Author Topic: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
jedimasterbac  6234 posts
Title: CT and Fan Design Manager
Registered: Jun '04
24180_Obi-Wan Art
Date Posted: 6/28 1:25pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...) - Date Edited: 6/28 1:25pm (1 edits total) Edited By: jedimasterbac
To the noble citizens of the Fan Sites board,

Like that? Noble citizens? tongue Anyway...

I wanted to let you all in on the fact that the future of this board is currently under intense discussion, a discussion that I started in order to deal with the fact that this board just isn’t working. Along with other members that are currently active in this board, I have tried to prop this board up. Past mods, such as DVEditor, also tried to do so. I used to say that DV wasn’t doing enough, but that was until I became the Fan Sites mod. I don’t think it’s really fixable due to a lack of community interest.

THAT SAID (and I put this in screaming caps because it’s important), no decision has been made. If a decision had been made, the title of this thread would have reflected the decision. While we are talking about potential mergers or just shutting this board down completely and perhaps salvaging the important information, we want to make sure that you, the Fan Sites board participants, have your voices heard in this. We’re looking for you and what may be your great ideas for the future of this board. If you have them, say them, whatever they may be! That’s what this thread is for.

Again, just to recap, no decision has been made. No decision is close to being made, really, because we want your input as well. Speak away!

 

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JEDIGUNSHIP  16669 posts
Title: C&G Game Host
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Registered: May '08
49034_Gunships (80409)
Date Posted: 6/29 9:54am Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
I am against the closure of this board primarily because I find that it is worth something to those out there who like to create Fan Sites. If there isn't a place for them to post those kinds of things and try to share them with the rest of the community, less people will be wanting to do such a thing.

 

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jedimasterbac  6234 posts
Title: CT and Fan Design Manager
Registered: Jun '04
24180_Obi-Wan Art
Date Posted: 6/29 10:06am Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
JEDIGUNSHIP posted:
I am against the closure of this board primarily because I find that it is worth something to those out there who like to create Fan Sites. If there isn't a place for them to post those kinds of things and try to share them with the rest of the community, less people will be wanting to do such a thing.


Just to play devil's advocate, since I'm not going to take any sort of stance in this thread, wouldn't you say that the vast majority of people that have posted in this board for the last few years have posted their thread, said "join my site", and then left? There are, after all, very few people who are actually looking for legitimate feedback, because most just want to advertise.

 

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JEDIGUNSHIP  16669 posts
Title: C&G Game Host
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49034_Gunships (80409)
Date Posted: 6/29 10:07am Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
You have a point. However, I'd miss this board if it were closed.

 

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jedimasterbac  6234 posts
Title: CT and Fan Design Manager
Registered: Jun '04
24180_Obi-Wan Art
Date Posted: 6/29 10:20am Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
JEDIGUNSHIP posted:
You have a point. However, I'd miss this board if it were closed.


So would I, which is one of the reasons I avoided this discussion for so long. Still, if it's decided that the board would be closed (and, as I said, nothing is decided yet), I wouldn't want to oppose it based solely on nostalgia.

And also as I said, there are other ideas that have been thrown out there to preserve some element of this board elsewhere in the event that it closes, so it wouldn't be a total loss or anything.

 

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darth_nemisis  11925 posts
Registered: May '04
23731_Palpatine
Date Posted: 6/29 10:55am Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
I am going to have to say that I am against the shut down of this forum. I think the main problem is, the JC is seeing a decrease in total activity, and as a result, the lesser boards, such as Fan Sites, are losing interest.

What ever happened to the competition that was discussed?

 

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jedimasterbac  6234 posts
Title: CT and Fan Design Manager
Registered: Jun '04
24180_Obi-Wan Art
Date Posted: 6/29 12:03pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
There was a complete lack of interest in the competition, and two or three people that are just in this board would not have sustained it nor would it have solved any problems. A competition like that was meant to bring people in, but there was just no interest to it whatsoever.

And as far as the decrease in JC activity, one thing you have notice when talking about that is that Fan Sites, in terms of active user participation, hasn't changed. Historically, at least as far as I've been involved with this board, the Fan Sites board has only had around five or six active participants. That's more or less what we have now, although some are on and off again participants. We have me, you, JEDIGUNSHIP, Trika_Kenobi, Kev-Mas_Colcha, and NarCranor. That's who I can think of. It's a nice group and all, but (in playing devil's advocate) it's not enough to support an entire board.

Also in regards to the decrease in JC activity, you're right that it does have an effect. You can tell right off the bat that Fan Sites has taken a hit because of it. There is one thing that has sustained this board for years on end: people advertising their websites. It's been about people coming here saying "hai i just create site come join u can be adman kk?" I don't mean that derogatorily as if to suggest that it's how people advertise, but it's the general impression that's given off when people do advertise. People don't come looking for feedback, they come to drop a link hoping they get members. It's like this on virtually all sites that have boards like this.

