Could be interesting. -----signature----- Give a man a womp rat and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to hunt womp rats and he will blow up the Death Star. Looks, its a badgerconda!!! Zeppelin! http://xkcd.com/288/
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DVCPRO-HDeditor Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 1/6/08 8:41pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	RocketGirl posted: And...if you can...try to set something during the Rebellion; seems like every fan film is set either before it or after it, like the Galactic Civil War has to be avoided at all costs, probably because of lack of potential for Jedi action... Actually, given the amount of EU material that's been stuffed into that time period (from the Battle of Yavin through the Battle of Endor, which is only four years), I can see why a lot of writer/directors have shied away from that era. There's this huge gap from about 3,995BBY - 1,020BBY and 1,021BBY - 33BBy that hasn't really been dealt with a whole lot, though. That's right: from the Jedi Civil war up through the Battle of Ruusan (a huge kriffin' Jedi vs. Sith battle), and then from that up until Palpatine started moving into his end game maneuvers. That's where I'd really like to play. There's also that gap in between Episodes III and IV, but I'm pretty sure that Lucas is going to have that gap officially plugged within a few years. And it's always nice to have the story you want to tell not conflict with other parts of the story, right? -----signature----- "Murder is not a bannable offense here on TFN." ~ AdamBertocci Let Me Google That For You: http://tinyurl.com/5p4arw
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DVCPRO-HDeditor Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 1/6/08 8:51pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	RocketGirl posted: The Sith kill innocents, they grab for power; the Jedi protect and are content with their place in the galaxy. This isn't hearsay; we've seen it, on screen. And Jedi are also willing to order faceless, nameless soldiers to their deaths. RocketGirl posted: Doing away with the Sith--which happened, BTW, after they made themselves a serious threat, not just to the galaxy but to Luke personally--was like a police action, or slaying an evil dragon. It was hardly deliberate genocide, more like self-defense. Which, I'm trying to point out, is propaganda. Yes, the Sith did horrible things to win the war. But were the Jedi, or the Rebels, really any different? It would be an excellent theory to follow through on in a film - in particular, a film that addressed the Jedi/Sith schism as a form of religious intolerance. RocketGirl posted: ...CT? I know OT and PT...whatinhell is the CT? That would be the Classic Trilogy. RocketGirl posted: In any case, they're freedom fighters, and everybody knows it. "It's not that I like the Empire, I hate it..." etc. "It's not like I love the Bush administration, I hate it..." (Just using a real-world analog, mind you.) RocketGirl posted: ...and who kills innocents just because they're in the way, strangles their subordinates (sometimes to death), willingly blows up entire planets, etc, etc... Power is gained in order to be kept. Windu was willing to bypass the legal system and execute Palpatine. Yoda also attempted to assassinate a head of state. How is the "oppression" of the Sith (which we never see directly on screen, I'd like to point out) any different from the baby-snatching, mind-wiping, limb-chopping methods applied by the "heroic" Jedi? I'm not really trying to argue, but you've got to admit, this sort of discussion would make for a terrific film. -----signature----- "Murder is not a bannable offense here on TFN." ~ AdamBertocci Let Me Google That For You: http://tinyurl.com/5p4arw
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Jace Taran Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 1/6/08 9:09pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	Oh, yeah, I think diversity is a must as well, if you want to tell a truly good story. I never meant to imply that Jedi had to be there. In fact, when I said that someone could come up original stories that featured Jedi, I wasn't saying stories that centered on Jedi, just soried that, as I said, featured Jedi and/or Sith characters. I never meant to exclude anything. So yeah, I wasn't arguing in favor of ignoring other aspects of SW. I don't think Jedi should be included at all costs; my argument was more that we shouldn't exclude them at all costs either. So, essentially, you were right about the devil's advocate thing; that's pretty much what I was doing. I just wanted to dispell the myth (well, I think it's a myth anyway) that all Jedi/Sith stories have been exhausted, and that there would be no way to include Jedi in a good story I(and include them in a good way, I might add, not just to pump up the action). The very best fan films tell a good story, and that's really the importand thing. A good story can feature a Jedi, or it can feature a Rebel, or it can feature a bounty hunter, or some combination (by feature, I again mean here include, rather than center on at the exclusion of all else). The best stories include diverse characters, like the OT. Even the PT, which focuses far more heavily on Jedi/the Force, is more inclusive of the GFFA than your average Jedi fan film. A good story is one that features characters that enrich it. If a Jedi character enriches it, then fine. If not, then they're not needed, and they actually detract from the story & water it down. When thinking of a story, my belief is that first of all, you should think