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Topic:
ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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Shadowen
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
2/28/05 12:42pm
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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Kazur, tell me where it says that once you take levels in Jedi, you can't take levels in anything else. I mean, for one thing, Vader would seem to dispel that notion.
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JoinTheSchwarz
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
2/28/05 1:34pm
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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Kazur, tell me where it says that once you take levels in Jedi, you can't take levels in anything else.
Living Force ruling, IIRC. I apply that rule during the Rise of the Empire era.
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
2/28/05 2:22pm
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
2/28/05 2:23pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
MasterKazur
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Kazur, tell me where it says that once you take levels in Jedi, you can't take levels in anything else. I mean, for one thing, Vader would seem to dispel that notion.
You can take levels in something else, but you wouldn't be able to take any more Jedi levels from that point on.
And Vader took Sith levels and didn't take any Jedi levels after that so I guess I proved my point was valid.
I did however find something that I think Sithreaper might be interested in...
According to the Dark Side Sourcebook and Jedi character who falls to the Dark Side can "trade in" Jedi levels in favor of Sith Lord levels (or any other Sith class) when he falls to the Dark Side.
This means that Anakin Skywalker could be anywhere from level 12 (F1/JG11) to level 18 (F1/JG17) in ROTS. I feel maybe 16 is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM he could have achieved, and even that is VERY unlikely. Especially considering he also has 20 years of XP ahead of him.
But still, this should put a smile on your face, Sithreaper.
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JoinTheSchwarz
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
2/28/05 2:25pm
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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Damn, I had completely forgotten about trading levels. You're right.
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
2/28/05 3:29pm
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
2/28/05 3:34pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
MasterKazur
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I light of the new discovery of the trading rule I made these stats for Anakin.
This would be the "Super" version of Anakin from Episode III. The maximum level of power he can possibly posses. This is unlikely but still possible.
This should fit very well with the Darth Vader stats.
Anakin Skywalker (beginning of Episode III): Male Human Fringer 1/Jedi Guardian 17; Init +3 (Dex); Defense 25 (+12 class, +3 Dex); Spd 10 m; VP/WP 146/14; Atk +22/+17/+12/+7* melee (5d8+1/19-20, lightsaber) or +20/+15/+10/+5 ranged; SQ Force Points use a though three levels higher; Skywalkers get Force-sensitive feat free and ignore the “Force Level 1st” prerequisite when selecting the Force feats Control, Sense and Alter; bonus class skill (Repair); deflect (defense +4, attack -2, extend defense and attack), block; SV Fort +14, Ref +14, Will +9; SZ M; FP 10; DSP 5; Rep +5; Str 13, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 13.
Equipment: Lightsaber, Jedi robes, mechanical right forearm.
*Anakin has constructed his own lightsaber.
Skills: Balance +6, Craft (lightsaber) +5, Knowledge (alien species) +4, Knowledge (Jedi lore) +5, Knowledge (streetwise) +5, Knowledge (Tatooine) +4, Pilot +15, Read/Write Basic, Read/Write Huttese, Repair +8, Search +6, Speak Basic, Speak Huttese, Spot +4, Survival +3, Tumble +5.
Force Skills: Affect Mind +8, Battlemind +10, Enhance Ability +12, Farseeing +6, Force Defense +13, Force Strike +7, Move Object +20, See Force +13, Telepathy +14.
Feats: Exotic Weapon (lightsaber), Force-Sensitive, Gearhead, Power Attack, Skill Emphasis (Pilot), Starship Operation (starfighters), Weapon Finesse (lightsaber), Weapon Focus (lightsaber), Weapon Group Proficiencies (blaster pistols, primitive weapons, simple weapons).
Force Feats: Alter, Burst of Speed, Control, Force Whirlwind, Knight Defense, Lightsaber Defense, Mettle, Rage, Sense.
Once Anakin falls to the Dark Side he gains 12 extra skill points as Sith Lords get 6+int instead of the 4+int of the Jedi Guardian.
