Jedi Council Forums - Communication

[TheForce.Net] Jedi Council Forums » Inactive Forums: Jedi Council » Focus Group: Fan Fiction v2.0 » Communication

Locked Topic | Read Only Topic | Previous Active Topic | ~~Next Active Topic~~

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 - ~~Previous~~ | Next | Reload

Author	Topic: Communication
LadyPadme Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 6/20/05 5:39pm Subject: Communication - Date Edited: 7/7/05 6:58pm (1 edits total) Edited By: LadyPadme
	The main focus of this thread should be to work on ways to improve mod/user interaction and communication. What would both users and moderators suggest for keeping lines of communication open and for building trust between both sides? -----signature----- Crest MD Naimé Evil Twin of Gabri_Jade When a baby smiles the world is happy In Name Only http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/18395678 Battlestar Galactica rocks! http://boomergirl.proboards102.com/index.cgi - For Sharon/Helo lovers
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DarthBreezy Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/20/05 7:18pm Subject: RE: Communication
	I covered most of my points in the other thread. Trust and respect must be earned, and it's much harder to regain once it's lost. Again, I cite the idea that both LadyPadme and Healer Leona have gone a long way to help build the bridges, and I do believe that users have responded positively. I myself am much more inclined to seek them out if I see a problem in fan fic that needs addressing as apposed to the mentality of "They don't care, why should I?" -----signature----- Although the singer is silent, There is still the truth of the song. http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28747916/p1/ Sailing little Boats - with GoldenJedi Anywhere is possible.
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DarthBreezy Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/21/05 6:22am Subject: RE: Communication - Date Edited: 6/21/05 6:33am (1 edits total) Edited By: DarthBreezy
	I'll pop this here, as it demonstrates in part what's being perceived as wrong with the style of comunication in our forum; (I'll post other parts in the other threads as they pertain to them.) This is from a PM I received from a user named Doug, and I have permission to use exerts.... Emphasis is mine. Well, I have been a semi active member here for a little over a year. I have been a lurker here for about two years. I personally have had no major interaction with the mods except for a pm I sent to Herman and Dana about a post I planned on making in my story that I thought might be pushing the PG rating. Both replied to me pretty quickly and both allowed the post (though the opinion between the two varied slightly) I HAVE, however, noticed the language that Herman and Dana use when moderating. Herman tends to use sarcasm and...uh..whit? (DB edit: Wit) when he speaks. I have never really seen anything wrong with it, and at times I've thought it was rather funny, but I can see why some people would have issues with it. Dana has always come across as being very crisp and almost volitile in her modding and that is something that I don't approve of. I am too old to have a young woman speaking to me like my mother..in fact my mother never spoke to me the way she has to some people. I don't agree with the "Because I say so" policy some mods tend to use. I feel that an explanation of why a mod "decrees" something not only helps to difuse and argument but also helps to avoid future violations. Edited because the last part belongs in another thread. -----signature----- Although the singer is silent, There is still the truth of the song. http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28747916/p1/ Sailing little Boats - with GoldenJedi Anywhere is possible.
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
TKeira_Lea Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 6/21/05 1:53pm Subject: RE: Communication
	I am going to respond to a couple things KK said in the Issues thread here, because they relate exactly to the goal of this thread. KK: I may be a little blunt with some of my observations, so I ask that none of you take offense at anything I say, because no offense is intended in any way. From what I see, most of the problems here come from poor communication, a lack of trust, and a focus on the "wrongs" of the past. You're right on. No offense taken. Communication is a critical aspect to any forum. When it breaks down, it is a failure on everyone's part. Pointing fingers at one side or the other does nothing to actually address the root cause of the breakdown in communication. If anything, it drives people away from solving the real problem. Just like the old saying, "If the student doesn't learn, the teacher isn't teaching", if the listener doesn't hear, the speaker isn't communicating. Communication is, and has to be, a team effort. Now I am not going to disagree with you completely, but I'd like to point out that many of us have been crying for more communication from the mods for a while. And crying to the admin for help too. Now perhaps we haven't always gone about it the right way, but I can't help but look at the post histories of Herman and Dana. I can only go so far, in fact I can extend the hand, but if they choose not to reach out in turn then...What do you propose we do? To me it seems then that admin has a responsibility to compel the other side to communicate. I will say this here once - I hope Herman truly has an issue with his modem. I hope it's just that. I hope he jumps into this FG with two feet and communicates. I can only wonder on those possibilities because all I have is what I see - Herman's last log on was after the deadline for the mods to post in the FG Issues thread, and he had taken time to post elsewhere yet couldn't even say Boo! in the Welcome thread. However, that also has to work both ways. Just like the moderators