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Author	Topic: First Impression of SW:TCG
The2ndQuest Title: Manager: -Literature -LACWAC -Games Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 4/12/02 8:05am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	I should point out that, despite the player's deck or ability, there is a certain amount of luck in SW:CCG- you can end up with a bad hand for the first several turns meanwhile your opponent starts to builds a tough defensive or offensive force. I played a game against a new player who had a DS2 LS starter deck- he managed to bottle up the systems with B-Wings and such while General Solo and some of his scouts managed to tear through my AT-ST's and such-only one site managed to get out that game, and so I ended up drawing a few zero-destinies at inappropriate times because of that. So there are some random factors in there that your experiment may have fallen into. We now return you to your regularly scheduled review discussion... -----signature----- "When your future self tells you to do something, YOU DO IT." K'Kruhk, 140 ABY:"Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker? Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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Ocelot_X Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 4/12/02 9:36am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG - Date Edited: 4/12/02 10:47am (1 edits total) Edited By: Ocelot_X
	Kenix: I don't understand what you meant when you said the #2 player said he didn't have a chance to go through the cards before the game and count them. BEFORE the game doesn't matter. You have to shuffle your deck and let your opponent cut it befor eyou start, and you can't look at the deck again after that. To track a destiny, you have to find it first. If you never draw them or get them for destiny by chance, you'll never know where they are and cannot track them. When I was learning to track, I played against myself with the DS2 starters, and I was lucky enough to get an Intruder Missile for my first LS battle destiny. For the rest of the game, I never drew a different card for battle destiny, but until I had found it through luck, AFTER THE GAME HAD STARTED, I had no idea where it was. And if ever I searched my Reserve Deck or had it shuffled for whatever reason with the Missile in there (or just made a counting mistake), I would have lost it. Finding the destiny is luck. Keeping track of it is skill. None of that is cheating. Now, if this guy looked through his deck before the game to know where cards were, and started playing WITHOUT shuffling, so he started the game knowing where everything in his deck was, then I'll wholeheartedly agree with you that that IS cheating, and cheating pretty badly too. But it isn't tracking destiny. -----signature----- Those blind with rage are by destiny ensnared.
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Masterlucas Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 4/12/02 11:44am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	Your exactly right Ocelot, that was the other part of the experiment that did not make sense to me. Tracking cannot begin before the game begins, decks must be shuffled or your are right its big-time cheating. -----signature----- *"Sir MasterLameass" of the Knights of The 3SA Sarcasm Table* May the Force Be With You So Say We All X-Box 360 Gamerscore: 2155 Now Playing RE4, GRAW and Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
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Wurms Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 4/12/02 6:45pm Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	About stacking: Stacking has its advantages in the initial setup phase. Lets say you have 5 points left during your setup phase and you're holding Anakin A and Anakin D. Place Anakin D (4 points) on top and Anakin A underneath (only 1 point since its underneath). Then in the build phase you can bring Anakin A to the top for only 3 points. If Anakin A wasn't stacked underneath during the setup phase he would have cost you 4 points (3 for the difference + 1 for cost) to place on top of Anakin D. So you save 1 build point which could mean the difference between bringing an extra unit to the battlefield. Another thing I like about stacking is that its a good way to get rid of "doubles" but also make a unit stronger. Since you can't have two of the same unique character on the table at once this will give more strategy towards deck building. Is it better to place "4 of Anakin A's" in your deck (better chance of getting it) or "2 Anakin A's and 2 Anakin B's"? Because, what happens when you have an Anakin A in play and you keep drawing more Anakin A's? I would rather be getting some Anakin B's or even C's and stack them under Anakin A. Also stacking is important when the characters get contested. The stacked cards count towards the outcome and if it is a powerful neutral character then your going to want him instead of your opponent. Balancing: But about the Padawan Deflection card being only for the light side. You have to remember that the Dark Side always wins ties, so the Light Side needs some other benefits as well. MISC I wish build points would carry over also. But if you have extra build points place them on any card being built. You can deploy anytime you wish and can place as many build points on a card as you want. If a card only cost 4, place 9 and make your opponent sweat a little thinking your gonna be bringing Yoda to the table He might retreat an injured character, then he will be pissed when its actually just Anakin D. I never thought about the trouble of mission and battle cards being sideways. That can be quite an annoyance. I think this game has some good potential and I am sure there are gonna be some rule changes in the future expansions. -----signature----- "The dirt is strong with this one."
