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Topic:
Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
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PulsarSkate
Title: Ex-Mod
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:07pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
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In reference to any religion only social thread, I would have to ask a few things before even considering the idea:
1. Why is it necessary? Wouldn't this be segregating yourselves, rather than being accepted?
2. Which has already been pointed out, having a social thread for one religion means that others should be able to have one as well - so how do we rationalise the sudden surge in religious/faith threads to those who have other/nerdy social threads they want to start? I know faith does not hold the same ground as geekdom for people who believe, but it works the other way as well.
3. It would definitely mean more trolling/baiting but it would also mean that it would be pretty much cached in one area and easier to deal with from a moderating standpoint...but how would the people in the thread feel about that?
As it stands, personally, I don't care who starts what social thread where. If you feel the need to group 'your people' in one place, fine by me. But on a place like the YJCC, it can mean a whole different kind of banding together. It can be seen from outsiders as an outright declaration of war. Sure, it's internet war, but still.
As for hostility: I try to edit out any kind of hostility if I see it (though I sometimes struggle to see the difference between hostility and intensity) be it in regards to Christians or any belief. This also goes both ways.
Lame Mod Note: I think in this thread perhaps we should focus less on the actual arguments between faiths, religions etc and more on how we can fix the problem. There's no need to turn this thread into a general religion debate 
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Lord Jon, Mr Lank & Ms Luna, Purveyors of Anachronistic Atrocities
"Encore un moment, monsieur le bourreau, un petit moment!"
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Jabba-wocky
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:13pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
- Date Edited:
2/26 11:17pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabba-wocky
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harpuah posted:
This is a judgement I've seen from many many abstaining christians / abstaining non christians. Having sex before marriage does not equal promiscuity.. I've seen this so many times... it's either waiting until marriage, or a skank...
Suppose a person met somebody when they were sixteen, had sex with this person when they were seventeen, continued a completely monogamous relationship with this person for years, and married this person they were twenty eight. Is this person any less morally good than a person who abstained?
That, frankly, is irrelevant. Even if that belief is common (debatable) it's not fair of you to assume a Christian poster is calling people a skank unless they say/hint at as much. Just saying "I'm abstinent for religious reasons" isn't necessarily a comment on anyone else's life, anymore than a person who says "I have sex once a week" is trying to imply that people who don't are anti-social, awkward losers that will never have success with romance. In fact, sj makes this very point in the rest of her post. It's simply unfair to assume that stuff is being said that isn't really there.
And as to the answer to your question, is it possible people feel that way? I suppose. But Mods aren't mind police, neither should they try to be. Our only concern is what people actually say/do. So if they want to feel that people who have ever had a sexual experience outside of marriage are skanks, then, misguided as that is, they're welcome to it, so long as their only response in our hypothetical thread is to honestly share their experience, without taking shots at anyone else.
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ays Darius the king: 8 of my family (there were) who were formerly kings; I am the ninth (9); long aforetime we are kings.
All Hail His Excellency, Barack Obama
Roma vincit
Tearing Up a Lane (TERRIN UP A LAAAANE!!!)
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harpuah
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:13pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
- Date Edited:
2/26 11:15pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
harpuah
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PulsarSkate posted:
In reference to any religion only social thread, I would have to ask a few things before even considering the idea:
1. Why is it necessary? Wouldn't this be segregating yourselves, rather than being accepted?
2. Which has already been pointed out, having a social thread for one religion means that others should be able to have one as well - so how do we rationalise the sudden surge in religious/faith threads to those who have other/nerdy social threads they want to start? I know faith does not hold the same ground as geekdom for people who believe, but it works the other way as well.
3. It would definitely mean more trolling/baiting but it would also mean that it would be pretty much cached in one area and easier to deal with from a moderating standpoint...but how would the people in the thread feel about that?
As it stands, personally, I don't care who starts what social thread where. If you feel the need to group 'your people' in one place, fine by me. But on a place like the YJCC, it can mean a whole different kind of banding together. It can be seen from outsiders as an outright declaration of war. Sure, it's internet war, but still.