need to listen to and try to understand what users are saying, the users need to listen to and try to understand what the moderators are saying. By "try to understand", I don't mean "try to read what they said to fit preconceptions". I mean "try to read what they said as they mean it". A corollary to that is the remember that we are all people trying to help out here. Don't assume the worst of people, and try to fit their statements to that assumption. Assume the best of them, and try to work together. Honestly, if you read the threads we've been asking the mods all along to explain themselves. We've been ready and willing to listen. The major reason this is so maddening to many is that talking to some of the mods is akin to yelling at a stone. You'd have a better chance of getting a response out of the stone. Unfortunately the idea of preconceptions is that there is typically a reason for it. I'd argue that some people coming into this FG had completely different preconceptions a couple months back. Take for instance Breezy – her original beef was with LP, and she was one of Dana's supporters. Breezy had gone so far to prove that while she was critical of LP she was more than willing to give her a chance once the lines of communication were opened. (Proof that we both need to give a little for this to work.) And moreover still, Breezy now expresses that Dana's ways and methods aren't necessarily for the best. I'd say that Dana changed Breezy's perceptions on her own, so a preconception can in fact be earned. To add to that Dana's One post did little to answer issues but only raised more. Herman has no post. I'd love to dispel preconceived notions of people but honestly, when someone whacks you with a modstick – in an illegal hit no less – you'd be inclined to put up your defenses. Honestly, there is little Dana can do to gain my trust. Not until she edits the post in question – as has been asked – will I even begin to dispel that preconceived notion because as far as I'm concerned there is one big lie hanging out there that she can change and has chosen not to do so. It's unfair for you to ask me to do otherwise. A lack of trust is closely related to the communication issue, and in many ways serves as one of the causes of it. It seems to me that some users simply don't trust certain moderators for various reasons, sometimes on the silliest basis. Do you really think my reasons are silly? Did you read them? Do you really think some of the others reasons are silly? Let me give you a non-FanFic example. I think that your case is unfortunate. Honestly though everyone on this FG who has expressed concern about Dana did not jump on her out of the box. She earned this rep. Yes, I felt she wasn't the best choice for mod but I honestly don't even move in her circles so it wasn't until months after Dana was made a mod that I even took issue with her. And even then I didn't go screaming to admin. My first PM to admin concerning Dana was in January and I think it was a just PM. Her actions changed afterwards. YodaKenobi has never really had an incident with Dana; his objections are based on observation. ThrawnMcEwok was friendly with Dana until the interspecies debate. Breezy was Dana's supporter in the days of the Fanfic Survey. So you are in no way seeing a group who started out wanting to get Dana as has been reported. Yes, trust must be earned, not just given, but it is also a two-way street. You have to be willing to give other people the opportunity to earn your trust. You need to give them the benefit of the doubt. Don't let your personal biases color your evaluation of someone's trustworthiness. You know, I think when Dana came back in and started to talk – even apologized to me in the WHTG thread – I was wondering if perhaps she could do this right. Then she managed to – singlehandedly – blow Herman's open letter thread into an all out slugfest. How many chances are we supposed to give people? And honestly, how is it that this seems to come down the feelings of a mod over the feelings of many users? Related to that, I have often seen people (all over the forums, especially in Comms) base their trust in someone else on how much he agrees with their positions. That is one of the most ludicrous reasons to trust someone. That basically boils down to only trusting "yes-men", and eventually leads to massive errors in judgement. Well that's a silly way to base trust. Certainly it's a part of human nature, but I can say that I have completely different likes in storytelling than Breezy, completely disagreed with the way LP and Leona have chosen to mod some things, found that my beliefs and 'ships run far different from many users yet I can trust them. Look at YodaKenobi, he really doesn't agree with the interspecies rule or Ewok's need to write it, yet they agree that it was modded all wrong. So I think we've proven that trust has nothing to do with liking each other's stories or whatever. Finally, all too often people focus on the past wrongs. You can't go back and fix the past, no matter how much you want to or try to. Study the past, learn from it, but do not focus on wrongs that need to be righted from the past. As my grandfather always used to say, make sure you are running towards something, not away from something. I will respectfully disagree on this matter. It is the people who do not look to history who repeat its mistakes. While I don't think we should dwell on things, the lessons learned are in the past. To be fair too, when you decide on how long someone's ban is going to be, don't you look at the offender's past record? The past if often relevant going forward... This discussion should absolutely not focus on what Dana, Leona, LP, Herman, McEwok, Breezy, or anyone else did or said. It should be focused on where we want FanFic to be, and what we have to do to get there. To chart a course, you only need to know where you are and where you need to go (although it helps to know what obstacles are in your path, too). The past should be left in the past. I think you're wrong here too. Look at it this way. If I tell a bunch of users that they are selfish and arrogant because they don't see things my way, then the thread erupts, how can any mod come in - after the events of the last few months - and tell me that is wrong? How could they tell anyone that it's wrong? The simple fact of that Awards history suggests that it isn't. If a user were to look at that thread today they would see a mod's post and think it's totally acceptable. Leaders lead by example. I don't even think you would condone the "Do as I say not as I do" mentality of modding. -----signature----- http://www.lominalecantina.com character often lies in contradiction ~ jfostrander01 Wingman - a post LotF fic http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28548970/p1/?219