Now, we don’t even have that anymore. Three, yes three, new threads have been posted in the last month. At one point we could at least count on a lot of people putting up threads. Now that’s gone too. It’s unfortunate, but it’s true. If we don’t even have what’s kept this board alive for years on end, we can’t expect it to grow to what it could be, aka. a legitimate feedback and discussion forum.

If push comes to shove, we can’t say “well it’s a total JC activity decline” as a justification for keeping it open. That just comes down to us wishing it didn’t have to be shut down, and it’s just us feeling nostalgic. It’s like in a business; if a department isn’t pulling its own weight, even in a time where the entire company may be taking a hit, you don’t keep it because you have nice feelings about it. Sometimes the tough decisions need to be made.

Again, I’m not advocating the closing of the board, nor am I advocating that the board be kept. These are just the facts as I see them, and the facts as I think most of the JC sees them as well.

 

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JEDIGUNSHIP  16669 posts
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Registered: May '08
49034_Gunships (80409)
Date Posted: 6/29 12:07pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
What was the competition about, again?

 

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jedimasterbac  6234 posts
Title: CT and Fan Design Manager
Registered: Jun '04
24180_Obi-Wan Art
Date Posted: 6/29 12:25pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
JEDIGUNSHIP posted:
What was the competition about, again?


Design. General stuff like that.

 

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darth_nemisis  11925 posts
Registered: May '04
23731_Palpatine
Date Posted: 6/29 1:09pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
There was a complete lack of interest in the competition, and two or three people that are just in this board would not have sustained it nor would it have solved any problems. A competition like that was meant to bring people in, but there was just no interest to it whatsoever.

Was this lack of interest just in the Mod Squad? Because I don't ever remember seeing it mentioned except in PMs.

People don't come looking for feedback, they come to drop a link hoping they get members.

Yeah, you're right there. Most of the threads here have very little replies because of that fact.

we can’t say “well it’s a total JC activity decline” as a justification for keeping it open.

I wasn't saying the JC's lack of activity is the sole reason this board is suffering. I was merely stating it is probably a factor. Now, you're correct in saying that there has always been a few dedicated members. But, I think as the years have gone by, the number of those dedicated members have shrunk (and by that, from maybe 10 to 5, so not much tongue )

I would like to be optimistic and say that, if we bring in some new ideas, then maybe this place could survive. I had a lot of ideas stored in one of my offsites that I gave to DV when he was mod and I think a couple to you. If I could find those, would you want me to bring them up? (But, like I said, it is probably just an optimistic point of view; it probably will not solve the problem)

 

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jedimasterbac  6234 posts
Title: CT and Fan Design Manager
Registered: Jun '04
24180_Obi-Wan Art
Date Posted: 6/29 1:15pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
darth_nemisis posted:
Was this lack of interest just in the Mod Squad? Because I don't ever remember seeing it mentioned except in PMs.


The idea of it was shopped around a bit in private to other people. There just wasn't really any interest in designing, even just a competition for TF.N banner designing.

darth_nemisis posted:
I would like to be optimistic and say that, if we bring in some new ideas, then maybe this place could survive. I had a lot of ideas stored in one of my offsites that I gave to DV when he was mod and I think a couple to you. If I could find those, would you want me to bring them up? (But, like I said, it is probably just an optimistic point of view; it probably will not solve the problem)


Yes. This is an open suggestions thread. If you have them, by all means post them.

 

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Kev-Mas_Colcha  6005 posts
Registered: Dec '02
47735_Shadow Guard
Date Posted: 6/29 2:55pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
Maybe a merger isn't such a bad idea. Perhaps we could merge with Fan Art? Because Web Design IS an Art form, but then again, so is Costuming and Props and Fan Films as well. However, I feel that there hasn't been enough done to facilitate more posting. I think the best way to do this would/would have been to reach out to those who don't know how to make their own site, which is most likely the main problem, by offering tutorials and information, and then advertising them in some way.

 

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JEDIGUNSHIP  16669 posts
Title: C&G Game Host
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Registered: May '08
49034_Gunships (80409)
Date Posted: 6/29 3:08pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...) - Date Edited: 6/29 4:18pm (1 edits total) Edited By: JEDIGUNSHIP
I see potential there; instead of being a "see my site; here's the link" forum, Fan Sites could encompass all aspects of web design. It could be renamed "Fan Design" or something along those lines.

