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Topic:
"Serious", Senate-like threads
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
• EUC
• JCC
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
3/1 2:52pm
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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Personally, I prefer serious threads in the JCC to those in the Senate because even if they're serious, they only go on for a day or two of discussion and then they sink and get forgotten. It keeps things interesting, but fresh as well.
I'm more annoyed at bad arguments than "poop" posts, anyway. The latter doesn't hurt anyone and can lighten the mood when it gets too serious.
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Roma Æterna|SPQR  Imperium Sine Fine "Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque" -Ennius, Annales "Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento;hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos" -Virgil, Aeneid
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ophelia
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
3/1 3:15pm
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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I will go on record as saying the same thing that sj and ASO said, only shorter. 
Also--Souderwan, I am in those threads. Usually arguing with you. How do you miss me? I glow orange. 
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
3/1 5:03pm
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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Now, now, Melissa. We only argue in about 20% of those serious threads (don't make me pull out the excel files. You know I will! ).
Seriously, though. I'm not saying you guys are absent, so please don't take it that way. I'm just saying that there have been several threads that I thought went downhill and I've noticed that those threads typically lacked a mod's presence, that's all.
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"When we hurt each other we should write it down in the sand,
so the winds of forgiveness can make it go away for good. When
we help each other we should chisel it in stone, lest we never
forget the love of a friend." ~Godefroy
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JediANGELA
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/1 5:42pm
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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Souderwan posted:
Now, now, Melissa. We only argue in about 20% of those serious threads (don't make me pull out the excel files. You know I will! ).
Seriously, though. I'm not saying you guys are absent, so please don't take it that way. I'm just saying that there have been several threads that I thought went downhill and I've noticed that those threads typically lacked a mod's presence, that's all.
QFT. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Most of those threads ended up with someone being hurt, and things being said that really shouldnt have been said.
Personally, I think that serious threads should be allowed, but only if theres a break in the tension. The lolcats sound good.
I really cant explain anything more, its hard to put into words.
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Memories are gained, memories are lost But those that we retain are with us for an eternity. Once things are gone, theyre gone forever. Never let the memories fade. The final year-Yankee Stadium 1923-2008 
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solojones
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
3/2 12:02am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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Melissa, I know you have been in many of the serious threads, lurking around and posting sometimes. I recognize that a lot of the mods don't like these threads, though... but as long as a couple of you can keep an eye on them...
-sj loves kevin spacey
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MASTERPRENN
Title: JCC Man.
Awesome
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
3/2 12:10am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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When I first started posting in the JCC, the serious threads were the only ones I would read. And, like Jello, I think I almost like the serious threads in the JCC more than the Senate. I just don't like when they degenerate into flame wars between two or three parties (which always seem to be the same). But really, I think that's more on the users to fix, not the mods. If we don't feed into that crap, it won't happen as much.
Really, though, the important question is whether we are going to allow serious threads in the Pancakes and Waffles forum. I don't know if we can expect people to speak about such personal and important subjects without getting angry when somebody disagrees with them.
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"When you see me, what do you see?
I see a big bushy beard and hair."
- Stephen Colbert discussing his inabilit to "see" race, with Cornel West
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Grand_Admiral_Grant
Title: Ex-Mod
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
3/2 6:20am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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Do you guys have the feeling that participants in serious discussions get away more easily with small flames or hidden attempts at sniping?
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
3/2 6:31am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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And, like Jello, I think I almost like the serious threads in the JCC more than the Senate.
I've been reading through some of them lately, and I can say with some experience that the JCC serious threads often are having a higher quality level of discussion than the comparable Senate threads (e.g. the primary thread in the JCC). I say this as someone who loves the Senate.
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Malthusian Doomsday Quack
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ApolloSmileGirl
Registered:
Jun '04
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Date Posted:
3/2 6:36am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
- Date Edited:
3/2 6:36am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ApolloSmileGirl
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Grand_Admiral_Grant posted:
Do you guys have the feeling that participants in serious discussions get away more easily with small flames or hidden attempts at sniping?
I sure don't. At least when it comes to the more serious senate like issues. The environment in the JCC is way more laid back than in the Senate. A humorous post here or there in one of those threads keeps it a lot more lighthearted instead of it turning into a flamefest. You'll probably notice that the users that tend to get all uppity in the JCC serious threads seem to be a handful of the same people, and ones that in most cases frequent the Senate and expect the JCC to have the same moderation practices as the Senate.