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jesina_Dreis Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 6/21/05 6:57pm Subject: RE: Communication
	Four points I want to make... (1) Mods need to explain when they step into a thread and post as a moderator, whatever their reason for being there - and even more so when it's something ambiguous, like socialization. (2) Mods need to respond when their actions are question - a real explanation. But that goes hand in hand with... (3) Users have the responsibility not to create an environment so hostile that a mod doesn't feel that they are able to explain. (4) I think that policy discussions should be made with member input, and I think that if a moderator interprets a policy in a way that is different than the way members do, then it's time for discourse of some kind to be opened - and for all moderators to participate, to say "I think it's this way because..." and users to do the same. And, if it gets to an impasse, the way things did when Galadriel was modding regarding sexuality in fics, then owners should be involved - and I think it's helpful if the owner can come in and say "This is what I've decided" (and hopefully give an explanation) so users don't feel as if the mods are decreeing things at their whim. -----signature----- Stay safe, Ev Big sister to valin_halcyon Rest in Peace, Jeremy http://www.heatherjanes.com http://z9.invisionfree.com/downtime
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
TKeira_Lea Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 6/21/05 7:17pm Subject: RE: Communication
	Jes: (1) Mods need to explain when they step into a thread and post as a moderator, whatever their reason for being there - and even more so when it's something ambiguous, like socialization. Agreed. (2) Mods need to respond when their actions are question - a real explanation. But that goes hand in hand with... Agreed. (3) Users have the responsibility not to create an environment so hostile that a mod doesn't feel that they are able to explain. I'd like it to be that way. Honestly when the threads that have been modded for socialization have been asking for explanation for well over three months, is it unreasonable to become frustrated and even hostile? When a user has their PM quoted and misrepresented is it unreasonably for that user and others to be hostile? Unfortunately sometimes you reap what you sow. I'd like to say that the policy decision on the spoilers was an incident when neither users or mods behaved rightly. I have since discussed my actions with LP. The timing of the situation was poor at best, as we were on the heels of a great bit of mod mistrust. Mods acted hastily and responded heatedly; users were no better. We all need to work on that. So you're right, Jes, that we need to try to not be hostile. Dana and Herman are going to have to step up to the table to help facilitate that change though. We aren't going to just decide today that we trust them. (4) I think that policy discussions should be made with member input, and I think that if a moderator interprets a policy in a way that is different than the way members do, then it's time for discourse of some kind to be opened - and for all moderators to participate, to say "I think it's this way because..." and users to do the same. And, if it gets to an impasse, the way things did when Galadriel was modding regarding sexuality in fics, then owners should be involved - and I think it's helpful if the owner can come in and say "This is what I've decided" (and hopefully give an explanation) so users don't feel as if the mods are decreeing things at their whim. Honestly I think mods should not be writing policy. I think the Senate is supposed to be discussed elsewhere, but I'll use my idea for it here. The Senate would be a thread where users are allowed to discuss issues. Imagine it's May 11 and LP and Leona are starting to wonder if these few users who've asked for a spoiler policy change might have a point. They change the topic on the Senate thread - Urgent Discussion - Spoiler Policy change! I bet they would have gotten enough input and consensus to end up with the final ruling on the policy, without the ensuing drama we all endured. And bonus - if users were angered they didn't have only the mods to point a finger at -----signature----- http://www.lominalecantina.com character often lies in contradiction ~ jfostrander01 Wingman - a post LotF fic http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28548970/p1/?219
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
YodaKenobi Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 6/22/05 1:25am Subject: RE: Communication
