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Topic:
CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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Mokitty
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 11:49am
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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I'll be the first to say it doesn't really make any difference. It's just a matter of bored curiosity for me.
And to answer your question, carmenite, you've come up with the average passes sold per day, where I'm talking about the average people on site per day, since so many people expressed the feeling that there were fewer present. I rarely get a chance to use the math side of my brain, so mostly for my own brain-ersize, I'll use it now.
DISCLAIMER: The percentages of one-day passes I'm choosing here are completely arbitrary "what ifs". I'm not claiming to know how many of each there were, nor, again, am I attacking CIV as a "failure". I loved CIV, this is just for my own and anyone else who's curious' entertainment. So flaming is not necessary! 
Using 2000 census data, Los Angeles County has a population of 9,519,338 while Marion County (containing Indianapolis) has 860,454. Indy has about 9% of the population of Los Angeles. I'm just saying that to illustrate what I said about L.A. having a much larger pool of potential drop-ins so that you won't instantly balk at my next numbers.
Assuming that CIII had 30000 passes sold in total (I remember it as 33000, but can't find that number published anywhere at the moment to cite), let's assume 5% of them (1500 people) were Friday-only and the same number (1500 people) were Saturday-only. In that case, the attendance for Thursday and Sunday would have been 30000-1500*2=27000 people each day. The Friday and Saturday attendance was then 30000-1500=28500 each day.
Take Thursday + Friday + Saturday + Sunday's totals, 27000*2+28500*2= 111000, divided by four days is 27750 people on average who were actually in the building each day.
CIV had 35000 passes sold in total. Now, if you assume that 15% of those passes (5250 people) were for Friday only (and here is where the much larger local population might come into play), and an equal number were for Saturday only. In that case, the attendance on Sunday and Monday would have been 35000-5250*2=24500 people each. The Friday and Saturday attendance would then be 35000-5250=29750 each.
Again, add the on-site totals for each day, 24500*2+29750*2=108500, divided by the four days gives an average daily attendance of 27125 people.
So you can see that using those [completely arbitrary off-the top of my head not based in fact] numbers, with an increase in single-day pass sales of only 3.5 times (out of a local population 11 times the size of Indy), CIV could have had a lower daily average of attendance than CIII, even though they beat the total pass sales by a pretty good margin. So the general feeling that there were fewer people inside the convention at any given time was not necessarily just an illusion of the space.
And I know I've just effectively tagged myself with a big black "anal nerdy jerk" mark, but crunching some numbers was an extremely refreshing intellectual change from all the dry philosophy, deduction and memorization involved in the study of history I'm currently in the midst of (making me feel like this:  ) so perhaps a few of you will give me pardon on this one.
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JediJustin
Registered:
Aug '06
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 12:44pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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Wow - I never would have thought that an up-beat thread like this would receive a post with a Disclaimer in it.
The old adage is true - some Star Wars fans can NEVER be happy. 
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Justin LaSalata - Microsoft MCSE
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ValedaKor
Title: C-IV RSA
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 1:33pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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I would counter all that by saying that once again, it doesn't matter one whit how they crunch these numbers, who did or didn't go, how many people from around here went (there were a lot - a lot -- of other things to do in Southern California that weekend), etcetera, etcetera. I went, my friends (old and new) went, and we all had a good time. There could have been 25 other people there besides me, or 25,000, or 50,000 - I still would have had a good time meeting up with old friends and making new ones. That is all that matters.
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Mokitty
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 1:40pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
- Date Edited:
6/16/07 1:44pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Mokitty
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Mokitty posted:
I'll be the first to say it doesn't really make any difference.
And as I said right after, it was just a matter of bored curiosity for me. The disclaimer was there to prevent exactly the types of replies I just got.
As it said,
Mokitty posted:
I loved CIV
I'm not sure how you get from that that I'm unhappy.
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ValedaKor
Title: C-IV RSA
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 2:44pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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We're not flaming you, Mokitty. You have your opinion, and we have ours. I don't see the need to have this back and forth discussion any longer. I think you'd agree that you've stated your position.
