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Topic:
CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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SSDExecutor
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 9:16am
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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ValedaKor posted:
I wish I could say that they are building "a lot" of hotels -- but that is not in the plans. What has been started are two hotels totally 1,001 rooms (for Ritz-Carlton and Marriott), which will be completed sometime in 2010. Phase 2 of the LA Live project does include restaurants, and is slated to be finished in 2009.
But I don't think the timetable will keep the next Celebration from being in L.A. The room to move around is a big selling point.
Oh well... I didn't pay much attention to what they were building - I just assumed that they were all hotels, kinda sucks that they aren't but the LA Live project sounds nice - that alone would make it a better experience - I don't mind staying at the Fig again for the con especially if there was a lot more to do within walking distance.
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Mokitty
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 9:48am
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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That's nice to hear, but how many actually made it for CIII?
For some reason I had it in my head the final attendance numbers that time around were 33000, which would mean CIV really only beat the last by 2000 people, in spite of the much huger local population around them buying one-day passes.
In either case, though, I would think that the number 35000 is still somewhat deceptive, since on any given day there (with the exception perhaps of Monday) it seemed that about half the people I saw wandering around were just locals and were sporting one-day badges. I know it still means there were more people there in total over the course of the thing, but this could perhaps have contributed to it seeming "emptier"-- a good portion of the people there were just there on a casual basis to check out a few things or buy some stuff before going home. Saturday in particular was the big day while the other days, there just weren't as many people showing up.
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Captain_Typho
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 11:15am
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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Grimby the Hutt posted:
Wow, I had the impression that more people attended C3. It's good to know that even without any upcoming movie hype, CIV was a success.
I would have thought so too. Maybe it seemed less people because the con center was a lot bigger this time. Anyways, well done everyone! Star Wars is forever!
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Doctor_Evil
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 11:18am
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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Mokitty posted:
That's nice to hear, but how many actually made it for CIII?
For some reason I had it in my head the final attendance numbers that time around were 33000, which would mean CIV really only beat the last by 2000 people, in spite of the much huger local population around them buying one-day passes.
In either case, though, I would think that the number 35000 is still somewhat deceptive, since on any given day there (with the exception perhaps of Monday) it seemed that about half the people I saw wandering around were just locals and were sporting one-day badges. I know it still means there were more people there in total over the course of the thing, but this could perhaps have contributed to it seeming "emptier"-- a good portion of the people there were just there on a casual basis to check out a few things or buy some stuff before going home. Saturday in particular was the big day while the other days, there just weren't as many people showing up.
Attendance is attendance. Peak attendence (Saturday, I'm sure) is the figure they will use. How many individual passes for Saturday were bought, combined with all four-day badges sold plus VIPs, media and volunteers. Just like CIII or any event like this would use.
CIII had then same attendance pattern as CIV, so I don't see how this is any different. At CIII, Thursday was not very crowded and Sunday (The last day) was pretty desolate as well. Saturday was the big crush of walk ups that got the fire marshall to cut off sales. Walk ups and people attending less than every day is nothing new. It is the nature of these events. If you want to read this release negatively, I'm sure you can find a way.
I love this "Only beat the last one by 2000." With no movie to promote, no TV shows actually on the air, no New DVD's out and the big Video game Tie in pushed back to next year. Not to mention a whole stable of doubters who assumed they spoke for WAY more people than they actually did, continually saying that the move to LA was the worst idea in the history of man and how they'd be lucky to get 15,000 because of it.
The desolate nature of the Downtown LA area very well may negatively affect the attendance of future Celebrations in LA. At least until that big Hotel and entertainment complex is finished. But this year that was a non factor, since most Con goers were unfamiliar with the area. I know just from the research I've done since CIII that there are several Cities with a better layout of Hotels, Restaraunts and Night spots around the Con center, (Minneapolis being my personal favorite option) but the rumor is that LA gave LFL a sweetheart deal to get CIV to come there. Depending on how good that deal is, it might really be tough to get the next couple of Celebrations away from LA.
-Al
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Mokitty
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 4:42pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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You sound like you're pretty angry about something. I did not say anywhere that I thought the convention was a failure, and I was not making an attack on any person nor on the city of Los Angeles; merely stating a theory. Your ranting sarcasm was really uncalled for.
Many people, whether for or against the relocation to L.A., have commented that the convention generally seemed to have fewer people. Several have asserted that the larger space was the cause, and it almost certainly was a main factor. But if CIV did in fact have only slightly more people in total than CIII, and even a small fraction of those people came only on Saturday, then that would indeed mean that it's possible that for the rest of the weekend, the LACC had fewer people inside than CIII did for most of the weekend. Maybe my perception is skewed, but it seems that there were more people at this one with one-day passes than in Indy, and that would certainly be in line with the much higher population the Los Angeles area has (and therefore much higher number of potential drop-ins). The effect would be compounded by the fact that this convention lasted 5 days where CIII only lasted for four.