 

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Trika_Kenobi  9463 posts
Registered: Nov '99
46133_Talon Squad
Date Posted: 6/29 4:13pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
I debated posting last night and couldn't find the "give a crap" within me to post.

I'm still not sure I've got enough this afternoon to be tactful.

I cared for a while because I saw potential in here. Sure, the board is slow. So, WTH do we do when the board is slow? We come up with ideas. And oh, did we ever. That contest? "Lack of interest" is a swell disguise, in my opinion. We morphed the heck out of that thing until we came up with something that would work, and then it got lost in MS, according to your last comment to me. And that's after I pulled the information out of you. Who were the private parties that added to the "lack of interest" pool? How many people did you ask? I'm curious because I never knew about this apparent private messaging war you waged behind the scenes. Why didn't you keep the regulars informed of this? Why didn't you ask for help? I sure as hell would have done my part to drum up interest, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

The quick responses you're receiving in this thread show loyalty, and the dedication that I and others have shown for months about discussing and even creating the contest shows that it's always been here.

On that note, I won't sugarcoat my feelings and say I really care anymore. Had I more time, I'd dedicate a considerable amount of effort to going to find the activity.

You know, work for it.

There are old regulars who still post here at the JC. Ever think of inviting them into the board and getting to know them? Hell, anyone ever think of actually visiting these one-time posters' websites and e-mailing them to return for a debate about some topic? I got to know NarCranor late last year. Why? I actually went to the site, got to snooping around, and started chatting with him on Yahoo!. He doesn't post too often, but a simple IM to him or any number of other posters, one-time or not, could generate more discussion. "Hey, come tell us how you designed such-and-such."

How about interviewing any number of designers and artists around the JC? "How do you create those awesome banners?"

Anyone ever take a look at Fan Films? Most of those JCers go through a lot of trouble to put their work on websites, but their real passion is not designing for the web, and sometimes it's rather obvious. Adopt a site a quarter and have users input design changes and additions, and maybe have a contest designed around bettering those sites.

Keep up with the times. Facebook and MySpace are huge. Widgets, desktop apps, and cellular phone apps are getting big. Implement backgrounds, templates, and apps for stuff that people actually use. Search for Star Wars fans and find good pages. Invite them to talk design. Or just give a crap and talk design with them without wanting anything in return.

Call me an idealist, but I don't buy the whole "people aren't interested" bit. I will buy the fact that it's hard and it takes work, and seriously, I don't see that anyone's willing to put in the work necessary. I just came up with these ideas in the last ten minutes, so I know it's not for lack of avenues of opportunity that the board suffers.

Sitting around and waiting for business hasn't worked, obviously, and the trend of a lack of new websites and a lack of new website discussion isn't changing. That being said, close it down, merge it, or actually give a crap, meaning get to know who else gives a crap and take some initiative in working to bring the business. "Propping" the board wasn't going to work to start with, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people could have guessed that, too. Work hard and this could still work. Work hard and it won't get lost and die in the merger.

Otherwise, just forget it.

 

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jedimasterbac  6234 posts
Title: CT and Fan Design Manager
Registered: Jun '04
24180_Obi-Wan Art
Date Posted: 6/29 4:59pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...) - Date Edited: 6/29 5:00pm (1 edits total) Edited By: jedimasterbac
I’ve given a crap for four years. There was a time when I was the only one who did give a crap. Because of that, I don’t really appreciate the insinuation. You can say “care more” as much as you want, but there’s only so much five or six people can care. Since that was part of your post, let me respond to individual parts:

Trika_Kenobi posted:
I cared for a while because I saw potential in here. Sure, the board is slow. So, WTH do we do when the board is slow? We come up with ideas. And oh, did we ever. That contest? "Lack of interest" is a swell disguise, in my opinion. We morphed the heck out of that thing until we came up with something that would work, and then it got lost in MS, according to your last comment to me. And that's after I pulled the information out of you. Who were the private parties that added to the "lack of interest" pool? How many people did you ask? I'm curious because I never knew about this apparent private messaging war you waged behind the scenes. Why didn't you keep the regulars informed of this? Why didn't you ask for help? I sure as hell would have done my part to drum up interest, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.


You’re right. A lot of work was put into that proposal. Anytime you had to “pull the information out of me” was because the discussion was still ongoing and information wasn’t changing. Would you have preferred daily or weekly PMs saying “don’t worry, we’re still talking about it” until we got to the point where I could actually tell you something. It’s not exactly a newsflash when I say that a lot of discussions take time.

As for the private parties that added to the lack of interest pool, I think you know full well that I can’t start going around talking about private messages. Call me a liar if you want. I can live with that.