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Artie-Deco Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 4/14/02 9:34pm Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	Lets say you have 5 points left during your setup phase and you're holding Anakin A and Anakin D. Problem #1: Unless I didn't draw Anakin A until late in the Setup phase, I wouldn't let this happen. Place Anakin D (4 points) on top and Anakin A underneath (only 1 point since its underneath). Then in the build phase you can bring Anakin A to the top for only 3 points. If Anakin A wasn't stacked underneath during the setup phase he would have cost you 4 points (3 for the difference + 1 for cost) to place on top of Anakin D. So you save 1 build point which could mean the difference between bringing an extra unit to the battlefield. Problem #2: If Anakin A wasn't stacked underneath during the setup phase you would have spent your last build point to partially build another unit somewhere else, which would have made up for the difference you cite. You don't "save 1 build point". Is it better to place "4 of Anakin A's" in your deck (better chance of getting it) or "2 Anakin A's and 2 Anakin B's"? Actually, the best scenario is none of the above: it would be 4 Anakin A's and 4 Anakin B's -- if your deck strategy depends on Anakin, that is. The one thing you do NOT want to depend on is getting Anakin A AND Anakin B at the same time. Also stacking is important when the characters get contested. No, stacking may be a factor, but it won't be an "important" factor when contesting unique units. The most important factor when contesting unique units is your current Force total. The second most important factor is your unit's build cost. A distant third is the number of cards stacked under it. You have to remember that the Dark Side always wins ties, so the Light Side needs some other benefits as well. The Light Side has one of the biggest advantages in the game by going second in the build step and retreat step. The advantage is Light Side knows exactly what Dark Side is doing, and can react (if possible). Let's say both sides are fairly even in the ground arena. Dark Side builds a ground unit; Light Side can choose to either build a ground unit to keep the balance, or retreat his ground units and spend his build points somewhere else. Dark Side does not have this luxury. Dark Side has no idea where Light Side is going to build this turn, or where Light Side is going to retreat this turn. He's shooting in the dark. In the games I've played so far, Light has a HUGE advantage. If a card only cost 4, place 9 and make your opponent sweat a little thinking your gonna be bringing Yoda to the table. He might retreat an injured character, then he will be [mad] when its actually just Anakin D. That would be a foolish thing to do, wasting 5 build points like that. Build points are more precious than anything in this game. Besides, your opponent has no clue that that bluff is a character unit; it could be a space or ground unit, so there's really no point in retreating a character unit. And further more, Dark doesn't have to retreat until AFTER Light builds their units, so if that unit stays face down in the build area why retreat? -----signature----- Those who seek the LORD lack no good thing. -- Psalm 34:10
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Ironflak Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 4/15/02 2:22am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	Padawan's Deflection is a Neutral card, not a Light Side card. I have the card and spotted the Neutral symbol on it. Ironflak -----signature----- Ironflak
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Masterlucas Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 4/22/02 9:03am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	I finally scored a 2 player starter and got a chance to check this new game out. I want to start off by saying that I'm one of the few people on this board who loves CCG and is also excited about TCG, with regards to the disputes that have popped up lately, I'd suggest that although everyone is entitled to their opinion, if a comment or thread is going to be imflammatory to one side or anther its probably best left unsaid. With regards to the game, my first impressions is that of a game that is ultimately fun and uncomplicated. More involved and interesting than Young Jedi and about on par with Jedi Knights in many ways. If you don't like dice you won't like this game, dice is a key ingrediant and must be dealt with if you are going to enjoy your gaming experience with TCG. I'm looking forward to getting some of the rares and playing with complete 60 card decks to get the full experience intended with this game. I feel the cards are nicely constructed, I don't feel a need to break things down to details, Artie already did a great job of deconstructing this game, I did not have any of the issues with the game that he did as of yet. I found the game fun, fast paced and easy to play and would recommend it as a welcome addition to the previous SW card games out there, it in no way replaces SWCCG and should not be considered as such. -----signature----- *"Sir MasterLameass" of the Knights of The 3SA Sarcasm Table* May the Force Be With You So Say We All X-Box 360 Gamerscore: 2155 Now Playing RE4, GRAW and Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