critically of what you want to do, and not do anything simply because of trends, or what you think would be "cool," or whatever. The focus should always be on what tells a good story. If through critical thinking you realize that your Jedi vs Sith is just a re-hash of every Jedu story ever done, then you should fix it. That may dictate doing a story completely devoid of Jedi alogether, but it might not. My second belief is that something should not necessarily be discarded altogether just because it's been done before (actually, I don't think anything should be discared without critical thought). I think that while you have to think critically about what to include, you also have to think critically about what not to include. If your story would be improved by having a Jedi character, then you should probably give it some thought. Doesn't mean you have to include said Jedi by any means; I'm just arguing that such a thing should not be discarded off-hand without a second thought. After thinking critically about it, you may still decide not to include certain aspects (like Jedi), but at least you thought about it rather than tossing it out from the get-go. You see, I think that originality is more than simply being different for the sake of being different. True, simply different can bring welcome change to monotony, but I think there ought to be more motivation behind it than just that. A good story is good not simply because it's radically different from other stories. A different story could very well be a good story, but a story along similar lines as others can also be a good story. -----signature----- For those of you following along at home, don't forget your...subatomic house? You see that? I am a professional; the ceiling is now on fire, and I'm not worrried. Well, that does it for stupid snake...FACE. http://returnoftheghostbusters.com
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Jace Taran Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 1/6/08 9:18pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	DVCPRO-HDeditor posted: How is the destruction of the Sith by Luke any different than the destruction of the Jedi by Anakin? How did Luke exterminate the Sith? As I recall, Luke tossed his saber into the pit and refused to fight. Vader dropped Palpy down the shaft. Vader was still technically a Sith at that point, so the Sith destroyed themselves. -----signature----- For those of you following along at home, don't forget your...subatomic house? You see that? I am a professional; the ceiling is now on fire, and I'm not worrried. Well, that does it for stupid snake...FACE. http://returnoftheghostbusters.com
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DVCPRO-HDeditor Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 1/6/08 9:28pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	Jace Taran posted: How did Luke exterminate the Sith? Luke essentially created an inverse form of Dun Moch, leading Vader back to the light by infusing love through spoken words. Luke was successful and, yes, Anakin ultimately redeemed himself. But it was a result of Luke's actions (including words). -----signature----- "Murder is not a bannable offense here on TFN." ~ AdamBertocci Let Me Google That For You: http://tinyurl.com/5p4arw
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backdeskproductions Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 1/6/08 10:03pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	This is GOOD!!! I'm glad this topic launched such a discussion. We seem to be debating on a storyline now we just need to clear things up a bit. We have more possibilities in the Jedi/Sith War era. Let's try to focus on that. Oh, and sorry for "yelling the topic title". About the volunteer actors, people do it all the time. And I'm not saying this is going to be easy. Joe Wilka I'm sure used volunteer actors in The Movie Spoof Trilogy. Return of the Spoof recieved HIGH praise from the fan community. I'm sure he pretty much just went up to his potential actors and said, "Do you wanna be in a movie?" To answer the question about why this should be done is that since it's never been done before, and there is potential, it's about time we did it. Let's just say that we'll do this film for George Lucas' birthday. I'm not too worried about green screen that much unless we have ships. That's up to you writers. I think it's time we appointed a Master Writer to bring together the ideas and try to put them in an outline. For example, I had a series of bad dreams over a few months. I took out my pen and my paper and jotted down a quick summary of each of them. I rearranged the summaries into an outline, seeing how all of the dreams would fit into each other. Eventually, I finished typing the screenplay and it has been sitting in my car's trunk for a year now. What I'm saying, is that the Master Writer will take the ideas down, arrange them into a story line and submit the story to me. I'll play Master Producer until it's time to appoint another. (That's when Production takes place) As for CG artists... CG is what they DO. I'm sure they can put together some sort of mechanical units like walkers, or build some fighters. Maybe even they'll create a million-character Sith Army for example. We can find someone who has the program they used in LOTR. These people are out there... we just need to find them. This will be a REAL TEST to everyone's filmmaking abilities. Think of the relief after it's all over. You would have contributed to the greated Fan Film ever made. It's possible and probable. We just have to have the initiative to go out and DO it. -----signature----- I now have surround sound capabilities! I just need a project to exploit my newly discovered powers. Tee hee -Jon C. Maxwell