Again, no where did I say that I'm reading this release "negatively", nor that I'm "doubting" L.A. or claiming to speak for other people. I'd just be curious what formula they used to come up with this number -- does it represent the largest number that was there at the the peak time (I'm not sure how they'd calculate that, with so many entrances and no one counting the people entering and leaving)? Is that the number of all types of passes purchased in total over the 5 days? And what percentage of the people represented in this total, if it does reflect total badge sales, were one-day passes?
More badges sold is more badges sold, period. They broke their previous record -- good for them. All I'm suggesting is that depending on how they calculated the total, the general feeling that there were "fewer people in the convention center" at any given time may also be correct.
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carmenite
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 8:08pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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Mokitty posted:
The effect would be compounded by the fact that this convention lasted 5 days where CIII only lasted for four.
Keep in mind that, for all intents and purposes, it really was only 4 days. The fifth day was only open to fan club members with 4-day passes (and their friends/family that had 4-day passes), so that wouldn't have increased one-day ticket sales at all - only 4-day ticket sales.
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Mokitty
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 8:26pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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I know 
I did take that into account, but I'd wager that most of us here probably WERE in the fanclub and attended that day, and since NO one-day passholders attended that day, if anything it probably added to the psychological "there's not so many people here" effect. That's not to say, though, that the effect of fewer people attending fanclub day invalidates the possibility of there actually being a lower per-day average than the "35000" figure might lead one to initially conclude.
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carmenite
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 9:40pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
- Date Edited:
6/15/07 9:41pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
carmenite
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I'm not sure I follow you 100%.
I wouldn't count fanclub-only when you're calculating the per-day average, because there were obviously significantly less that day then there were on any of the other days, because they're drawing from a smaller number that could attend. Are you counting that in your per-day average?
And if you don't count Thursday in your calculations, then the per-day average would be higher than for C3, because there were more people overall, and the same number of days.
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Doctor_Evil
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 10:08pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
- Date Edited:
6/15/07 10:22pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Doctor_Evil
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Mokitty posted:
I know
I did take that into account, but I'd wager that most of us here probably WERE in the fanclub and attended that day, and since NO one-day passholders attended that day, if anything it probably added to the psychological "there's not so many people here" effect. That's not to say, though, that the effect of fewer people attending fanclub day invalidates the possibility of there actually being a lower per-day average than the "35000" figure might lead one to initially conclude.
If you are not counting at the door then the ONLY way to do it is the number of TOTAL 4 day passes combined with whatever day had the most single day passes. That is your peak possible attendance and that is the figure that will be sited. It is a best case scenario. (Or worst case if you are the fire marshall) Big shows like this rarely, if ever, release daily figures. They want and need one number to represent the size of their event. "X-number of people" attended or to "Vague" it up a bit, "Over X-Number" of people attneded. The tally probably came out to 35,006 or something, giving them the leeway to use the "Over" phrasing. If it was anything between 34,000 and 34,999 then they'd spin it by saying "Nearly 35,000."
Know this as well, that number will almost surely not accurately reflect how many people were in the facilty at it's actual peak time. Some folks who preorded passes did not go at the last minute and I know that some four day pass holders did not attend every day or only half days sometimes. But if you are not going to take a head count in and out and track it each hour of each day, it is the only way to do it. And BTW, it is the same way it was done for C3 and most other conventions of this type and size. So in a way you are correct. It is not really an accurate accounting of people in the place at any one time. But it is a number that represents the size of your event relative to other events that have their attenance measured the same way. It's not an average. It's not meant to be. However, I can see how the general vaugeness of the story could at first blush, be taken that way. But if you really put some common sense to it it is clear what they had to do to get their numbers.
Sorry if I came across as angery but when I see a bunch of "Seems" and "felt likes" in a post that, to me, is doubting the figures, I get a little perturbed. I know a little about this stuff, having promoted concerts and trade shows in my former career and your earlier post, to me came across as grasping at something to be negative about. And believe me, promoters are not above inflating their figures, but I need more than "It seemed less crowded to me" to convince me that is the case in such a high profile event as C4. Especially when I was there myself at C3 and C4 and I had no doubt that C4 had at least as many people on Saturday as C3 did.
-Doc
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miarama
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 10:27pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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Captain_Typho posted:
Grimby the Hutt posted:
Wow, I had the impression that more people attended C3. It's good to know that even without any upcoming movie hype, CIV was a success.
