| Author |
Topic:
Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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DarthSeti5
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
8/12/01 9:20pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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We seem too focused on the many sides and shades of the Force when we need to focus on the Force as a whole. By breaking it down into Light, Shadow, Dark, Cosmic, and Living, we take away from the whole.
To understand the Force, you must let go of your expectations, your fears, your hopes, your dreams, your nightmares, and look at the Force as one thing. You must forget light and dark and let the Force simply 'be.'
I find that some people come to learn of the Force to be a part of some grand thing that will be remembered for ages. But to truely be in the service of the Force, you must hold the needs of others at the same regard as your own. You must be prepared to die in pain and silence to save one person. No books about you, no movies, no parades, no memories, nothing. You must be prepared to lay down your life for anyone and then drift away like sand in the wind.
The Force can have many names and faces, but when it comes down to it, are they really important? What is a name? It's a shell for something far greater. When we start naming, classifing, coping, and separating we become dependant on shells. We have broken down the Force so much that we can't see it for what it is. It is a simple thing that transends time and space, mind and body. It gives insight and power in equal measure.
To bring this all together without long winded rhetoric is that we need to stop thinking of the Force in pieces. The Force 'is.' Dark, Light, Shadow, Cosmic, Living. . . they are how you use the Force and why, not what it is. If we take out terms like "Light Side" and "Dark Side" we get something much simpler:
If you use the Force for aggresion you probably will continue to use the Force for aggression and become dependant on aggression in you life. If you use the Force to help others and enlighten yourself you will probably continue to do so. What you do becomes habitual.
So I ask you a question. . . If it is the will of the Force to destroy, do you?
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What you feel only matters to you.
It's what you do to the people you say you love, that's what matters.
It's the only thing that counts.
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BOOSTERERRANT
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
8/13/01 7:55am
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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It is never the true will of the force to destroy. The will of the DARKSIDE is always to destroy and bring chaos. BUT, to trust your voice of reason...the LIGHTSIDE....shall bring another way...One that never advocates death and destruction.
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Jedi Master of the Galactic Defenders
Member of the Jedi Council
Wishing they'd make KOTOR into movies
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DarthSeti5
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
8/13/01 1:08pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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And if you must kill someone to save others, do you? If an evil person were to attack innocent beings and the only way to stop him were to kill him, would you? If it is the Will of the Force that the evil person be stopped, do you?
And what about the smallest of things? A fly. Would you swat it if it became bothersome? A wasp. Would you kill it to prevent you or others pain?
If it is the true will of the Force to preserve life, how can that be done without destroying life? If no one ever fought back the world would be ruled by powers of evil. How can we build a house without cutting down a tree?
And what of the insane? Their voice of reason may say to kill the innocent. They are following their voice of reason, but are they following the voice of the Force? No.
Light Side and Dark Side, they are only terms to describe how the Force is used, not what the Force is. The Force simply IS. It can't be broken down into Light and Dark, Cosmic and Living. We need to set aside these terms and think of the Force as a whole, let the Force be.
I will try to illustrate:
[The Force]--->Force User--->How the user uses the Force---> Effect(Light,Dark,etc)
Now we can fill in these blanks and see:
[The Force]--->DS5--->Absorbes a blaster bolt with the Force---> Saves innocent life(Light)
[The Force]--->Darth Vader--->Absorbes a blaster bolt with the Force---> Uses energy to kill many people surronding him(Dark)
So you see, it is not just how we use the Force that determines Light and Dark, but also why we use the Force.
Another example:
[The Force]--->DS5--->Probes the Force for understanding and enlightenment---> Gives DS5 a greater understanding of himself and the Force(Light)
[The Force]--->Darth Vader---.Probes the Force to find ways to use it more to his liking---> Allows Vader to use the Force in horrible ways, killing many(Dark)
Now, I must leave for a time. Good bye.
-----signature-----
What you feel only matters to you.
It's what you do to the people you say you love, that's what matters.
It's the only thing that counts.
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DarthAttorney
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
8/14/01 10:53pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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And what of a user who uses the Dark Side for the greater good? By your logic, DS5:
[The Force]--->DA--->Probes the Force to judge a persons response to certain stimulus---> Gives DA a greater understanding of the user and the Force(????)
My motive is selfish, true, but may serve to protect innocents and, therein, the greater good.
What say you?
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BOOSTERERRANT
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
8/15/01 7:41am
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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No matter what the result, the ends NEVER justify the means. All the good will be erased if you are lost to the DARKSIDE, for then you will do twice as many evil deeds as you did good.
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Jedi Master of the Galactic Defenders
Member of the Jedi Council
Wishing they'd make KOTOR into movies
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DarthSeti5
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
8/15/01 9:51am
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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No. You do not understand anything I have been trying to teach you. This isn't about Light and Dark it's about the Force, and letting it be. What determines Dark and Light is how and why you use the Force. My first examples we ones of why, the second of how. The core of the examples was to show that the Dark Side and Light Side don't reside in the Force but within our selves and our actions.