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backdeskproductions Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 1/6/08 10:08pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	(2) Your copyright/legality questions have already been answered in the "Read this before posting a new thread. Not kidding." thread. Ah, I see. I'm not sure if anyone reads those. -----signature----- I now have surround sound capabilities! I just need a project to exploit my newly discovered powers. Tee hee -Jon C. Maxwell
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backdeskproductions Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 1/6/08 10:22pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	JT posted: If the fan filmmaker wants to be original, then a Jedi should only there if they have a good reason to be, and not just because "we have to have some saber action somewhere in the movie." So I agree with you on that; I just don't agree that it would be impossible to utilize Jedi, Sith, the Force(or even lightsabers), in original ways. Okay, fair enough. But my point, really, is more about the unexplored potential BEYOND Jedi/Sith/Force/saber material, even more so than the "J/S/F/s have all been way over-used; do something different, dammit" point. That, and diversity; sure, make something about a Jedi if you must, but remember to include elements from the REST of Star Wars, if you please, and not just as backdrop. Make it important, integral to the story. And...if you can...try to set something during the Rebellion; seems like every fan film is set either before it or after it, like the Galactic Civil War has to be avoided at all costs, probably because of lack of potential for Jedi action...[/quote] "probably because of the lack of potential for Jedi action" -In the Jedi/Sith War Era, we could see Jedi action we may have never seen before at all. After all, it was near or in the Golden Age. Maybe there is a super weapon. Maybe there were force powers we've never heard of or seen done in the ways they might have done them. Maybe we'll see Coruscant the way it would have been thousands of years ago. Maybe Tatooine had lakes? BRAIN STORM;;; -----signature----- I now have surround sound capabilities! I just need a project to exploit my newly discovered powers. Tee hee -Jon C. Maxwell
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Jace Taran Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 1/6/08 10:26pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	backdeskproductions posted: This is GOOD!!! I'm glad this topic launched such a discussion. We seem to be debating on a storyline now we just need to clear things up a bit. We have more possibilities in the Jedi/Sith War era. Let's try to focus on that. I don't think we should focus on this era(and I'm sure RocketGirl will be opposed to the idea), at least not before considering alternatives first. Also, good Star Wars stories don't generally focus on just one aspect, so a story that is nothing but a Jedi/Sith struggle probably isn't the best way to go. It needs some diversity. Besides, we could do a story that has Jedi, Sith, and/or the Force in it without covering the Jedi/Sith war era, because that era has very, very few possibilities left. Somehow I imagine that anyone's attempt to cover that area is almost certain to hit pretty much every Jedi/Sith cliche in the book. I'd really rather not see another story about the war between the Jedi and the Sith, or some ancient artifact, or some Jedi tempted by the dark side. Basically, I'd really rather not see another Jedi/Sith battle to save the galaxy story. If we focus on the Jedi/Sith war era, I think it's going to be dificult to find a storyline that doesn't fall under one or more of these categories. You'll have to excuse the cliche phrase, but every fanfilm maker and his dog has done a film about that era. Instead, I think we need to take a step back and consider all the possibilties, and come up with something more diverse. I might not even mind so much if it's some kind of epic, as long as it's not just another "fate of the entire galaxy" type of thing. Seriously, the galaxy can't always be that close to ending. I'm not saying we toss Jedi/Sith out without a second thought; I'm saying we really take the time to tell a good story, not just attempt to create an exciting epic action film. So, we start tossing around ideas (some have already been mentioned). Then, we could take one, or some combination of them, and create a more detailed story. Ideally, it should have some subplots to it, rather than just focusing on one thing (meaning, we shouldn't limit ourselves to a Jedi story, but we also shouldn't limit ourselves to just a story about a bounty hunter either). Ideas should be critically thought-out. The idea should be to tell a story, not to tell an effect. -----signature----- For those of you following along at home, don't forget your...subatomic house? You see that? I am a professional; the ceiling is now on fire, and I'm not worrried. Well, that does it for stupid snake...FACE. http://returnoftheghostbusters.com
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backdeskproductions Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 1/6/08 10:36pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	Pitch: A bounty hunter is getting paid big bucks to hunt down a leader of a Sith battalion on some world. While hunting for this character, he joins forces with the Jedi and together, they lock into an epic battle with the Sith. we can take it from there if we want. -----signature----- I now have surround sound capabilities! I just need a project to exploit my newly discovered powers. Tee hee -Jon C. Maxwell