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ardavenport
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 4:07pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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I don't really understand the numbers for attendance. I don't think you could get an accurate count without a breakdown of the badge types sold - day badges vs. 4 day, which days, etc.
CIV felt well attended on all days to me. We just had more space to walk around in than for CIII.
I don't have a problem with a theoretical CV being in LA, unless The Big One hits between now and then. But I officially don't want to see it until those new hotels are online. I think that a 2010, TESB-30th-anniversary Celebration would be an excellent way to break them in.  The logistics of getting between hotels and convention center was my one big gripe I would have for CIV.
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AaylaSecurOWNED
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 4:09pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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Everytime I saw Mokitty's user name before, I would think "Mo' Kitty, Mo' Problems" for no really explicable reason except maybe that I like Notorious BIG more than I ever thought I did. But now having read this thread it appears my prophesy has come true.
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Women. Jedi. No.
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Doctor_Evil
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 8:27pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
- Date Edited:
6/16/07 9:07pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Doctor_Evil
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ardavenport posted:
The logistics of getting between hotels and convention center was my one big gripe I would have for CIV.
Oh Yes! Couldn't agree more! However, don't look for those new rooms to be at all cheap. I'll bet they start at $160 a night and will go up from there.
-Doc
Edit - Upon further reasearch of other Ritz Carltons rates... the LA Ritz Carlton Rooms will probably Start at around $300 per room per night by 2010. Have fun! I'll be back at the Days Inn renting a car, thank you.
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Mokitty
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 8:46pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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AaylaSecurOWNED posted:
Everytime I saw Mokitty's user name before, I would think "Mo' Kitty, Mo' Problems" for no really explicable reason except maybe that I like Notorious BIG more than I ever thought I did. But now having read this thread it appears my prophesy has come true.
That was necessary. I think this is one of the grand failings of the internet, there's a lot of nuances that just can't be expressed. I didn't really have a position to state, though I kind of feel like a few people have been trying to force one on me. I was only tossing in a little food for thought. I know I'm not being outright flamed (least of all by you, Valedakor), but there are a few that seem to be insinuating that I was in some way dissatisfied with CIV even though I never said that. CIV was buckets of fun and I'm well glad it went off the way it did -- I thought I had made that clear, but it seems I'm still being misinterpreted. No one likes feeling like someone's putting words in their mouth (words on their keyboard?), least of all when the words are opposite to one's actual feelings.
In any case, as I said, it just felt nice to use the math side of my brain. Idle wonderings on a study break, from a geek who never gets to deal with maths or science anymore. I guess I should have known better than to try to actually think on the internet. 
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Doctor_Evil
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/16/07 9:06pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
- Date Edited:
6/16/07 9:08pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Doctor_Evil
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AaylaSecurOWNED posted:
Everytime I saw Mokitty's user name before, I would think "Mo' Kitty, Mo' Problems" for no really explicable reason except maybe that I like Notorious BIG more than I ever thought I did. But now having read this thread it appears my prophesy has come true.
Yeah, I give. I've been "intellectualized" right out of the thread at this point. I don't even CARE how many people were there anymore. All I know for sure is that I was there. I think I can prove that by math... but I could be wrong.
-Doc
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CarolynNC
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
6/17/07 4:10am
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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We encounter statistical information in many forms during our daily lives. Results can be spun to reflect the results the reporter wants to put out there. We spout the statistics that support our position. Comparisons can be made and it’s a great mental exercise. Without all data points it’s just an exercise. That’s not a bad thing. We could all stand to flex those muscles!
What does it matter? Not much. But, this is a discussion thread about attendance at C4. Attendance numbers may have impact on whether there is a C5, where C5 will be, how many days it’s held. Inquiring minds want to know. I found the discussion interesting and many of the issues raised were the same ones drifting along in my thought processes.
I like to hear all sides of an issue because it gets me thinking. I’m saddened when posts degenerate to personal attacks. It doesn’t add to the discussion.