As for hostility: I try to edit out any kind of hostility if I see it (though I sometimes struggle to see the difference between hostility and intensity) be it in regards to Christians or any belief. This also goes both ways.
Well, you could argue that the geriatric ward thread segregates users by age, but that's just silly. 
And Jessie... please let her answer my questions.. we could potentially solve some issues / answer some questions without have to make any radical changes. We're all adults here.. I think we can engage in discussion without blood being shed.
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You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows...
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"The funny thing is, her posts are not modded because no mod wants to read them...."
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solojones
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:14pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
- Date Edited:
2/26 11:16pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
solojones
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Harps, I think you're focusing on a generic example I picked instead of my actual point, which wasn't about morality at all... I wasn't saying what you're suggesting I was about people having sex not taking it seriously, I just included the 'joking around' bit because, er, I thought everyone was agreed that people joke around a lot about sex and other things on this site?  I wasn't trying to make a moral commentary...
Really, you didn't address my issue at all... so I'm not sure what else I can say about it. The short and long of it is that I don't understand why, when everyone is sharing facts about themselves, Christians sharing facts about themselves has to be construed as derogatory. It seems like some people have a lot of negative experiences with Christians and automatically become extremely defensive when Christians just show up being themselves, with a kind of assumption that they're trying to judge everyone even when there's absolutely no evidence of that.
EDIT: as j-w pointed out, you kind of did exactly what I was pointing out...
-sj loves kevin spacey
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6 x 9 = 42 Proud member of the Colbert Nation  Obi-Wan Kenobi and Obi-Wan Kenobi in Ghost Ship Executor All Hail Cliegg's Blue Leg!
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PulsarSkate
Title: Ex-Mod
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:16pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
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Oh I didn't mean she couldn't answer, I just didn't want things to get bogged down Discuss away - I didn't mean to put a muzzle on, sorry dear
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Lord Jon, Mr Lank & Ms Luna, Purveyors of Anachronistic Atrocities
"Encore un moment, monsieur le bourreau, un petit moment!"
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harpuah
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:17pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
- Date Edited:
2/26 11:21pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
harpuah
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Well, you don't see people saying "I'm a buddhist and a virgin" or I'm a muslim and a virgin" as much.
But anyway...
I have to say, I see no harm in a christian social thread..
and Rachel.. your thoughts on my christian friend who happens to be a prostitute?
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You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows...
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"The funny thing is, her posts are not modded because no mod wants to read them...."
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solojones
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:19pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
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...and?
-sj loves kevin spacey
-----signature-----
6 x 9 = 42 Proud member of the Colbert Nation Obi-Wan Kenobi and Obi-Wan Kenobi in Ghost Ship Executor All Hail Cliegg's Blue Leg!
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MASTERPRENN
Title: JCC Man.
Forum Feud Winner
Reduced Time
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:20pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
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I think that your assumptions only proved SJ's point, Haprs. She was talking about how when Christians try to give answers that pertain to them, people think that they're condemning people who don't chose to live the same way they do, and you thought that she was condemning people instead of making a completely different point.
On that, I agree with SJ, though I'm not sure how we can make a change about it, without implementing new policies that will be detrimental to other parts of the community.
I think it's the same thing as the chat/clique stuff. Enforce the policies we have in place, and, as far as us as users go, don't buy into the hype through our actions and words, and do our best to encourage open, respectful dialog, about any subject that is of importance to other posters.
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God is a verb.
And your mom is a theory.
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harpuah
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:22pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
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solojones posted:
...and?
-sj loves kevin spacey
I edited..
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"The funny thing is, her posts are not modded because no mod wants to read them...."
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harpuah
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:24pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
- Date Edited:
2/26 11:25pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
harpuah
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I'll say more...
I believe that what we are doing here is trying to better the community. I don't think reform, or cracking down / stifling people is the answer.. so if the christian community want a place where they can discuss their faith without people questioning it (I have very rarely if never seen people say "christianity is stupid"), they should be given a place/
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"The funny thing is, her posts are not modded because no mod wants to read them...."
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Jabba-wocky
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:25pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
- Date Edited:
2/26 11:29pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabba-wocky
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You also don't see many Muslims or Buddhists, period.
