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Topic:
Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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sithslayingknight
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
2/12 9:00pm
Subject:
Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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How can make tip and hilt curves for lightsabers. In RvD and RvD2 the lightsaber has tip curves but in Ryan Wiebers tutorial he doesnt tell you how to make the curve. On Ryan Wiebers website it says after rotoscoping you have to go through every single frame to make the tip curve. Plus how can you make the burn marks like in RvD2 with the wall.
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Vidina
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
2/12 10:06pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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The everything topic didn't catch your eye?
www.aurellia.net -> lightsaber video tutorial's up, burnmarks coming very soon.
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Kaat
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
2/13 7:14am
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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Also, I made a full video tutorial on how to do burnmarks:
Part I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DczknIxi_Xo
Part II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jukHmj2X-VM
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Check out my VFX-blog where you can find my fx tests and my video tutorials as well: You'll find my tutorial for lightsaber wall cuts there, too. . http://petergerri.blogspot.com/
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sithslayingknight
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
2/13 10:19pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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Thanks Kaat
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"Size Matters Not" - Yoda
"Do or Do Not, there is no try" - Yoda
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gallion311
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
2/14 7:45am
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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If you're inquiring specifically about Ryan W's method from RVD2, I can be of some assistance. Ryan gave a mini breakdown in the RVD2 thread, plus there's a couple similar threads that describe the process.
Here's my mini breakdown,
Insert a half-blade into your saber so it looks like the other half is in the wall. Simulate the cut and just scrape against your wall.
Bring that footage into AE.
If it's a moving camera shot (like RVD2) you'll need some matchmoving software to create a digital camera tha moves identical to your actual camera. (Icarus, Boujou, PFTrack).
Then setup a 3D plane in AE that matches up with the wall in your footage.
Next duplicate that 3D wall layer and add a mask. But instead of a closed mask shape(like lightsabers) you'll just be creating a path that follows the tip of your saber along the wall, this is done by following that tip frame by frame.
Then use the Stroke plugin in AE to create a solid line from that animated mask path.
The next several steps are all about making that path look like a real burn. Darken the color, add some noise to the edges to make it look uneven (Ryan used the turbulent displace plugin, I used the Roughen Edges).
Then duplicate that layer (and put in under the hole layer) and increase the size of the stroke, so its extends beyond the hole layer from above. This layer will represent the torn or melted edges of the burn. Use the Bevel Edges plugin to give these edges a nice 3d look to them.
I know thats a real quick and dirty "tutorial" but there's alot going on in the effect and it's tough to write out. This should at least give yo a good idea of how it's accomplished...take those basic steps and play around with it.
Here's a couple resources for you:
Here's the sparks I used for my attempt below (they're for Trapcode Particular):
AE7 Project: http://www.ryangallion.com/uploads/Sparks-Project.aep
Particular .ffx: http://www.ryangallion.com/uploads/gallion311_Sparks.ffx
Here's my attempt:
http://www.ryangallion.com/SaberBurn-New.wmv
Here's Ryan W's mini breakdown:
Wall damage was all 2D-generated, relying on AE's 3D space matchmoved to the wall. We used half-length saber blades for shots where the wall is being penetrated. Once you have a matchmoved plane on the surface, you can go frame by frame and draw a mask on the layer where you think it should be cutting. Perspective will be respected in that you are looking through the 3D camera at the plane on-angle and when you copy and paste your mask work onto a solid of the same dimensions (or pre-comp your plane) you get a flat view with damage, which is the place to work on it.
I used these mask paths to generate the basis for the damage look. Used Stroke to generate a line from the mask path, and turbulent displace filters to dirty up the shape. This is basically the actual cut. A duplicate of that with varied turbulence and the stroke width set to a larger number can be used for the melted metal portion, when you then alpha-subtract the thinner line so you get a wiggly outline. Then it's a matter of getting it to look like metal. That's where it starts to get artistic and it comes down to getting to just pass for something kind of realistic. I was throwing a lot of fractal noice, bevel alpha (with lighting direction approximating each shot's lighting conditions), and drop shadow at the shape, and on top of all that, more fractal darkening scorches and a few hand-placed burn marks.
Just about the only thing I actually used a particle system for in RvD2 was the glowing trail on the metal. And that's not really because I felt it was necessary, but it was the quickest and easiest way I could think of to achieve the right sort of glow falloff I wanted. Used one of my favorite plug-ins, Particular. Using particles did also afforded the nice advantage of introducing some subtle variance in the glow intensity. It's a 2D layer where I basically just traced the revealing cuts with the emitter and finessed the particle life and opacity over life, and then used that in conjunction with the metal outline matte to make a glow matte, which was then used to do basic glowy things the typical ways you might expect.
You can do all this work in your wall damage pre-comp knowing that it will carry right over into your real comp and have proper perspective. In my case, however, especially at HD resolutions (and 16-bit color as much as possible) this was rather intensive for my machine and a lot of pre-renders and passes had to be built in order to facilitate the heavy nature of this effect.
More details and video and fun stuff on our DVD.
*Also, buy the RVD2 making of DVD for a great in depth look at that shot (and all the others in RVD2 as well)
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Michael always says "K-I-S-S. Keep it simple, stupid." Great advice. Hurts my feelings every time. - Dwight Schrute http://www.ryangallion.com http://retaliation.ryangallion.com <-- My latest X-Wing Dogfight Short. ::1st Place in the n00b film competitio
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Boter
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
2/15 1:54pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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As far as rounding the edges, if you're not going to do it by hand with either splines (much harder to control and, IMO, not worth it) or a six-point method (the same), apply a Median filter of about one or two, depending on the shot, to your lightsaber layer.