These are put in Fear and Force Grip.
Once he trades his 6 Jedi levels he will also lose his Weapon Finesse feat (as this was a bonus feat from that class) but it will be replaced by Malevolent (which along with the dark side bonus will encrease his Grip and Fear skills t their correct level).
This means his lightsaber will drop to +20 but with the Sith lord class he now has 6d8+1 of damage. This makes sense as he likely gives up some finesse in favor of damage power.
His defense will however be raised, as will his reputation and saving throws. His deflect skill(s) are also altered as this point, which suits his new Sith ways as Darth Vader.
Darth Vader (beginning of “The Duel”): Male Human Fringer 1/Jedi Guardian 11/Sith Lord 6; Init +3 (Dex); Defense 26 (+13 class, +3 Dex); Spd 10 m; VP/WP 146/14; Atk +20/+15/+10/+5* melee (6d8+1/19-20, lightsaber) or +20/+15/+10/+5 ranged; SQ Force Points use a though three levels higher; Skywalkers get Force-sensitive feat free and ignore the “Force Level 1st” prerequisite when selecting the Force feats Control, Sense and Alter; bonus class skill (Repair); deflect (defense +3, attack -1, extend defense and attack), block, resource access, Sith battle prowess, Sith secret, minions; SV Fort +14, Ref +15, Will +10; SZ M; FP 10; DSP 13; Rep +6; Str 13, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 13.
Equipment: Lightsaber, Jedi robes, mechanical right forearm.
*Darth Vader has constructed his own lightsaber.
Skills: Balance +6, Craft (lightsaber) +5, Knowledge (alien species) +4, Knowledge (Jedi lore) +5, Knowledge (streetwise) +5, Knowledge (Sith Lore) +7, Knowledge (Tatooine) +4, Pilot +15, Read/Write Basic, Read/Write Huttese, Repair +8, Search +6, Speak Basic, Speak Huttese, Spot +4, Survival +3, Tumble +5.
Force Skills: Affect Mind +8, Battlemind +10, Enhance Ability +12, Farseeing +6, Fear +11, Force Defense +13, Force Grip +15, Force Strike +7, Move Object +20, See Force +13, Telepathy +14.
Feats: Exotic Weapon (lightsaber), Force-Sensitive, Gearhead, Power Attack, Skill Emphasis (Pilot), Starship Operation (starfighters), Weapon Focus (lightsaber), Weapon Group Proficiencies (blaster pistols, primitive weapons, simple weapons).
Force Feats: Alter, Burst of Speed, Control, Force Whirlwind, Knight Defense, Lightsaber Defense, Malevolent, Mettle, Rage, Sense.
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Yoda: You seek Yoda!
Luke: You know him?
Yoda: Take you to him I will... Ehehe. But now we must eat -- COME! (it's just not as funny after the censor)
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
2/28/05 3:51pm
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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Now after Vader loses to Obi-Wan at the end, some changes ofcourse happen to him which affect his stats.
His Vitality points needs to be reduced in order to fit with the original Vader stats.
The armor he wears boosts both his strength and his constitution. This increased his lightsaber attack rolls and damage and Wound points. His Fortitude also increases.
His balance and tumble also drop (armor penalties). His battlemind and enhance ability increased as a result of his armor boosts to constitution.
Vaders massive injuries result in a permanent -1 penalty on Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma. This reduces almost all of his skills (including Force skills) and his will saving throw. And ofcourse with his lost limbs (numbering many) his Skywalker force bonus to Force Points is all but gone!