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BigPoppaJabba Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 5/2/02 1:29am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	The weirdest thing happened to me the other day. I was grumbling about being home mulching the gardens while my wife was out shopping. When she got home, she said "come and look at this" "There was 15% of everything at K-Mart today, so I got you a treat." She got out a EpII book ( ) and ... a 2 player starter box of TCG This is the 1st time my wife has supported my Star Wars fanship or card playing hobby. Anyway, here's what I thought. Simplicity Awesome. The way you can get used to it with the playmat and a few cards is great. damage tokens At first I thought huh? Cardboard? But then I thought. Having just cardboard tokens rather than glass beads in other games maked it affordable. Not as cool, but affordable. The general look of the game The most enjoyment I got was lookign at the pictures before playing. Cool pics. gameplay Good. A lot more fun than I suspected. There is enough variety in the cards to last a few games with the same sets. Thoughts I thought reinforcements came in very handy, and I like the "hidden build" mechanic. A gameplay question. Let's say my card says "pay 3 force - Evade up to 3 damage" Does that mean I pay 1 for each damage, or I pay 3 force whether I evade 1, 2 or 3 force. Can I deploy cards to an arena that I have lost? Thanx. -----signature----- 9-11. Never forget those innocents who died. I'd be interested to hear from other SW fans who have Tourettes Syndrome. Yes, all the spelling mistakes in my posts are intentional
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Bacabachaui Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 5/2/02 1:50am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	You have to pay 3 whetehr you evade 1,2, or 3. Yes, you can deploy to an arena that you do not currently have units in. It's not really "lost" until you lose the whole game by not having units in 2 of the 3. Awesome news about your wife buying some. That is now the 4th or 5th case of Spousal support of this game. And the second case of them actually buying it! -----signature----- "Our dice, like our dreams, are a portable treasure."--NetCowboy
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EagleIFilms Title: Retired Chapter Rep Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 5/2/02 9:06am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	I'm sorry, I don't have the time to read this whole thread, but goin by the first 6 posts or so, I think a couple problems came up. 1. You (Artie) didn't read the rules through enough times to get everything solved. A few problems you had (not understanding rules) I understoof by reading the rules. I think that may have affected your game. 2. A lot of what you're going off of is that 'This is no CCG'. I, as a reletivly new gamer, can't disagree. I'm starting out with the TCG, with only a single (bad) experience with the CCG. I find the TCG fun, engaging, and it's fast tempo suits me just fine. It takes as lone as a game of ping-pong, or 1 on 1 basketball. It allows me to play once on the Dark Side, and once as Light Side, and still get home for dinner. That's just my opinion, but I like the TCG. -----signature----- It's okay, not everyone can do post-modern. http://twitter.com/gregoryharbin http://gregory.harbn.com
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Artie-Deco Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 5/2/02 9:41am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	1. You (Artie) didn't read the rules through enough times to get everything solved. No, that wasn't the problem. The problem was, I had questions that came up while I was playing the game, I went to the rulebook to find the answer, and either (1) found the answer in a place I would not have expected, (2) could not find a direct answer anywhere in the rule book, or (3) could not find a direct or indirect answer anywhere in the rule book. 2. A lot of what you're going off of is that 'This is no CCG'. Keep in mind, I'm writing to this audience, and this audience, until recently, was exclusively a SW:CCG audience (with a few Young Jedi players thrown in the mix from time to time). If this was a discussion group for Pokemon or Magic, I wouldn't have made those comments ... in fact, I would have tried to show similarities and differences with those games instead. I'm glad you like the new SW:TCG. For me, it's an okay game, but not a great game. But to each his own, so, ENJOY! -----signature----- Those who seek the LORD lack no good thing. -- Psalm 34:10