More to the point, would you really feel better if it was broken up across three posts, like:
Poster 1: I'm a virgin
Poster 2: Why?
Poster 1: For religious reasons
I don't see how that's different. Further, in the similar thread in question we've got LeeKenobi explaining his choice of celibacy, JediOVerlord talking about how it relates to his autism and fear of commitment, IG33 about his temporary period focusing on music, etc. That's plenty of people giving their reasons for being a virgin, so it's not as if, as you implied, Christians are the only ones doing so.
EDIT: Re: A Social Thread I don't think it's the answer. We can always seclude ourselves and talk about our faith. There are such things as PMs and AIM, after all. What's more the question is whether someone can feel free to bring up how their faith influences their views, or share an experience they had related to their faith, and not fear that they are going to have their head bit off and be called ignorant, backwards, blamed for the Crusades, etc. Creating a "positive thread" for the religion is really sort of superfluous as I see it.
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ays Darius the king: 8 of my family (there were) who were formerly kings; I am the ninth (9); long aforetime we are kings.
All Hail His Excellency, Barack Obama
Roma vincit
Tearing Up a Lane (TERRIN UP A LAAAANE!!!)
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harpuah
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:31pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
- Date Edited:
2/26 11:32pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
harpuah
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Jabba-wocky posted:
That's plenty of people giving their reasons for being a virgin, so it's not as if, as you implied, Christians are the only ones doing so.
Wocky, you know I love you... and you know I always give you loving **** for completely missing the point. 
Here's a post I made last night...
harpuah posted:
Some people choose to wait for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with religion... and it isn't really fair to assume that anybody who questions this is a heathen.
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You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows...
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"The funny thing is, her posts are not modded because no mod wants to read them...."
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Jabba-wocky
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:37pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
- Date Edited:
2/26 11:38pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabba-wocky
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Harpuah posted:
Well, you don't see people saying "I'm a buddhist and a virgin" or I'm a muslim and a virgin" as much.
No, no, you misunderstood. Your earlier post (above) seems to imply two things:
1. Of all the people that are abstinent, only Christians feel the need to announce their reason for doing so.
2. The reason for #1 is that they are trying to implicitly pass judgment on everyone else
My post was geared towards showing #1 (and therefore #2) is not true, because pretty much every person that was abstinent explained what their reasoning was.
-----signature-----
ays Darius the king: 8 of my family (there were) who were formerly kings; I am the ninth (9); long aforetime we are kings.
All Hail His Excellency, Barack Obama
Roma vincit
Tearing Up a Lane (TERRIN UP A LAAAANE!!!)
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MASTERPRENN
Title: JCC Man.
Forum Feud Winner
Reduced Time
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:38pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
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I don't really like the idea of a Christian social thread as a "fix". I don't think it will help the problem at all.
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God is a verb.
And your mom is a theory.
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solojones
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
2/26 11:41pm
Subject:
RE: Is hostility to Christianity tolerated?
- Date Edited:
2/26 11:42pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
solojones
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Pointedly, harps, people had been saying they were abstaining for religion, which is why I brought it up. I was making an assumption I shouldn't have, but what I really meant to say was "well some people choose to wait because of religion, and I don't think dismissing those people as stupid is good." I apologize if that was a bit snippy.
Harps, your response there... sorry, exactly what I've been talking about here. Did I say "you guys are heathens" or anything remotely along those lines? Categorically, emphatically, inarguably no. I was bringing up the issue of tolerating religious opinion, not the morality of people's choices.
And yet there, as here, you jumped to a conclusion that was absolutely not supported by my statement. Why can you not address the actual issue I brought up? I specifically do not want this to become a moral debate. I'm not answering moral questions because they're irrelevant. What is relevant is people doing what you did there and here by drawing conclusions that simply aren't supported by what people actually say.
Let me put it this way. Saying that the presence of Christians with opinions on how they personally should live their lives is an attack on the way non-Christians live their lives is just as nonsensicle as saying gay people wanting to live out their personal relationships is an attack on heterosexuals. They're both absurd.
-sj loves kevin spacey
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