About why I didn’t keep the regular users informed of it, would it have mattered? They can’t exactly start mass messaging people or else people might start complaining of spam. Again, call it an excuse if you want. Fine by me. As for why I wouldn’t keep the regular users informed of the game, the five of you that are here, one of you being the host, would have participated in it anyway. Seems rather redundant to preach to the choir if you ask me.

Trika_Kenobi posted:
There are old regulars who still post here at the JC. Ever think of inviting them into the board and getting to know them? Hell, anyone ever think of actually visiting these one-time posters' websites and e-mailing them to return for a debate about some topic? I got to know NarCranor late last year. Why? I actually went to the site, got to snooping around, and started chatting with him on Yahoo!. He doesn't post too often, but a simple IM to him or any number of other posters, one-time or not, could generate more discussion. "Hey, come tell us how you designed such-and-such."


In regards to visiting one-time poster’s websites or e-mailing them, I can only speak for myself when I say I am vehemently opposed to unsolicited advertisement, even if it’s just one person. I despise when people do it to me, so I won’t do it to others. I also refuse to send people out to do it for me. That’s just the way I roll when it comes to advertising websites or parts of websites. You may disagree, but okay. We can agree to disagree on that.

But that’s just my opinion. I didn’t exactly put it into practice that way. Even before I was a moderator, I did go to websites to try to drum up support. Did I go to all former posters websites or all one-time posters websites? No, that’s impossible. I’m only one person, and my opposition to sending people out to do that sort of thing for me still stood. I tried to get to know the websites and members a little bit because I didn’t want to just post a link and bail, but when I did there was simply no interest.

People are looking out for their websites. They don’t particularly care about other people’s. The few of us who actually participate here are a minority. That’s been my experience for years.

Trika_Kenobi posted:
Anyone ever take a look at Fan Films? Most of those JCers go through a lot of trouble to put their work on websites, but their real passion is not designing for the web, and sometimes it's rather obvious. Adopt a site a quarter and have users input design changes and additions, and maybe have a contest designed around bettering those sites.


An interesting idea, but consider the mind frame of people. Unless we said that their site would only be adopted if they became a contributor to this board, they would hardly contribute to this board. That’s just people’s frame of mind. Also, you can’t do that without other mods signing onto it, and other mods can sometimes be hard to convince if they have no interest. wink

Trika_Kenobi posted:
Call me an idealist, but I don't buy the whole "people aren't interested" bit. I will buy the fact that it's hard and it takes work, and seriously, I don't see that anyone's willing to put in the work necessary. I just came up with these ideas in the last ten minutes, so I know it's not for lack of avenues of opportunity that the board suffers.


I used to be an idealist about this to, truth be told. Then I became the Fan Sites moderator and realized that people just don’t care. The few of us can care as much as we want, but the fact is that even if you don’t believe it there’s just not interest. If I have to go to Facebook and create Star Wars fan sites groups, or if I have to give up my dignity to actually create a MySpace, or if I have to figure out how to create an iPhone application (I’m saying “I” in representation to anyone, not just me) then, personally, that’s going way out of my way. They’re all great ideas, but once you get outside of TF.N you’re going to find even less interest. There are major web design talk chat rooms out there. You’re not going to drum up interest in a Star Wars board, even if it is TF.N.

Trika_Kenobi posted:
Sitting around and waiting for business hasn't worked, obviously, and the trend of a lack of new websites and a lack of new website discussion isn't changing. That being said, close it down, merge it, or actually give a crap, meaning get to know who else gives a crap and take some initiative in working to bring the business. "Propping" the board wasn't going to work to start with, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people could have guessed that, too. Work hard and this could still work. Work hard and it won't get lost and die in the merger.


I do know the people who give a crap. I listed them above. If you or anyone else had suggestions, this thread has been at the top of the board for seven months, and it was a replacement of a thread that had been there for years.

 

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Trika_Kenobi  9463 posts
Registered: Nov '99
46133_Talon Squad
Date Posted: 6/29 5:56pm Subject: Future of Fan Sites - Board Discussion (that means YOU and the guy with the face in the place...)
Just a few quick comments.

First, you sure have an answer for everything. Since you've deftly sliced through my post and answered everything with an approving or dissenting vote, I suppose that's that for suggestions.

Second, please don't go to the extreme of everything and act like I want you to post full PM discussions or spam the hell out of people's sites. I mean... really? I do have common sense.

Third, what good would talking to us mean? Oh, I don't know. Keep you in touch with the user base? I don't care what you talk to us about, either... it could have cleared some confusion that seems to at least be somewhat prevalent around here.

Fourth, thanks for giving a crap for four years. But since that didn't work, I'm really not sure any suggestions will ever work, then. Close 'er down.

 

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