I would have thought so too. Maybe it seemed less people because the con center was a lot bigger this time. Anyways, well done everyone! Star Wars is forever!
I referred to both the official maps of the Celebrations to account for the areas that were rented (they were highlighted & labeled). I did not count the shaded areas as I assumed those areas were not rented/not used for the public. I also referred to both IndyCC and LACC websites to obtain the square footage of each area.
CIII (square feet)
Autograph Hall 43,754
C@C, Opening Ceremonies 47,160
Fan Fair Hall 43,492
Exhibit Hall 87,865
Celebration Store 52,080
Saga Stage 29,500
Ballrooms 68,904
Meeting rooms 48,976
GRAND TOTAL 421,731
CIV (square feet)
Fan Fair Hall 96,660
Exhibit & Autograph Hall 153,570
Celebration Hall 96,660
Laser Tag 63,619
Celebration Store 147,506
Petree & Concourse Stage 47,899
Meeting Rooms 63,509
GRAND TOTAL 669,423
It seems like the LACC exceeded Indy by 248,000 sq. ft. of EVENT SPACE.
This doesn't include the eating areas and lobby areas. LACC had a lot more of those than Indy. Add to that LA's high vaulted ceilings. This all adds up to CIV seeming like there's less people.
I hope the organizers made some money out of this  Please let there be a CV 
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Mokitty
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 11:41pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see it say anywhere that 35000 was "peak" attendance, and that's entirely what I'm wondering. Was it peak, or was it total passes sold. I'm not doubting the number, just wondering what exactly it represents.
carmenite posted:
And if you don't count Thursday in your calculations, then the per-day average would be higher than for C3, because there were more people overall, and the same number of days.
Not necessarily. Again, this plays back to why I was a bit curious, since it would depend entirely on what percentage of people at each convention were single-day passholders. If CIV had a significantly higher ratio of single-day to four-day passholders, then regardless of the final tally, it's still possible that there could have been, as a daily average, fewer people on-site, whether you count the fanclub day or not.
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carmenite
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 12:24am
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
- Date Edited:
6/16/07 12:29am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
carmenite
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Mokitty posted:
Was it peak, or was it total passes sold. I'm not doubting the number, just wondering what exactly it represents.
I think it's safe to assume that it's total passes sold, since the wording is "More than 35,000 individuals attended the Celebration between May 23 and 28 in the Los Angeles Convention Center." If it were peak, then it would say '35,000 individuals were there on *day* which was the busiest day' or something like that.
Mokitty posted:
Not necessarily. Again, this plays back to why I was a bit curious, since it would depend entirely on what percentage of people at each convention were single-day passholders. If CIV had a significantly higher ratio of single-day to four-day passholders, then regardless of the final tally, it's still possible that there could have been, as a daily average, fewer people on-site, whether you count the fanclub day or not.
Unless I'm doing my math wrong, the daily average, not counting fanclub day, was around 8750. If you include fanclub day, it's around 7000. I'm not quite sure how the number of single-day vs four-day passholders would affect that?
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Dingo
Title: Former Head Admin
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 2:10am
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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I'm not surprised by the number. In fact, I'm pretty sure I said to someone over the weekend (Sunday or Monday) that I wouldn't have been surprised at CIV beating CIII's 33K.
People I think are forgetting that both the Celebration Stage and Petrie Hall could hold about 2000 each, with each of the other rooms holding probably 500 at least, with the lines for all of them being hidden for the most part (eg the BtS ones were in 2 other rooms across the hall, the Petrie being outside). Add to that with the exception of Thursday itself, and then Monday afternoon, the South Lobby/food court/escalators/exhibition hall entrance area never was less than 3/4ths full and something similar for the Exhibition Hall itself.
I don't know, maybe it's just that I'm more used to open area large crowds after our sporting/concert venues and Olympic Park in 2000.
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Capt-SithPaark
Registered:
Feb '04
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 6:52am
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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Our group ran into Ian Liston (Janson, At-At Driver) at Universal Studios 2 days after CIV had finished and he stated that - (Quote) - "It wasn't really good, Attendance was down"
Now, is that down from the figure that the celebs were told would be there or from the CIII attendance figure???
No worries, (in looking at it "From a certain point of view")
There will be another Celebration - An Under-Attended Celebration makes more money for everybody than NO Celebration at all!
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ValedaKor
Title: C-IV RSA
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 7:53am
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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Maybe someone can tell me what difference it makes, what the attendance was? In an off-movie year, with nothing concrete to promote? I think we did well to have the numbers we did. I'm just glad I went and didn't have to fight my way through crowds every second. It was a breath of fresh air, literally and figuratively. Especially since I'll be facing Comic-Con crowds next month.
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