Darth Vader (end of Episode III): Male Human Fringer 1/Jedi Guardian 11/Sith Lord 6; Init +3 (Dex); Defense 26 (+13 class, +3 Dex); DR 6; Spd 10 m; VP/WP 122/18; Atk +22/+17/+12/+7* melee (6d8+3/19-20, lightsaber) or +20/+15/+10/+5 ranged; SQ Force Points use a though three levels higher; Skywalkers get Force-sensitive feat free and ignore the “Force Level 1st” prerequisite when selecting the Force feats Control, Sense and Alter; bonus class skill (Repair); deflect (defense +3, attack -1, extend defense and attack), block, resource access, Sith battle prowess, Sith secret, minions; SV Fort +16, Ref +15, Will +9; SZ M; FP 10; DSP 15; Rep +6; Str 17**, Dex 17, Con 18**, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 12.
Equipment: Lightsaber, dark armor.
*Darth Vader has constructed his own lightsaber.
**Dark armor contains life support apparatus that boosts Darth Vader’s Strength and Constitution.
Skills: Balance +2, Craft (lightsaber) +4, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (alien species) +3, Knowledge (Jedi lore) +4, Knowledge (streetwise) +4, Knowledge (Sith Lore) +6, Knowledge (Tatooine) +3, Pilot +15, Read/Write Basic, Read/Write Huttese, Repair +7, Search +5, Speak Basic, Speak Huttese, Spot +3, Survival +2, Tumble +1.
Force Skills: Affect Mind +8, Battlemind +12, Enhance Ability +14, Farseeing +5, Fear +10, Force Defense +13, Force Grip +14, Force Strike +6, Move Object +19, See Force +12, Telepathy +13.
Feats: Exotic Weapon (lightsaber), Force-Sensitive, Gearhead, Power Attack, Skill Emphasis (Pilot), Starship Operation (starfighters), Weapon Focus (lightsaber), Weapon Group Proficiencies (blaster pistols, primitive weapons, simple weapons).
Force Feats: Alter, Burst of Speed, Control, Force Whirlwind, Knight Defense, Lightsaber Defense, Malevolent, Mettle, Rage, Sense.
I think you will find that with the appropriate age modifiers these Vader stats should fit perfectly with the ones from A New Hope.
Darth Vader (beginning of Episode IV): Male Human Fringer 1/Jedi Guardian 11/Sith Lord 6; Init +3 (Dex); Defense 26 (+13 class, +3 Dex); DR 6; Spd 10 m; VP/WP 122/17; Atk +22/+17/+12/+7* melee (6d8+3/19-20, lightsaber) or +20/+15/+10/+5 ranged; SQ Force Points use a though three levels higher; Skywalkers get Force-sensitive feat free and ignore the “Force Level 1st” prerequisite when selecting the Force feats Control, Sense and Alter; bonus class skill (Repair); deflect (defense +3, attack -1, extend defense and attack), block, resource access, Sith battle prowess, Sith secret, minions; SV Fort +15, Ref +15, Will +10; SZ M; FP 10; DSP 16; Rep +10; Str 16**, Dex 16, Con 17**, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 13.
Equipment: Lightsaber, dark armor.
*Vader has constructed his own lightsaber.
**Dark armor contains life support apparatus that boosts Darth Vader’s Strength and Constitution.
Skills: Balance +2, Craft (lightsaber) +5, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (alien species) +4, Knowledge (Jedi lore) +5, Knowledge (streetwise) +5, Knowledge (Sith lore) +7, Knowledge (Tatooine) +4, Pilot +15, Read/Write Basic, Read/Write Huttese, Read/Write Sith, Repair +8, Search +7, Speak Basic, Speak Huttese, Speak Sith, Spot +4, Survival +3, Tumble +1.
Force Skills: Affect Mind +8, Battlemind +11, Enhance Ability +13, Farseeing +6, Fear +11, Force Defense +13, Force Grip +15, Force Strike +7, Move Object +20, See Force +13, Telepathy +14.
Feats: Exotic Weapon (lightsaber), Force-Sensitive, Gearhead, Power Attack, Skill Emphasis (Pilot), Starship Operation (starfighter), Weapon Focus (lightsaber), Weapon Group Proficiencies (blaster pistols, primitive weapons, simple weapons, vibro weapons).