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DorkmanScott
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
2/15 3:32pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
- Date Edited:
2/15 3:34pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DorkmanScott
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Boter posted:
As far as rounding the edges, if you're not going to do it by hand with either splines (much harder to control and, IMO, not worth it) or a six-point method (the same), apply a Median filter of about one or two, depending on the shot, to your lightsaber layer.
A six-point curve is the BEST option for control, median the WORST.
Ryan used to do Median. Much of the re-rotoscoping I did in re-mastering RvD was correcting errors that this introduced, such as edges rounding where they should be occluded, and rounding errors revealing the prop beneath.
I always do a six-point mask, hand-rounded and rarely working at any less than a 400% zoom for sub-pixel accuracy. But then I care about lightsabers looking good to an unhealthy degree.
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 Obama/Biden 2008 Let's bring back America. http://www.ryanvsdorkman.com Check out my blog: http://dorkmanscott.blogspot.com
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NateCaauwe
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
2/15 3:36pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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^^ Agreed. If controlling a rounded saber is difficult for you, then don't ever attempt any real rotoscoping 
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http://NateCow.com http://PixelCorps.com http://twitter.com/NateCow "Never ask a man what kind of computer he uses. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him?" -Tom Clancy
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Wookieefett
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
2/16 11:43pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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DorkmanScott posted:
Boter posted:
As far as rounding the edges, if you're not going to do it by hand with either splines (much harder to control and, IMO, not worth it) or a six-point method (the same), apply a Median filter of about one or two, depending on the shot, to your lightsaber layer.
A six-point curve is the BEST option for control, median the WORST.
Ryan used to do Median. Much of the re-rotoscoping I did in re-mastering RvD was correcting errors that this introduced, such as edges rounding where they should be occluded, and rounding errors revealing the prop beneath.
I always do a six-point mask, hand-rounded and rarely working at any less than a 400% zoom for sub-pixel accuracy. But then I care about lightsabers looking good to an unhealthy degree.
Do you add in an extra 2 points AFTER rotoscoping to 4 main corners of the prop, or just do the curve as you go?
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BruceM
Registered:
Mar '06
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Date Posted:
2/17 11:37am
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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Wookieefett posted:
Do you add in an extra 2 points AFTER rotoscoping to 4 main corners of the prop, or just do the curve as you go?
I know at least when I roto, I also use six points, the four main, and two points are beizer curves, one at the hilt and one at the end. I add the curve as I roto, seems like it would take too much time to go back over every frame just for a tip.
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madhorizons
Registered:
May '06
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Date Posted:
2/17 7:49pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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I pretty much do the same as Wookieefett, BruceM, etc....
I start with 6 points. What I do, is click the pen to draw the mask, ensuring that rotobezier is checked. I draw all 6 points with this. I then convert ONLY the four corners, which will make the sides go straight between those four corners. The "5 & 6" points, which are at each end, are still rotobezier mask points and generates a curve between them and the 1,2,3,4 points of the sides.
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Breaking guitar strings since 1986
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Boter
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
2/18 11:15am
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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That's fair. And if you prefer sabers with an Ep III style tip, it's definitely easier with six points.
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madhorizons
Registered:
May '06
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Date Posted:
2/18 1:54pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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Boter posted:
That's fair. And if you prefer sabers with an Ep III style tip, it's definitely easier with six points.
I don't make it pointy, just extend enough of the end points to have a curve there like if you used the paint brush tool...basically, just not flat across the tip
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Boter
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
2/18 2:52pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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Right, I know that that's what everybody means by "rounding". It's just that the six-point method also works for tipped sabers as well as rounded.
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Organizer, TF.N Filmmaking Workshop III Member, Key Pixel Gathering of Filmers (partial filmography in profile) s for Alana, s for Grampa Tony. I Knew a Jedi. What *IS* Meatball?
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VaporTrail
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
2/18 4:09pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
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I start w/ 6 frames and go through, but honestly I think it'd be quicker to do it the other way. Much of my time is spent/wasted moving the bezier curve points into the right spot.
If you add it after the main 4 points are set in every frame, then you add it right in the middle, it should be right in the middle of the proper points assuming they're all in the same relative position on the blade. Then you go and tweak those frame-by-frame.
It initially seems slower cuz you're going through your footage twice, but doing that and running through the frames w/ Page-Up/Page-Down, it'd prolly go pretty fast.
-Vaportrail
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SilentBat
Registered:
Aug '06
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Date Posted:
2/18 4:49pm
Subject:
RE: Lightsaber tip curves and lgihtsaber burn marks like in RVD2
- Date Edited:
2/18 4:51pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
SilentBat
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BruceM posted:
Wookieefett posted:
Do you add in an extra 2 points AFTER rotoscoping to 4 main corners of the prop, or just do the curve as you go?
I know at least when I roto, I also use six points, the four main, and two points are beizer curves, one at the hilt and one at the end. I add the curve as I roto, seems like it would take too much time to go back over every frame just for a tip.
I roto the four tips then go back because if I mess up with general rotoscoping I can go back and just fix the four points easily instead of having to move six points. I don't round off the saber until I'm happy with the roto with the four points.
VaporTrail posted:
I start w/ 6 frames and go through, but honestly I think it'd be quicker to do it the other way. Much of my time is spent/wasted moving the bezier curve points into the right spot.
If you add it after the main 4 points are set in every frame, then you add it right in the middle, it should be right in the middle of the proper points assuming they're all in the same relative position on the blade. Then you go and tweak those frame-by-frame.
It initially seems slower cuz you're going through your footage twice, but doing that and running through the frames w/ Page-Up/Page-Down, it'd prolly go pretty fast.
-Vaportrail
Definitely! I'm surprise at how similar we roto our lightsabers Vapes. This isn't the only time there has been similarities in our methods.
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