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Topic:
New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
1/3 6:00am
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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Force Lightning would be another; it has been shown in several sources now to be used without training. Also -- you might consider Saga's Force Slam (essentially Injure/Kill or Force Strike from d20 RCRB). More intelligently honed TK requires training than a raw application of it, so it seems.
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Rogue_Thunder
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
1/3 8:57pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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Yeah, I know Jacen used Force Lightning untrained in Traitor, though off the top of my head I can't think of any others. Any suggestions on Force Points, relating to calling on the dark side?
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I'll fly a starship across the universe divide
And when I reach the other side
I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain, but I will remain, and I'll be back again...
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/3 10:52pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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Rogue_Thunder posted:
Yeah, I know Jacen used Force Lightning untrained in Traitor, though off the top of my head I can't think of any others. Any suggestions on Force Points, relating to calling on the dark side?
Jaina
Luke
Dathomiri (not using the Spell of Lightning version)
Also, it was established at least in the RCRB if not the OCRB. NOTHING in WEG could be used without the specific power that I recall...
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
1/4 8:58am
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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Rogue_Thunder posted:
Yeah, I know Jacen used Force Lightning untrained in Traitor, though off the top of my head I can't think of any others. Any suggestions on Force Points, relating to calling on the dark side?
Merkurian and I are throwing around some ideas about this over in the House Rules thread right now. Check it out.
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Jedi_Matt
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
1/11 1:40pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
- Date Edited:
1/11 1:43pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Jedi_Matt
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dp4m posted:
Rogue_Thunder posted:
Yeah, I know Jacen used Force Lightning untrained in Traitor, though off the top of my head I can't think of any others. Any suggestions on Force Points, relating to calling on the dark side?
Jaina
Luke
Dathomiri (not using the Spell of Lightning version)
Also, it was established at least in the RCRB if not the OCRB. NOTHING in WEG could be used without the specific power that I recall...
Just to make sure I'm reading this the right way. Do you mean that according to WEG rules, only powers you were trained in could be used?
If so, I'm sure in 2nd Edit. R&E, your GM had the option of letting his players acheive something with the help of a Force Point, at a particularly relevant time/situation. This could be attributed to Luke's use of Telekinesis in ESB/Splinter of the Mind's Eye (he did use T/K in SotME, right?)
I imagine that if a GM is willing to allow a generic Force user, therefore possibly a lightsider, use an unknown power in such a way; I'm sure the Dark Side would be even more willing to help in such a situation when called upon, especially if there's a hint of desperation and/or fear in the air.
If it isn't what you meant DP, then nevermind, got a point across of some sort 
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/11 2:10pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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Jedi_Matt posted:
If it isn't what you meant DP, then nevermind, got a point across of some sort
It isn't. I never got as far as R&E (since it was "teh stupid") but in original versions of WEG -- or at least the good 2nd edition -- you couldn't use a power untrained.
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"Looks like you're about to get pwned" - Eric Cartman
"On another note, 'diplomacy' is one of the most versatile words in the player character arsenal. It covers pretty much any conceivable action in any imaginable scenario." - Darths & Droids
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
1/11 3:08pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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dp4m posted:
Jedi_Matt posted:
If it isn't what you meant DP, then nevermind, got a point across of some sort
It isn't. I never got as far as R&E (since it was "teh stupid") but in original versions of WEG -- or at least the good 2nd edition -- you couldn't use a power untrained.
I'm curious. What were your problems with R&E, if you don't mind?
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/11 11:55pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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Blithe posted:
I'm curious. What were your problems with R&E, if you don't mind?
It was another edition that wasn't needed and was designed solely to make me buy a new edition?
I don't mind complete structural changes like D&D 1 -> 2 -> 3 or even if they get it wrong the first time and revise WEG 1st -> WEG 2nd, OCRB -> RCRB, D&D 3.0 -> 3.5 but things like R&E just seemed... fail.