Force Feats: Alter, Burst of Speed, Control, Force Whirlwind, Knight Defense, Lightsaber Defense, Malevolent, Mettle, Rage, Sense.
-----signature-----
Yoda: You seek Yoda!
Luke: You know him?
Yoda: Take you to him I will... Ehehe. But now we must eat -- COME! (it's just not as funny after the censor)
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sithreaper
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
3/1/05 5:43am
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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Now theres a powerful bad ass capable of taking down jedi in there droves. Although I would also give him a freaky amount of FP these stats are top draw well done Master Kazur.
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
3/1/05 6:42am
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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Yeah I started thinking about that too. The Force Point issue. Give him 15 as of the beginning of Episode III and beginning of "The Duel" and 10 by the end of Episode III.
That would rival Yoda as far as ammount go and ecceed Yoda in power because Anakin uses Force Points as though level 21. But taking into account his metal arm it would probably be the same.
Glad you like my stats Sithreaper.
But gaining 11 levels during a 3 years period after only gaining 1 every 2nd year prior to that seems unlikely. But he IS the hero of the clone wars and the most powerful Jedi up to that point, so these stats are not impossible.
Powerful he certainly is. Enjoy!
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Yoda: You seek Yoda!
Luke: You know him?
Yoda: Take you to him I will... Ehehe. But now we must eat -- COME! (it's just not as funny after the censor)
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sithreaper
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
3/1/05 8:41am
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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15 FP it is. Cheers again kazur I will use these stats in some up coming campaigns.
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
3/3/05 1:48pm
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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Cool and thanks. Always glad to know my stats are being used. With the 15 Force points and the Skywalker bonus there should be little doubt that Anakin is the most powerful Jedi up to this point and maybe even the most powerful ever. (even without being a level 20). Especially the Darth Vader from beginning of the duel. Man! He would destroy all who opposed him... Except for Kenobi that is. heh heh
But seriously, these stats should do him credit and they are within the rules of the game.
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Yoda: You seek Yoda!
Luke: You know him?
Yoda: Take you to him I will... Ehehe. But now we must eat -- COME! (it's just not as funny after the censor)
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
3/9/05 7:17am
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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Let me try this again! (third time)
I do not think Darth Sidious' stats do him credit combatwise.
According to the spoilers, Sidious is better than anybody else we've seen before with a lightsaber. Nick Gillard says that he's definately the best and the stats WotC made for him, don't seem right to me.
Sure he could use his Fear +18 to give his opponents up to -10 on attacks and stuff against him but that could be ignored or countered with battlemind... Something needs to be done.
Anyone up for a challenge? :-)
These are the stats as they are now. We need to toughen him up.
Darth Sidious (beginning of Episode III): Male Human Noble 4/Dark Side Devotee 6/Sith Lord 10; Init +0; Defense 24 (+14 class); Spd 10 m; VP/WP 124/13; Atk +18/+13/+8/+3* melee (5d8/19-20, lightsaber) or +17/+12/+7/+2 ranged; SQ Bonus class skill (Intimidate), favor +4, inspire confidence, resource access, coordinate +1, dark side talisman +2, force weapon +1d8, resource access, Sith secrets, exceptional minions, Sith Master; SV Fort +12, Ref +11, Will +18; SZ M; FP 9; DSP 32; Rep +17; Str 11, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 16, Cha 16.
Equipment: Private transport.
Darth Sidious had contructed his own lightsaber.
Skills: Bluff +13, Craft (lightsaber) +6, Computer Use +7, Diplomacy +19, Gather Information +16, Intimidate +15, Knowledge (bureaucracy) +15, Knowledge (politics) +15, Knowledge (Jedi lore) +10, Knowledge (Naboo) +6, Knowledge (Sith lore) +15, Read/Write Basic, Read/Write Bothan, Read/Write Mon Calamarian, Read/Write Gran, Read/Write Rodian, Read/Write Ryl, Read/Write Sith, Sense Motive +11, Speak Basic, Speak Bothan, Speak Mon Calamarian, Speak Gran, Speak Rodian, Speak Ryl, Speak Sith.