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1stAD Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 5/2/02 10:25am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG - Date Edited: 5/2/02 10:32am (2 edits total) Edited By: 1stAD
	All right, I finally managed to track this game down. I grabbed a Starter set and a few 5 and 11 card packs. I'll say this: maybe it was just pure bad luck, but the distribution in the 5 card packs was a lot better for me. I got more units and rare mains (including foils) from the 5 card packs, whereas I got tons of battle and mission cards from the 11 card packs. Now here's a sample of a game I played very recently: -During setup phase, my opponent (dark side) and I built heavily in space. I had mainly N-1 fighters, a Jedi Starfighter, and a Naboo Cruiser against a pair of TF Battleships and a Droid Fighter Squadron. On the ground, I was almost completely outclassed with a measely Speeder Bike Squad against a pair of Geonosians (crit 3 - ouch!) and some other ground units. In the character arena I had Anakin B holding against some weaker characters. -As the game began, attacks occured frequently in the space arena. Build points were few and far between (about 3 per turn) and dark side was building space units a lot faster than I could. I immediately retreated in the Ground arena. Anakin B took control of the Character arena in one turn and I soon stacked another Anakin B and Anakin D below. At this point my opponent completely conceded the character arena and stopped building there, spending all points towards combat in space. Meanwhile, I was slowly building an AT-TE. -After about three turns, I started to lose grip on the space arena. I was rolling bad dice rolls while dark side was rolling tons of hits. I finished building the AT-TE and try to send a few fighters into space. By the next turn I had almost completely been wiped out in Space, but I had enough build points to throw another squad of Speeder bikes into the Ground arena. I advanced once again in the Ground arena and retreated in the Space arena. My gambit was successful, as my bikes and walker overwhelmed the underdeployed Ground arena. Game over in six or seven turns. I'll say this about the game - there is a chance it could become as complex as CCG. But not in a way like Decipher, where you could hunt bounty, or establish a hidden base, or train to be a Jedi. But I do think given the framework of the combat system, many more options will become available. What Wizards chooses to do with this remains to be seen. What they've got right now isn't too bad, since there are many variables already affecting the outcome of battles: -Shields -Critical Hit -Evade -Deflect -Bombard -Ion cannon I really like the idea of cross-arena attack and would like to see more of it. Maybe "shelling" for Ground-to-Character attacking, and something similar for the reverse. And there are already many unit-specific Magic-style "tapping" abilities in play, so if Wizards can get creative we might see some good things. Heck, even if they don't and just lift abilities from Magic we still will see a more varied combat environment. I wonder if an equivalent to an "epic event" would be possible, an extremely costly venture like destroying the Death Star that would yield complete victory in one arena if completed. Also, keeping a minimum required number of units almost forces you to at least build in an arena you might otherwise not want to. And keeping a maximum number of units allowed prevents a two-arena only strategy. I like the simplicity of the play-or-pass chance. There's been many a CCG game where I was hindered by poor timing as I played a card, or when an unscrupulous player skipped phases without allowing me to respond. The timing definitions in the Glossary alone spanned 4 pages! The one aspect of the game that really bugs me right now is bidding for a unique unit. I don't like the mechanic, because to my understanding it is possible for a character to fight for one side one turn only to fight for the other in the next. Great concept for a bounty hunter and whatnot, but once Vader comes out this'll get messy. EDIT: The rulebook was possibly the worst rulebook put together. It is organized in a completely illogical fashion, in my first few games I had to jump around the book several times. Some things aren't even in the general rules and have to be found in the glossary. -----signature----- People who live in glass houses throw stones at homosexuals