I don't own any of the books and it's obviously been years, but I recall disliking R&E immensely but as I haven't played WEG in years I can't verify anything in specific.
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"Looks like you're about to get pwned" - Eric Cartman
"On another note, 'diplomacy' is one of the most versatile words in the player character arsenal. It covers pretty much any conceivable action in any imaginable scenario." - Darths & Droids
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
1/12 7:09pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
- Date Edited:
1/12 7:22pm (4 edits total)
Edited By:
Blithe
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Geez - the more I dig into SAGA, the more I'm starting to hate it outright, again...
After some use, a couple of other issues became apparently clear to me: Use the Force is WAY, WAY too broad of a skill, and allows Jedi players too much power early on. I recognized this early on, but that was more in regards to the uncanonical feel of one over all Force skill. Now I simply deplore it on a game-play basis.
Next - and I can't even believe I'm about to say this, but I'm a fair sport - but the Force skill/vitality cost system of the previous editions... wasn't so bad afterall.   I really have to say, that as much as I've bashed Wizards over this one in the past, I practically owe them an apology. 
There, I said it. Reason being, I still think it could have used a lot of work - and the overall Force skill stuff still seems broken to me at times - and while I like the WEG throwback to no insanely harsh, stamina-draining Force-use, there is SO much room for abuse on this. Jedi with a couple of basic Force skills are already dominating combat. The vitality cost really did help tone this down. I didn't realize it as much before, but now I'm going back and already considering some house rules to just fix the old way!
There have been some good additions to Force Powers - Force Stun, for example, was badly needed. The basic suite that all Force users get is really great, too. But what's with the redundancy in Telekinetic powers? There's Move Object, Force Thrust, Force Slam, Force Disarm. . . I mean, as I've said before, Force Disarm is just stupid, and should be covered by Move Object already. Force Slam and Thrus, while having slight nuances of difference, is pretty much just re-introducing Force Strike (RCR) and Force Push (OCR) at the same time, which is weird. Surge seems awfully weak for Force Jumps. As far as Force powers go, there aren't very many, either. I know WotC are really big on sticking to the "movies only" powers for the core rules, and I'm sure they plan to cover more in their sourcebooks as well, but I'd personally prefer a few more in a core book then what is there.
Strangely, the old Split Force option is now a talent, so not just any Force-user can use a power on multiple targets unless the power already affects multiple targets or just as a wide radius, which does not even begin to make sense. It is terribly weak and costly, too. (One Force Point to use Split Force to affect ONE extra target? Come on!)
As I've said in earlier posts, I DO like the refinement of the skill lists, but after testing and creating several characters, the simplification down to just trained or untrained still bothers me. More on this, I'm all for streamlining the process for the GM, but... it's just that a lot of the rules are striking me as if the developers assume I'm an idiot, and trying to dumb everything down for me as much as possible.
Actual trial runs confirmed to me that the Feats are weak like I initially thought. At least it is good that you get more, though. (I guess)
Overall, after fooling around a little bit, I think my group is probably looking at a few house rules to take the best of Saga, and the best of OCR/RCR. Which honestly, should work out quite well. We've done the same thing over the years with the three editions of d6 - find what works best for us from each, and play. To give props to WotC, I'm glad that they made SAGA easily convertable from system to system.
I'll probably give a write-up for our group's house rules for our game.
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Jedi_Matt
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
1/16 2:15pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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hey, while we're bashing the force rules of saga ( ) Is there a way to change your Force suite? apart from just adding to it I mean.
I would house rule any Force power that your character has multiple times in their force suite can 'unlearn' it and replace it with a power they have trained in as long as it doesn't take the total amount down to below 1. Therefore that power is always in the suite, but not in multiples.
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
1/16 2:41pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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Hey - it isn't anything personal; I've bashed RCR just as bad.
As for your question: No, I do not think there is. At least - I have not seen it.
