| Author |
Topic:
Fan Fiction's Future
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DarthBreezy
Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 5:30pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
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Mistress_Renata posted:
But even Leona & LadyP have been criticized for not being visible enough.
So there is a distinction to be made.
Yep, [Auto-type engaged] I FREELY ADMIT BEING ONE OF THE HARSHEST CRITICS BUT AM SO HAPPY TO SEE THE GREAT STRIDES THEY HAVE MADE OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS IN BECOMEING BOTH MORE VISIBLE AND YET MORE ACCESIBLE.[/autotype]
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Although the singer is silent, There is still the truth of the song. http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28747916/p1/ Sailing little Boats - with GoldenJedi Anywhere is possible.
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Mistress_Renata
Title:
Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 5:40pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
- Date Edited:
6/28/05 5:43pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Mistress_Renata
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But that's part of the problem, Breezy!  If you say "We need mods to be more active and more hands on," then turn around and criticize them for being too much like mods and "waving the mod stick", then what are they supposed to do? I know there were times I'd look at my computer and say "What the blazes do you people want from me, anyway?!" (Well, okay, I actually said a few stronger things, but that's the gist...  )
And there also needs to be a question of... not just accountability, but it can go too far in the other direction. The users need to respect the mods, not just because the mods do what they want. If they feel they can bully the mods into bending to their desires, then what is the point of moderation in the first place? Kit was once told by a user that she couldn't ban that person because they were friends with one of the other mods, even though that person's behavior was clearly out of line. It's a mutual respect that is needed.
Communication skills and diplomacy are critical attributes in a moderator... but so is backbone. A mod who's not willing to say "no" is not going to be very effective.
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"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the Guardians of peace and justice
in the Old Republic. Before the dark times."
Denizen of the Crotchety Old Mods' Home... approach with caution...
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DarthBreezy
Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 5:48pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
- Date Edited:
6/28/05 5:49pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthBreezy
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Mistress_Renata posted:
The users need to respect the mods, not just because the mods do what they want. If they feel they can bully the mods into bending to their desires, then what is the point of moderation in the first place?
Bully the mods? Lets get real here. You can disagree with a mod or their decision -even vehlmently, but ultimately a user CAN'T 'bully a mod'... such behavior could be construde as flaming and a clear viloation of the TOS as we all know.
And respect is earned, CAN Be earned, see my autotype message in green above...
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Although the singer is silent, There is still the truth of the song. http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28747916/p1/ Sailing little Boats - with GoldenJedi Anywhere is possible.
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obi_ew
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 5:49pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
- Date Edited:
6/28/05 5:57pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
obi_ew
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If you say "We need mods to be more active and more hands on," then turn around and criticize them for being too much like mods and "waving the mod stick", then what are they supposed to do? I know there were times I'd look at my computer and say "What the blazes do you people want from me, anyway?!" (Well, okay, I actually said a few stronger things, but that's the gist... )
There will be times when a mod will have to be tough, but for the most part I think those times will be rare and mostly involve trouble users. The problem I think we've run into recently is that even the majority of users, the well behaved, were being treated like rabble rousers. Active also to me doesn't mean LP and Leona have to read my stories, but they should be active members on the boards. I don't want to have to turn to someone I see as aloof and standoffish.
And there also needs to be a question of... not just accountability, but it can go too far in the other direction. The users need to respect the mods, not just because the mods do what they want. If they feel they can bully the mods into bending to their desires, then what is the point of moderation in the first place?
LP and Leona can address this better than me, but I seriously doubt they, or Sapient would just roll over and allow the users to ride roughshed over them. I also resent the implication that we've somehow bullied anyone. It's been stated over and over that people respect these two now, more than ever before, and it's not because they are giving us what we want.
I feel like we're suddenly sliding backwards again.
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In Loving Memory Of CC  Price of Courage- Obi/Whie/Luke- http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/20124958/?37 Updated 4/20 Finally!!
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DarthBreezy
Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 5:51pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
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obi_ew posted:
I feel like we're going suddenly sliding backwards again.
Lordy Lordy Lordy...
Seconded... 
-----signature-----
Although the singer is silent, There is still the truth of the song. http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28747916/p1/ Sailing little Boats - with GoldenJedi Anywhere is possible.