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
6/17/07 2:59pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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Just based on attending both C3 and C4 everyday, I don't see how C4 could have topped C3's attendance. Yes, I know larger facility - doesn't matter. There just weren't as many people anywhere.
But if these numbers increase the possibility of future Celebrations, cool. Just be honest about it. and bring back George, Rick, Nick, etc to ensure they do get an attendance broken attendance record ...really.
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carmenite
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
6/17/07 3:14pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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lovelucas posted:
Just based on attending both C3 and C4 everyday, I don't see how C4 could have topped C3's attendance. Yes, I know larger facility - doesn't matter. There just weren't as many people anywhere.
But if these numbers increase the possibility of future Celebrations, cool. Just be honest about it. and bring back George, Rick, Nick, etc to ensure they do get an attendance broken attendance record ...really.
I don't understand this line of thought at all. You really think they LIED about it? Seriously? Just for poops and giggles?
And, yes, a larger facility DOES matter. When the rooms hold significantly more people, and there are more of them, and when we're spread out over multiple floors, and when the exhibition hall is bigger, and when the fan hall is bigger, then the same number of people are going to look like less people.
Think about it logically - if you have room that seats 1000 people and there are 1000 people in it, and if you have a room that seats 2000 people, and there are 1000 people in it, the first room is going to look like it has more people.
They're not going to lie about it for smurf's sake.
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Psxjedi76
Title: FF CR Boise, ID
Webmaster
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
6/17/07 5:34pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
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SSDExecutor posted:
C1, 1999 - Episode I
C2, 2002 - Episode II
C3, 2005 - Episode III
C4, 2007 - 30th: Episode IV
C5, 2010 - 30th: Episode V (?)
C6, 2013 - 30th: Episode VI (?)
Makes sense to me... we'll see.
Why not
C5, 2009 10th: Episode I
CE2, 2010 30th: Episode V
C6, 2012 10th: Episode II
CE3, 2013 30th Episode VI
C7, 2015 10th: Episode III
C8, 2017 40th: Episode IV
CE4, 2019 20th: Episode I
C9, 2020 40th: Episode V
CE5, 2022 20th: Episode II
C10, 2023 40th: Episode VI
CE6, 2025 20th: Episode III
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AaylaSecurOWNED
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/17/07 5:56pm
Subject:
RE: CIV Breaks Attendance Record
- Date Edited:
6/17/07 5:59pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
AaylaSecurOWNED
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Psxjedi76 posted:
SSDExecutor posted:
C1, 1999 - Episode I
C2, 2002 - Episode II
C3, 2005 - Episode III
C4, 2007 - 30th: Episode IV
C5, 2010 - 30th: Episode V (?)
C6, 2013 - 30th: Episode VI (?)
Makes sense to me... we'll see.
Why not
C5, 2009 10th: Episode I
CE2, 2010 30th: Episode V
C6, 2012 10th: Episode II
CE3, 2013 30th Episode VI
C7, 2015 10th: Episode III
C8, 2017 40th: Episode IV
CE4, 2019 20th: Episode I
C9, 2020 40th: Episode V
CE5, 2022 20th: Episode II
C10, 2023 40th: Episode VI
CE6, 2025 20th: Episode III
Or, assuming they start doing Celebrations in Australia
C5, 2009 10th: Episode I
CE2, 2010 30th: Episode V
CA, 2011 6th: Episode III
C6, 2012 10th: Episode II
CE3, 2013 30th: Episode VI
CA2, 2014 12th: Episode II
C7, 2015 10th: Episode III
CE4, 2016 36th: Episode V
C8, 2017 40th: Episode IV
CE5, 2019 20th: Episode I
C9, 2020 40th: Episode V
CE6, 2022 20th: Episode II
CA3, 2024 44th: Episode V
C10, 2023 40th: Episode VI
CE7, 2025 20th: Episode III
CA4, 2036 37th: Episode I
C11, 2077 100th: Episode IV
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