	Again, TKL has said a lot that I would have, so I'll try not to be too redundant, other than to say I agree with her. As I said in the issues thread, I think communication is important, but it's not a fix-all. Lack of it creates problems and only amplifies existing troubles. I actually disagree with DarthBreezy about trust and respect being earned as far as it goes with moderators. When I see a moderator or most users for that reason, I automatically respect them, and as far as trust goes, I trust the moderators on the spot. No requirement other than the colors. That's what makes it all the worse when one of them breaks that trust by violating the rules or quoting a PM to an admin. I wouldn't hesitate however to send a PM of concern to LadyPadme or Leona, and have in the past. I also know if I make a post addressed to one of them, or if they lock or edit something, they are going to communicate why actions are taken. That willingness, and courtesy really makes things run a lot smoother. The problem is a lot of users' concerns were ignored, or perceived to have been ignored for months regarding a whole host of issues, including concerns about the actions of one or more of the moderators. I will post more later, but it's getting late and, even for me -----signature----- FADA Therapist The Lands of the Dead: http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28522077/p1/ Blood Trail: http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28636429/p1 "We're Jedi, not assassins."— Anakin Solo
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
red_rose_knight Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 6/22/05 9:46am Subject: RE: Communication
	Points Jesina brought up: (1) Mods need to explain when they step into a thread and post as a moderator, whatever their reason for being there - and even more so when it's something ambiguous, like socialization. (2) Mods need to respond when their actions are question - a real explanation. But that goes hand in hand with... I agree with both points. (3) Users have the responsibility not to create an environment so hostile that a mod doesn't feel that they are able to explain. Users have a responsibility to not create an environment so hostile that other users do not fell they are able to participate. And by a definition that has often popped up, mods are users too. That is what is expected of users overall, and not just directed to the mods, but everyone. The mods also have this responsibility toward the users. If the mods are that intimidated even to explain a public mod action, then is that job really for them? The job is hardly chocolate and roses, most know that going into it and if not, many find out very quickly. You have to expect to have your actions, rightly or wrongly, closely examined and questioned. That's part of the job. And the more the mods are out there, up front with clarifications, willing to engage users, the less intimidation and hostility there will be and the more willing users will be to open dialogues. Rarely do situations (like fanfic is in now) happen all in one fell swoop. They are a combination of incidents that build up over time. Before things got this bad, could the mods have taken steps to change the direction? Could they have been more active, more proactive, more willing to explain actions and open dialogues? Users were asking for explanations. Granted, some are more willing to listen than others, but opportunities were there to make moves and in far too many cases they were not taken or taken so late, the damage so big, that it's going to take a lot of work to reverse. (4) I think that policy discussions should be made with member input, and I think that if a moderator interprets a policy in a way that is different than the way members do, then it's time for discourse of some kind to be opened - and for all moderators to participate, to say "I think it's this way because..." and users to do the same. And, if it gets to an impasse, the way things did when Galadriel was modding regarding sexuality in fics, then owners should be involved - and I think it's helpful if the owner can come in and say "This is what I've decided" (and hopefully give an explanation) so users don't feel as if the mods are decreeing things at their whim. Pretty much works for me. -----signature----- The beautiful part of writing is that you don't have to get it right the first time, unlike, say, a brain surgeon. – Robert Cromier
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DarthBreezy Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/22/05 5:06pm Subject: RE: Communication
	More stuff from the gallery, (note, I don't write this, just passing it along;) User A) Users, you have the responsibility of approaching a mod before you post something you know may very well be against the TOS. If you don't think you should have to do that, then don't complain when a mod locks your thread or deletes your post. We also have the duty of approaching a mod as an authority figure, and never going on "bash fests" (quotes used to show my own tongue-in-cheek, not to imply that another or myself has actually used the term)that would put the mods on defensive mode (honestly, that's one of the things that I think went wrong in this run-around). I would also like to see mods/admin communicating with the "common" user for policy changes. (Maybe this calls for a special "Senate" thread, maybe not). Communication as a mod and as a user is essential and a common courtesy that should not be above reasonable expectations. User B) I have seen several instances where mods have come into a thread and have warned users to do "such and such" and when questioned why, they either gave a oversimplified answer such as "because we think so" or " because we say so". The most notable in my opinion would be the goings on in the Teenage Writer's Society Thread. This threads is not a typical character thread and, from what I understand, is a socializatin thread where teenagers can socialize with peole their own age and discuss writing. A mod should be brought into a thread when the thread originatot can no longer keep the peace, or when events become heated in such a way that a moderator becomes necessary. -----signature----- Although the singer is silent, There is still the truth of the song. http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28747916/p1/ Sailing little Boats - with GoldenJedi Anywhere is possible.