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TKeira_Lea
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 7:07pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
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Mistress_Renata posted:
But that's part of the problem, Breezy! If you say "We need mods to be more active and more hands on," then turn around and criticize them for being too much like mods and "waving the mod stick", then what are they supposed to do? I know there were times I'd look at my computer and say "What the blazes do you people want from me, anyway?!" (Well, okay, I actually said a few stronger things, but that's the gist... )
Well "active and hands on" and "waving the mod stick" can be mutually exclusive. It's not an easy balance to strike but it's possible. In the past we have seen mods participating rarely (and by participating I mean being a USER). People in BYTS didn't know Leona. Many users outside LP's story threads didn't know her. Unless a user came to Resource they had no idea who Herman was. And BfTS and Saga users might not have known Dana.
Now I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. I rarely saw Kit and Amsie, but when they did appear it was generally with an explanation and evenhanded decision. Users trusted their decisions. When people saw Saga going a bit askew, odd things happening in other threads, trust failed. That alone I feel was why people wanted to see more of their mods. Maybe they were not crazy about the mod they saw, but maybe they had no experience with the others. It's the reason I think we try to have a general dispersal of mods, one known in each of the 4 boards. It's up to the mods to be visible enough so that people see they are reasonable and trustworthy. For some, that may be less work, for others that may be more.
No matter, I think a mod must be active to understand the vibe of the boards.
Being "active" however has nothing to do with the mod stick or the waving thereof. In fact, the "waving of modsticks" or shaking or rattling in random threads seemed to be what set the wheels in motion to form a rift between the mods and the users.
From what most people saw BEING AN INACTIVE MOD + WAVING MODSTICK WITHOUT CLEAR EXPLANATION = BAD TIMES IN FANFICDOM
MistressRenata posted:
And there also needs to be a question of... not just accountability, but it can go too far in the other direction. The users need to respect the mods, not just because the mods do what they want. If they feel they can bully the mods into bending to their desires, then what is the point of moderation in the first place? Kit was once told by a user that she couldn't ban that person because they were friends with one of the other mods, even though that person's behavior was clearly out of line. It's a mutual respect that is needed.
I will reiterate this point. Every mod starts out with respect, as should every user. When a mod shows no respect to users by refusing to explain a threat to lock a whole thread or changes policy then it niggles away at the trust and respect automatically bestowed by the users in the mod.
As for your allegation of bullying, do you really think that can happen? Who's got the ban button? I've seen that word tossed around before, I don't think it benefits the conversation now.
MistressRenata posted:
Communication skills and diplomacy are critical attributes in a moderator... but so is backbone. A mod who's not willing to say "no" is not going to be very effective.
I agree. Backbone is essential. As are compassion, clarity of speech, forthrightness and commitment to lead by example. And on ocassion tough love.
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Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 7:30pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
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As for your allegation of bullying, do you really think that can happen? Who's got the ban button? I've seen that word tossed around before, I don't think it benefits the conversation now.
Actually, it can and does happen.
For example, I remember one user who got into a sqabble with my brother in the Senate and who really crossed the line with some of his comments. When I had to take action against that user for flaming my brother, he started trying to raise a fuss by accusing me of bias in favor of my brother (never mind that I've banned himi multiple times). Sometimes, when that sort of thing happens, some mods just don't want to have to deal with the DRAMA! and other crap, and that leads to them tolerating a lot more in behavior from the bullying users.
It shouldn't happen, but it does.
Of course, I usually just ban them anyways, and if they start to bug me I drink a bottle or two of Pepto Bysmal. 
Kimball Kinnison
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You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
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TKeira_Lea
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 8:06pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
- Date Edited:
6/28/05 8:09pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
TKeira_Lea
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Okay maybe it's the writer in me but...
Bully - an aggressive person who intimidates or mistreats weaker people.
(Encarta Dictionary North America)
By the definition it implies the bully is more powerful than the person being mistreated. I won't argue that you were "mistreated" or "intimidated", but if the mod has the ban button he/she isn't the weaker party in the exchange. By your own admission you can ban them anyways, right?