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Jace Taran Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 1/6/08 10:39pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	backdeskproductions posted: [quote] "probably because of the lack of potential for Jedi action" -In the Jedi/Sith War Era, we could see Jedi action we may have never seen before at all. After all, it was near or in the Golden Age. Maybe there is a super weapon. Maybe there were force powers we've never heard of or seen done in the ways they might have done them. Maybe we'll see Coruscant the way it would have been thousands of years ago. Maybe Tatooine had lakes? BRAIN STORM;;; You see, that's the thing: We don't just want to try to come up with new action. That shouldn't be the point. the point should be telling a good story. Action shouldn't be ruled out, but it shouldn't be the focus. Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by "action we've never seen;" if you mean crazy new force powers and lightsaber moves, that stuff does not add to a story. And I am definately against a superweapon; that's probably one of the most cliched stories there is, in any sci-fi. As I said, "destruction of the entire galaxy" stories have extremely little potential left for any degree of originallity. Also, we need to make changes that are important to a story, not just arbitrary changes. Tatooine having lakes would not (by itself) be a story change. Instead, it would be a pointless superficial change. It's like with Jedi; if you do a re-hashed Jedi vs Sith story, and you simply make it so that the Jedi is a Rodian and the Sith is a wookie, that does not constitute originality (I'm paraphrasing RocketGirl here; she said something similar a few weeks ago). Now, interesting stories could be perhaps be formed from such changes, but not if it's nothing more than a cosmetic change. Simply adding new force powers or new space ship designs is not enough; we need an original story, one that doesn't follow a pre-set formula. -----signature----- For those of you following along at home, don't forget your...subatomic house? You see that? I am a professional; the ceiling is now on fire, and I'm not worrried. Well, that does it for stupid snake...FACE. http://returnoftheghostbusters.com
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backdeskproductions Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 1/6/08 10:45pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea
	Jace Taran posted: backdeskproductions posted: [quote] "probably because of the lack of potential for Jedi action" -In the Jedi/Sith War Era, we could see Jedi action we may have never seen before at all. After all, it was near or in the Golden Age. Maybe there is a super weapon. Maybe there were force powers we've never heard of or seen done in the ways they might have done them. Maybe we'll see Coruscant the way it would have been thousands of years ago. Maybe Tatooine had lakes? BRAIN STORM;;; You see, that's the thing: We don't just want to try to come up with new action. That shouldn't be the point. the point should be telling a good story. Action shouldn't be ruled out, but it shouldn't be the focus. Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by "action we've never seen;" if you mean crazy new force powers and lightsaber moves, that stuff does not add to a story. And I am definately against a superweapon; that's probably one of the most cliched stories there is, in any sci-fi. As I said, "destruction of the entire galaxy" stories have extremely little potential left for any degree of originallity. Also, we need to make changes that are important to a story, not just arbitrary changes. Tatooine having lakes would not (by itself) be a story change. Instead, it would be a pointless superficial change. It's like with Jedi; if you do a re-hashed Jedi vs Sith story, and you simply make it so that the Jedi is a Rodian and the Sith is a wookie, that does not constitute originality (I'm paraphrasing RocketGirl here; she said something similar a few weeks ago). Now, interesting stories could be perhaps be formed from such changes, but not if it's nothing more than a cosmetic change. Simply adding new force powers or new space ship designs is not enough; we need an original story, one that doesn't follow a pre-set formula. Hence forth you shall be known as... Master Writer. all in favor say "ay" Of course we need an original story... I was just throwing details out there to try to stimulate the minds. -----signature----- I now have surround sound capabilities! I just need a project to exploit my newly discovered powers. Tee hee -Jon C. Maxwell
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Jace Taran Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 1/6/08 10:58pm Subject: RE: Jedi vs Sith prequel movie idea - Date Edited: 1/6/08 11:01pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Jace Taran
	backdeskproductions posted: Of course we need an original story... I was just throwing details out there to try to stimulate the minds. Fair enough; I'll try to think of stuff (however, I'm not sure I agree to being the actual screenwriter). -----signature----- For those of you following along at home, don't forget your...subatomic house? You see that? I am a professional; the ceiling is now on fire, and I'm not worrried. Well, that does it for stupid snake...FACE. http://returnoftheghostbusters.com
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