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
ophelia Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/22/05 9:11pm Subject: RE: Communication - Date Edited: 6/22/05 9:15pm (1 edits total) Edited By: ophelia
	I've posted this before, in both FG1 and on the Resource forum, but it remains pretty much what I have to say on the subject of maintaining communication in difficult circumstances: Go to the people who are angriest with you, and talk to them. Go in with your hands open but your mental shields high, because at first they'll want to fling a lot of crap at you. Do not get defensive and do not try to "explain" your actions, unless there's some really key piece of information the other person missed (i.e., "I wasn't talking to you; I was talking to the guy next to you." Validate the other person's perceptions that you've done something wrong, even if you really don't think you have. Unless the other person is truly crazy, they presumably have some reason to feel the way they're feeling. Even if their unhappiness isn't your fault, you can reduce anger and defensiveness on their part by treating them as if they're sane and that their perceptions have merit. "Wow, I'm sorry that made you feel like that. I was actually thinking this, and not what you 'heard' at all. I can see how you'd think that way, though. How do you think we could avoid miscommunications like that in the future?" Take responsibility for any real mistakes you might have made. Do not insist that the other person "confess" to their own mistakes--if they do, that's great. If they don't, then they're obviously not ready to talk to you about them in a constructive way, so just let it go. Maybe a dialogue with more "two-way" communication will occur later. Emphasize any points of agreement you may have: "You're totally right about that. I'm glad to hear your insights on . . ." You'll know the tactic is working if they write you back and their screaming level has dropped by about 100 decibels. They may still be complaining (in fact, they may always complain), but you are succeeding in developing a working relationship with that person. What you're "working" on is forming enough of a person-to-person connection that they will at least recognize you as a human being and not a member of the hit squad, and getting them used to your style of communication, so when you say, "The sky is blue," they don't shriek back, "WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT?!!" This kind of dialogue can be very hard to establish, and some people find it easier than others, but in my experience, it's the only thing that will reliably and sustainably stop a social problem. That really boils down to a semi-itemized list of what's involved in "keeping an attitude of openness." IMO, that's really 95% of how communication works right there. The other 5% consists of things like making sure opportunities to communicate are available, and verbal "tricks" like referring only to yourself and not the other person (i.e., "It seems to me that this argument isn't going anywhere," vs. "Your argument isn't going anywhere"). No other "brilliant" ideas on communication are coming to mind, but I'll watch this thread for others' thoughts. Edit: When I posted this earlier, there was some concern about what I meant by "explain" in the beginning section. I meant don't start in with a lot of "But, but, buts" when someone else tells you what's bothering them. Leaping into explanations before the other person has asked for any tends to create the impression that you're not listening to them, and are basically saying, "You have no right to complain, and here's why." If someone asks you for an explanation, give one by all means. -----signature----- Oh, but anyway, Toto, we're home!
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 6/23/05 1:21am Subject: RE: Communication
	[Quick nod to what I suggested here...] -TMcE -----signature----- A/T = OTP "To write one Solo twin as an angstbunny, Master Skywalker, might be considered unfortunate. To write BOTH that way looks like carelessness."