When someone claims that someone is a bully then it implies that they are using their power to hurt others. It's one thing to be accused of entering into a fair fight, another entirely to imply that the fight wasn't fair to begin with. That's why I think "bully" was a poor choice of words. Use "harrass" or "mistreat" or something more appropriate.
edit: forgot a )
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Healer_Leona
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 8:41pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
- Date Edited:
6/28/05 8:49pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Healer_Leona
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o-e posted:
LP and Leona can address this better than me, but I seriously doubt they, or Sapient would just roll over and allow the users to ride roughshed over them. I also resent the implication that we've somehow bullied anyone. It's been stated over and over that people respect these two now, more than ever before, and it's not because they are giving us what we want.
No matter what it may look like to anyone, I have not felt bullied into anything. Quite honestly all the drama that has gone on in the last few months has made me a much stronger individual. I have learned to give my opinion no matter if it disagrees with user or mod. If I feel it's right, I stick to my guns.
Don't let my hesitant nature in not wanting to offend, mislead or cause hurt to someone, or my willingness to compromise be mistaken for weakness.
While I agree in general with
Communication skills and diplomacy are critical attributes in a moderator... but so is backbone. A mod who's not willing to say "no" is not going to be very effective
let's not forget that that opposite, a mod who cannot admit mistakes and/or lacks the ability to apologize and compromise is worse than ineffective, a mod like that is detrimetal to the boards.
Edits: Typos
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LadyPadme
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 9:06pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
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I agree. I don't feel bullied either.
I think there's a difference between being bullied and being an adult enough to see when change is necessary.
A person who makes mistakes (i.e. ineffective modding) and is told about it and then considers this and changes because s/he agrees with that assessment is different from someone who is told s/he is wrong, disagrees, but lacks the backbone to speak out.
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YodaKenobi
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
6/28/05 11:32pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
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Leona: let's not forget that that opposite, a mod who cannot admit mistakes and/or lacks the ability to apologize and compromise is worse than ineffective, a mod like that is detrimetal to the boards.
And...
LP: A person who makes mistakes (i.e. ineffective modding) and is told about it and then considers this and changes because s/he agrees with that assessment is different from someone who is told s/he is wrong, disagrees, but lacks the backbone to speak out.
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DarthBreezy
Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/29/05 6:15am
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
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YodaKenobi posted:
[
Me too!
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Although the singer is silent, There is still the truth of the song. http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28747916/p1/ Sailing little Boats - with GoldenJedi Anywhere is possible.
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DarthSapient
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
6/29/05 9:44am
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
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I think there's a difference between being bullied and being an adult enough to see when change is necessary.
Yes, that's at the heart of it. There are some who view an edit, PM warning, or thread locking as a personal attack when it was completely warranted and justified. Does bullying occur? It does but I'd like to think it doesn't occur that much. When it does, it tends to stick out and we can even see it in the Mod Squad by the nature and types of posts being made. But if you ever feel bullied, tell us. That's definitely one complaint we'll keep an eye out for. I think when it can feel worse is if a mod is inactive and the only time you really see them is a drive-by log in, lock, ban, and log off move. That is also a form of bullying in my opinion.
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Mistress_Renata
Title:
Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
6/29/05 4:51pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
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Great, one clap of thunder and my lengthy response disappears.
I will only say to TKL and Breezy, YES, Mods can be bullied and have been bullied. And I use the term BULLIED, not just harassed. The fact that a mod HAS the ban button means that he or she must be very careful of when and how it is used. I let people say things to me that I would never let them say to another user, because I knew that if I (justifiably) banned them, they would spread the word to their "clique" that I was just being vindictive and unjust.
Obi-ew, I can only say that I have talked to many, many people whose viewpoint of what has happened is VERY different from yours, completely opposite, in fact.
And as the cable just went out and the lights are flickering, I'm off before my computer gets as fried as Herman's. No doubt this thread will be locked by tomorrow too...
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"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the Guardians of peace and justice
in the Old Republic. Before the dark times."
Denizen of the Crotchety Old Mods' Home... approach with caution...
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Jesina_Dreis
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
6/29/05 4:56pm
Subject:
RE: Fan Fiction's Future
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Well said, Renata.
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