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Grand_Admiral_Grant
Title: Ex-Mod
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
3/2 7:29am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
- Date Edited:
3/2 7:30am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Grand_Admiral_Grant
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I was referring to these handful of the same people who really get into the argument. And tend to get close to flaming each other in the heat of that argument. 
Would starting to apply the Senate zero tolerance policy in these serious discussions be an option? Or would it be better to leave things as they are right now, except that we moderators perhaps should show a bit more presence in these threads?
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JediANGELA
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/2 7:51am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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Grand_Admiral_Grant posted:
I was referring to these handful of the same people who really get into the argument. And tend to get close to flaming each other in the heat of that argument.
Would starting to apply the Senate zero tolerance policy in these serious discussions be an option? Or would it be better to leave things as they are right now, except that we moderators perhaps should show a bit more presence in these threads?
I have mixed feelings on that. The Senate zero tolerance policy belongs to the Senate. If it is applied here to the JCC, then I feel that it should be applied board-wide, potentially creating more of a problem than should really be. Leaving it the way things are just seems to be in the gray area. I mean as I said before the mods cant be omnipresent, and therefore could miss alot of what is going on in the thread. It is also sometimes difficult to determine which threads can turn serious and which threads can turn to be humorous. I think it should be done on a case by case basis.
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Memories are gained, memories are lost But those that we retain are with us for an eternity. Once things are gone, theyre gone forever. Never let the memories fade. The final year-Yankee Stadium 1923-2008
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Grand_Admiral_Grant
Title: Ex-Mod
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
3/2 8:20am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
- Date Edited:
3/2 8:20am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Grand_Admiral_Grant
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Personally, I would agree with you, a zero tolerance policy in the JCC would fail. Big time. It'll hurt the JCC more than it would do it good.
But I also have noticed that the more serious a discussion gets, the more flaming and sniping will occur in that thread.
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JediANGELA
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/2 8:45am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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I have noticed that as well. Maybe the best solution would just be locking those topics if they get like that. That way no one can contribute or rebute the flaming or sniping. Although it would be punishing the whole for the fault of the one or two, it would perhaps make them think twice before doing it again.
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Memories are gained, memories are lost But those that we retain are with us for an eternity. Once things are gone, theyre gone forever. Never let the memories fade. The final year-Yankee Stadium 1923-2008
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
3/2 8:57am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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Honestly, I think you just need to *****-slap those few posters once or twice--publicly. Those guys tend to feel entirely too much self-importance (I'm guilty of this sometimes myself, honestly) and a public smackdown to remind them that they are no different than other users would do them (and the rest of the community) a lot of good. I'm not talking about banning, necessarily. Just a "Dude. It's the internet. If you can't play nice, go outside and meet some people and work on those social skills you seem to be lacking. Otherwise, I'm gonna take away your ball."
-----signature-----
"When we hurt each other we should write it down in the sand,
so the winds of forgiveness can make it go away for good. When
we help each other we should chisel it in stone, lest we never
forget the love of a friend." ~Godefroy
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ophelia
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
3/2 9:42am
Subject:
RE: "Serious", Senate-like threads
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I'll echo what some others have said about the flaming problem mostly being confined to a few individuals. To the extent that we have a "real" problem here, I think it's due to the fact that 2 or 3 of these posters can completely drive everyone else out of a thread, either with flames or with a deluge of huge posts aimed only at one another, or both. With that crowd, I suggest that moderators "take them ship to ship," as Sape used to say. Basically that means taking the edit, warn, ban route with those particular users, while leaving the thread and the other users alone.
That said, I want to say that I really appreciate the way that less . . . uh, "intense" JCC posters often head off train-wrecks in these threads by coming in and posting everything from "poop, lol" to very subtle distractions. Putting a kind of firebreak of "whatever" around some over-focused users often gets them to move on until they're calm enough to re-enter the give-and-take of typical conversation.
The power of a quiet, "Um, I don't think so" from the general community carries a lot more weight than the bold warning type of any mod. Thanks, guys, for helping to keep the JCC usable for all of us.
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