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DarthBreezy Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/23/05 6:56am Subject: RE: Communication - Date Edited: 6/23/05 7:16am (1 edits total) Edited By: DarthBreezy
	I like reading the boards to see what other people are saying, just in case I don't hear something via PM and found the following post which I want to share. (Thank you Obana for letting me!) I think it's an excellent observation, and agree wholeheartedly. obaona Registered: Jun '02 Date Posted: 6/22 10:17pm Subject: RE: Where Have They Gone? Communication - the fanfic forums have run fine for years without a Senate or an advisory council. (Plus, the AC didn't do so well, from what I recall, and was dissolved for that reason.) I don't think one is necessary. A thread in the WR would do, is my honest opinion. The continuing problems we're having aren't because they are widespread and numerous - it's because questions never get answered. Are still not, from what of seen of FG2, despite the persistence of it's members. The PM quote thing. Flaming. It could be resolved in a few sentences with a 'that was wrong and this is why' or 'that was not wrong and this is why'. Instead we have 'move on, I'm getting tired of this' and 'I don't have to explain myself'. Forgive me, but I'm only getting more skeptical of the admins ability to 'help'. It appears that as they have been absent the past several months when this issue first began through PM's, they are avoiding the hot subjects now. (KK has ... posted; Sapient is apparently only able to make 25 posts a day elsewhere.) Edit For those who don't know, Ob's and I go WAYYYYYYYY back. If one said black, the other would almost inevidiably say white - we've disagreed on almost everything, but this just goes to show that even the head-butters can work together for the betterment of our boards... -----signature----- Although the singer is silent, There is still the truth of the song. http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28747916/p1/ Sailing little Boats - with GoldenJedi Anywhere is possible.
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DarthSapient Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 6/23/05 10:28am Subject: RE: Communication
	As far as communication, I don't go around PM'ing every user in the former spoiler/current RotS Forum. I just post as a regular user and try to come across as one who can help out when there's a problem. If mods can think of themselves less as mods and users think of mods as a regular user who can lock threads and not focus so much of their attention on the mod, things work well. I think realistic expectations on both sides of the table are what's needed.
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
TKeira_Lea Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 6/23/05 4:53pm Subject: RE: Communication
	Sape: First I would like to thank you for taking time to participate in our Focus Group. I think we would all like to move forward to the drama free boards fanfic wants to be. With that said, you've posted some things across the boards today that I think need clarifying. And I think that they are best mentioned under the heading of Communication because some where it has broken down... Date Posted: 12:45pm Subject: RE: Where Have They Gone? - Date Edited: 12:46pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DarthSapient I reply to all the PM's I receive. Not entirely true. My third PM concerning the PM quoting incident sent to you on 5/5 1:18PM and opened by you 1:19 PM was never answered. In that PM I expressed that I was very troubled by the lack of response on the issue. Considering that Dana has since apologized there must have been an offense, yet you showed no interest in pursuing the matter. I think I was well within my rights to send the three PMs I did. One to lodge the initial complaint, one to clarify a point based on your reply and one to follow up when nothing had been done by a couple days later. At the least that post should have been edited immediately even if you chose to do nothing more. If you guys have trouble with a mod, you talked to them and can't get a reply or answer, come to me. Few have. I've replied to all. I did come to you. Your initial response was that you’d look into the matter. Now you talk like you don’t even know what the incident in question is? Most things are misunderstandings and not all that complicated. Apparently this was not an misunderstanding. Dana has since apologized and edited the post, after weeks and at the behest of the users under her, not you. And though you plenty will deny it or that they don't do it, they thrive and strive in the drama and make things seem worse than they are. How honestly can you make the quoting of PM worse than it seems? It is what it is… I'm not saying that is the case here. But every forum's had it, it exists, and it's my job to be as unbiased as I can for you to weed through what's real and what's emotion and what's drama. Apparently the PM incident was drama but it was also real. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. In fact isn’t that what your job is about? Dealing with drama. Date Posted: 1:11pm Subject: RE: Where Have They Gone? So are you saying she posted the contents of a PM in a thread and that content was something you believe the intent was to remain private by the person who sent it? You received three PMs from me alone on the issue and more from other users. 