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What you feel only matters to you.
It's what you do to the people you say you love, that's what matters.
It's the only thing that counts.
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DarthAttorney
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
8/15/01 9:53pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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Booster, you make as little sense as your Master. Your vilification of the Dark Side shows your ignorance. 
I understand what DS5 is getting at now. If you look at the Force as not hopelessly factured into Light and Dark, then the use of the Force is subjective to every user.
Then would not every user be responsible for their own code of conduct, since every user will use the Force to their ends and to different extents?
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Soggy-Ben Doggy
Registered:
Dec '99
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Date Posted:
8/16/01 9:27am
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
- Date Edited:
8/16/01 9:36am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Soggy-Ben Doggy
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The Force is neither good nor evil -- it simply is. It is the one who wields it, who determines whether it's usage is good or bad. Therefore, each person is responsible for their own actions and choices.
If the Force was fractured and divided into Light and Dark, and once you've tasted the dark side, there's no return -- then Vader, could not have made the choice to redeem himself.
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BOOSTERERRANT
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
8/16/01 12:08pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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DA, this is a place of learning, which is why I am here....do not insult me and my will to learn. There is much I will learn, and making mistakes and being wrong is a way to learn as well. In other words....shut up. lol
DS5, I do agree with you to a certain extent. I refuse to beleive that the force just IS. Otherwise, the pure-of-heart would'nt be tempted to start down the dark path.
Explain if the force just is...then how can one be "tempted to the darkside."
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Jedi Master of the Galactic Defenders
Member of the Jedi Council
Wishing they'd make KOTOR into movies
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DarthSeti5
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
8/16/01 1:27pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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So because you're pure you can't be tempted? The only person I know of who was tempted by evil and didn't even think about going down that path was Jesus the Christ.
Just because the Dark Side isn't a direct part of the Force doesn't mean you cannot be tempted by it. The Dark Side is many things, greed, lust, power, anger, hate, rage, suffereing, etc. You can be tempted by greed and power. Is greed a "side" of the Force, no. Is love a "side" of the Force, no.
We are tempted by evil all the time. Just because you're pure one day doesn't mean you'll be pure the next.
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What you feel only matters to you.
It's what you do to the people you say you love, that's what matters.
It's the only thing that counts.
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BOOSTERERRANT
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
8/16/01 1:34pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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you misunderstand the question, but i appreciate the responce. is it the voice of the darkside of the force that speaks temptation, or is it the evil in ones self? are they one of the same?
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Jedi Master of the Galactic Defenders
Member of the Jedi Council
Wishing they'd make KOTOR into movies
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DarthSeti5
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
8/16/01 2:24pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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Well could you elaborate on your questions then? ?:|
On the Dark Side. I believe that temptation comes from certain aspects of evil being thrown in front of us. An extreme example would be someone offering you power and money if you killed someone.
It's not like the "Dark Side" is an entity. It's just all the things that are "bad" or "evil" in the universe. When you are "Tempted to the Dark Side" you are tempted to use the Force with evil intent by other things that are evil.
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What you feel only matters to you.
It's what you do to the people you say you love, that's what matters.
It's the only thing that counts.
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Soggy-Ben Doggy
Registered:
Dec '99
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Date Posted:
8/16/01 4:35pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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No one is above temptation, even the pure.
We all have our weaknesses and it's those weaknesses, which opens the door for temptations towards the dark side.
If a person's weakness is anger, then it will be harder for him to keep that anger at bay, as compared to someone whose weakness is greed. If he doesn't learn to control or conquer his weakness towards anger, then the more he falls to the temptation of anger, the easier and more frequent it becomes, to use that anger. Eventually this would turn into hatred and the person could easily become extremely violent towards others.
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DarthAttorney
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
8/16/01 7:45pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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Poor little BootyRant. Struggling to wrap his feeble mind around such grandiose philosophical rhetoric. I won't "shut up" and nor will I suffer fools like yourself.
Everyone gives in to the Dark Side at some point. Whether it's deceiving others with a sock or trying to get someone else banned or IP scanning someone for our own peace of mind or entering an EZ Board without permission.
We're none of us innocent.
The only distiction is how deeply we dabble in the Darkness.
(nice aliteration, huh?  )
I suppose the only difference is how we justify our actions in our own minds.......
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DarthSeti5
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
8/16/01 8:02pm
Subject:
RE: Sheath, Jedi teachings???
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Well, as someone once said, we all lie. DA brings up a good point, we all do bad things, so does that mean we're all bad? That's another reason why I don't look at the Force as polarized Dark and Light. It's us who are dark and light.
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What you feel only matters to you.
It's what you do to the people you say you love, that's what matters.
It's the only thing that counts.
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