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EagleIFilms Title: Retired Chapter Rep Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 5/2/02 11:02am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	I'll say this: maybe it was just pure bad luck, but the distribution in the 5 card packs was a lot better for me. I got more units and rare mains (including foils) from the 5 card packs, whereas I got tons of battle and mission cards from the 11 card packs. Interesting, I've found it to be the other way around. the 11 card backs are supposed to (and have for me) have at least 1 rare card, which is not the case for the 5 card packs. I do agree that the rulebook is not very well set up, but I found after reading it a few times, I got the general idea of playing. I admit (really!) that finding answers was not extremly easy, but the questions that Artie had I didn't find so hard to find. It wouldn't make sense that you could take cards from your discard pile and build them (which is what it seemed your question was). And the other thing you asked was a matter of it just not specifially saying, 'you cannot do this'. The rulebook would be a LOT longer rulebook if it had to keep saying, 'You cannot do such-and-such' all the time. I do think that part of this is the switch from the CCG, and your brain being wired to the way of playing the CCG, which is a problem I didn't have. -----signature----- It's okay, not everyone can do post-modern. http://twitter.com/gregoryharbin http://gregory.harbn.com
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Ocelot_X Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 5/2/02 11:40pm Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG
	>>>I admit (really!) that finding answers was not extremly easy, but the questions that Artie had I didn't find so hard to find. It wouldn't make sense that you could take cards from your discard pile and build them (which is what it seemed your question was). That wasn't what Artie's question was at all. What he wanted to know was this: say you have 2 Anakins in your hand. You build one and a couple turns later, he gets killed. You still have the other one in your hand. Can you play the other one, or is Anakin considered "dead" and unplayable? Some games let you play a different copy of a unique character again after they die. Some don't. The SWTCG rulebook didn't make it clear what it did or did not allow with regards to this subject. I would assume it would allow for such an action, since normally if you have a unit in your hand, you can build it. If there were some exception where you couldn't, I would think they'd specifically say so (like how they say you can't bring two copies of the same unique unit into play at the same time). Although looking at the rules, it seems like you CAN have a unique unit in play and another copy face down with build tokens on it. It would seem to me that if a deck is particularly dependent on one or two unique characters, rather than making a stack it might be smarter to build one while the other is in play, and then put the second copy into play right after the other gets killed. If your deck depended on the same character a lot, this seems like it would keep them our longer (each card play would net you the card's full health worth of hits, rather than just one more). This would be especially true if you used a bunch of the same version of a character, since those can't stack. -----signature----- Those blind with rage are by destiny ensnared.
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Artie-Deco Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 5/3/02 9:19am Subject: RE: First Impression of SW:TCG - Date Edited: 5/3/02 9:23am (1 edits total) Edited By: Artie-Deco
	I admit (really!) that finding answers was not extremly easy And that's all I was saying; just giving some examples to back it up. Your examples may be different than mine. I do think that part of this is the switch from the CCG, and your brain being wired to the way of playing the CCG, which is a problem I didn't have. You would be wrong. I play more games than just SW:CCG. I play or have played Young Jedi, Jedi Knights, LOTR, Pokemon, X-Men, Star Trek CCG ... and more. (See the thread elsewhere about "other ccgs".) As I said in my first post, this game compares relatively well to Young Jedi and Jedi Knights ... if I thought this audience would care I'd say it compares well to Pokemon too, and in fact has more than a few similarities to Pokemon. Okay? And Ocelot, your example is exactly what I was talking about. Thanks! -----signature----- Those who seek the LORD lack no good thing. -- Psalm 34:10
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