5/2 8:20PM Private Message to DarthSapient from TKeira_Lea (immediately following the PM quoting in question) 5/3 9:06AM Private Message to DarthSapient from TKeira_Lea (to clarify a point in response to Sape’s reply) 5/5 1:18PM Private Message to DarthSapient from TKeira_Lea (no response) Yet you now act like you haven’t a clue what anyone is talking about. I think if there is one thing people will agree upon is that I am usually pretty clear in my writing. And for the record, only the third PM was a tome or long winded diatribe. The first two were short enough (under a page) so that the point was not lost. Date Posted: 1:14pm Subject: RE: Where Have They Gone? No, I haven't been reading what's been said for months because it hsan't been elevated to me and you guys have four mods dedicated to a typically quiet, self-run forum. The issue of the PM quoting was elevated to you. Without a doubt. By multiple users. And in your open letter to the fanfic community last month you in fact admitted that your inbox was being loaded by PMs about Dana. Yet you act like this is a surprise, and at the same time post in the FG that you want to know what it is that Dana has done to get users this riled? Apparently you read none of those PMs. You should self-govern. In theory. Yet are you not there to make sure the mods themselves aren’t breaking the rules? Date Posted: 1:27pm Subject: RE: Where Have They Gone? Let me look more into the PM issue. If it was violated there has always been a reprimand. Now it's always per the specific case, content, what was said, etc... I've warned and banned mods before. I have no problem with that. This would also be a first offense in the mod's notes. If any of you did this, you wouldn't be banned for life from the boards but you'd most certainly be let known what you did was against the rules and you'll be gone next time. Those rules apply to anyone with a username. I am utterly shocked by your apparent lack of recall on this issue. You act as if this is the first you heard of this. Is it? You say your PM box is always open. Do you actually read them? You received three PMs from me alone on the issue but all of a sudden it’s news to you? This is how your series of statements today read to me – Please send us PMs. We may or may not read them. We may or may not do anything about them. All of a sudden your assurance that user PMs are welcome rings hollow. Not until a lot of users finally say, Wait a minute!, do you choose to look into the incident. If you had looked into the incident much of this drama would never have happened. Beyond the PM quoting incident there is clear evidence that Dana has violated the TOS multiple times. Apparently you’re still unclear on those as well as evident in your post today in the focus group -- Date Posted: 10:16am Subject: RE: Moderator Accountability In what way have members lost faith in a moderator? Is it based on threads not locked that users believed should have been? Or is it the opposite where threads that were locked sshould've been left open? That'll always exist. Is it opinions in threads that seem opposite to mainstream opinion? In my opinion, a moderator needs to be present nearly every day. A moderator does not have to be the most active poster on their borads, nor do they need to post in every thread. They should be approachable and one who listens. What specifically is Dana doing that makes users feel they lost confidence? How can we make you understand our points as posed in numerous PMs and in verbous statements about the events over the last six months? You can say that people will disagree, but I'd ask that you look at the links at the very least and judge for yourself. Or since you are apparently adverse to reading anything resembling War and Peace should we prepare the Reader’s Digest version? The simple truth is that your posts today show an utter disregard for those who have communicated with you over a period of time. I know you don't want to be troubled by our silly troubles but you are the Head Admin of all the boards. Our concerns and PMs are no less valid than others. -----signature----- http://www.lominalecantina.com character often lies in contradiction ~ jfostrander01 Wingman - a post LotF fic http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28548970/p1/?219
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jesina_Dreis Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 6/23/05 9:50pm Subject: RE: Communication
	How honestly can you make the quoting of PM worse than it seems? It is what it is… Very simply, actually - by misconstruing the intent in doing so. There are a multitude of ways in which her posting that quote could be taken. You all have chosen to view it in one manner. I won't say whether your way of viewing it is right or wrong, but if it was just an honest mistake, then suggesting it as intentional is making it worse than it seems. -----signature----- Stay safe, Ev Big sister to valin_halcyon Rest in Peace, Jeremy http://www.heatherjanes.com http://z9.invisionfree.com/downtime
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
YodaKenobi Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 6/23/05 10:17pm Subject: RE: Communication
	Very simply, actually - by misconstruing the intent in doing so. There are a multitude of ways in which her posting that quote could be taken. You all have chosen to view it in one manner. I won't say whether your way of viewing it is right or wrong, but if it was just an honest mistake, then suggesting it as intentional is making it worse than it seems. We're not suggesting it was intentional. Dana said it was. Here's a quote from her on the 30th of May: "Have you stopped to consider that the reason I even had the PM in the first place was that TKL herself sent it to me? Perhaps it was not the wisest choice, I will admit, but I still stand by it. " Dana's own words. There was no mention of it being an accident on that day either. -----signature----- FADA Therapist The Lands of the Dead: http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28522077/p1/ Blood Trail: http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28636429/p1 "We're Jedi, not assassins."— Anakin Solo
	~~Locked Topic~~ \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 - ~~Previous~~ | Next | Reload

[TheForce.Net] Jedi Council Forums » Inactive Forums: Jedi Council » Focus Group: Fan Fiction v2.0 » Communication