Force Skills: Affect Mind +14, Alchemy +17, Control Mind +15, Drain Energy +12, Empathy +17, Farseeing +23, Fear +18, Force Defense +16, Force Grip +16, Force Lightning +15, Heal Self +14, Move Object +12, See Force +18, Telepathy +20, Transfer Essense +17.
Feats: Fame, Force-Sensitive, Skill Emphasis (Diplomacy), Skill Emphasis (Farseeing), Skill Emphasis (Fear), Skill Emphasis (Force Lightning), Skill Emphasis (Influence), Skill Emphasis (Knowledge (politics)), Skill Emphasis (Telepathy), Link, Trustworthy, Weapon Group Proficiencies (blaster pistols, simple weapons).
Force Feats: Alter, Control, Dissipate Energy, Force Mastery, Force Mind, Malevolent, Sense.
-----signature-----
Yoda: You seek Yoda!
Luke: You know him?
Yoda: Take you to him I will... Ehehe. But now we must eat -- COME! (it's just not as funny after the censor)
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JoinTheSchwarz
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
3/9/05 6:44pm
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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Okay, this is the second iteration of my Eta-2 stats. Comments are welcome:
Craft: Sienar Republic Systems Eta-2 Actis-class starfighter
Class: Starfighter
Cost: 143,00 kCr
Size: Diminutive (8 meters length)
Initiative: +8 (+4 crew, +4 size)
Crew: 1 (Skilled +4)
Passengers: 0
Cargo Capacity: None
Consumables: 1 Week
Hyperdrive: x1
Maximum Speed: Ramming (10 squares/action)
Atmospheric Speed: 1200 km/h (20 squares/action)
Maneuver: +8 (+4 size, +4 crew)
Defense: 24 (+4 size, +10 armor)
Hull Points: 60 (DR 5)
Shield Points: 30 (DR 5)
Weapon: Laser Cannon (2 fire-linked); Fire Arc: Front; Attack Bonus: +12 (+4 size, +4 crew, +4 fire control); Damage: 5d10x2; Range Modifiers: PB +0, S -2, M/L N/A.
Weapon: Proton Torpedo Launcher (6 torpedoes); Fire Arc: Front; Attack Bonus: +12 (+4 size, +4 crew, +4 fire control); Damage: 9d10x2; Range Modifiers: PB +0, S/M/L N/A; Missile Quality: Normal (+10).
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Beyond_the_Stars
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
3/11/05 2:25pm
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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I don't know what side to take on whether you can drop levels or not, after all, you boh have good arguments. However, I would very much be interested in making a CW/RotS series of stats.
P.S. Does anyone think that perhaps Anakin should have a level or two of Jedi Ace?
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kidwehatethemost
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
3/12/05 11:06am
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
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I do think Anakin deserves a level or two in Jedi Ace, "Best star pilot in the galaxy", He's supposed to be awesome in ROTS, and he even flies in ANH.. so yeah..
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Shadowen
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
3/12/05 3:17pm
Subject:
RE: ROTS Levels (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/12/05 3:20pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Shadowen
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To say nothing of the fact that his Pilot modifier is a piddling +10.
I once did a remake of Vader's stats that maxed his Pilot skill, all the way to his final level. I think his final modifier, when he was using Enhance Ability and got a good roll, enhancing his Dexterity by the maximum amount, was like +29... It also made him a maxed-out Jedi Ace: Fringer 1/Jedi Guardian 6/Jedi Ace 5/Sith Lord 6. In reality, I should probably tone down the Jedi Ace bit--maybe to 3, or even to 1 (to allow him to keep the second lightsaber damage increase he has from Jedi Guardian).
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