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Rogue_Thunder
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
1/18 9:10pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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Well here's my house rules for the Dark Side... *shrugs* It's what I've got, so it'll have to do for my game...
Force Points – All die results are used and added when using a Force Point for any purpose.
Force Power descriptors – Until your Dark Side Score equals half your Wisdom score (rounded down) or higher, then you may double the amount of Force Point dice used to modify your Use the Force roll. After that point, when you use a Force Point, you may roll only the number of dice described on page 93 (SECR), until your Dark Side Score equals your wisdom score, at which point decrease the number of dice rolled by 1. In other words, a 6th level character, with a Wisdom score of 12, may double their dice to 2d6, instead of 1d6 when calling on the Dark Side, until that characters Dark Side Score is greater than 6 (½ the Wis score) then that character can only use 1d6 when using a Force point (at minimum, a character is allowed to use at least 1d6). An 8th level character, with a Dark Side Score of 12 (or higher) and a Wisdom score of 12 can only roll 1d6, when using a Force Point.
Dark Side Force Powers – Dark Side Force Powers with the [Dark Side] descriptor can be used untrained, meaning that these powers do not need to be added to your Force Power Suite to be utilized, until your Dark Side Score equals ½ your Wisdom score. At which point you will need to either invest the Force Training feat into a Dark Side skill, or expend a Wisdom score increase that increases the modifier to add that Force Power to your Force Power Suite. If there are no feats or ability score increases to expend on adding a Dark Side power to your suite, then you must unlearn another Force Power and change it to a Dark Side power of the players choice.
Force Grip – Force Grip, when used on a living target, is a Dark Side power, and as such, can be used untrained, but only in the instance where it brings harm to a living creature, and can be chosen as a required Dark Side power for when your Dark Side score is equal to half your Wisdom score
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I'll fly a starship across the universe divide
And when I reach the other side
I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain, but I will remain, and I'll be back again...
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Forever_Lost
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
4/1 9:46am
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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Man, I can never settle on one damn system over another! 
To be honest, I keep getting pulled back and forth between three systems: WEG 2nd Ed R&E, WotC RCR, and Saga Edition Rulebook. Each one for different reasons.
WEG: I like this one the most because it's just so diverse, and seems to capture the fast-paced essence of the movies. Plus, you can make any character you want, without class restrictions etc.
RCR: Because my Star Wars gaming began with this rule system, and I've just been sent a tonne of sourcebooks for it.
SAGA: Because it's simple, fast-paced, and has a good feel about it... But the vast errata that they've added for it annoys me. They've made a lot of mistakes on a book they were being really careful in writing, and I don't like the fact that I have to double check most rulings to see if it's official, or a mistake.
My players agree with me... They suggested making three write ups of all the characters, and then switching between them when we felt like a different set of rules. I'm not too sure... I think I might just stick with the d6 rules...
And thus ends my little random rant. 
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Jedi_Matt
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
4/18 1:05pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
- Date Edited:
4/18 1:06pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jedi_Matt
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Has anyone been checking the Wizards site recently? I just found like... 5 previews relating to the Legacy of the Force miniature packs including minis AND SAGA stats for Darth Krayt, Cade Skywalker, Han Solo as of LotF, Kyle Katarn as of LotF, Shado Vao, Deliah Blue, as well as some others. Here's the link to the 5th, there are links to the other four at the top of this page.
EDIT: Found this new book too.
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Rogue_Thunder
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
4/18 10:24pm
Subject:
RE: New Star Wars RPG Core Rulebook Coming!
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I saw the stats for Kyle. I can't believe he's a, what? 19th level character (I can't remember right now) and (Legacy of the Force novel SPOILER) Jacen still manages to almost pulverize him? Granted it wasn't easy, but how high a level would Jacen have to be to do that?
Good find on the book too, Matt. I'm going to have to keep an eye out for that.
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And when I reach the other side
I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain, but I will remain, and I'll be back again...
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