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Topic:
The Man of Steel
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Jedi Merkurian
Title: Games: RPG d20 GM
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 8:21am
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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"In Superman Returns he moves the Kryptonia Continent, something that weighs far less, and it nearly kills him."
You mean that big continent chock full o' kryptonite? 
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 8:57am
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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You mean that big continent chock full o' kryptonite?
Yep. But it wasn't made of kryptonite! 
And Superman has to be roughly within 2 meter of Kryptonite to be affected.
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 9:15am
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
- Date Edited:
7/27/06 9:17am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Blithe
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Kazur posted:
That was definately a factor too, you're right. But a man, super or not, can pass out from over-exhaustion or too much strain. I don't think it would have been easy for him, one way or the other to lift that continent though.
Well, I guess I just, simply, disagree, then. The fact that he was able to lift it at all, with a piece of kryptonite stuck in him, and with the entire island dotted with the stuff tells me he could've done it quite easily if you eliminate those factors.
Kazur posted:
I remember a while back it was debated wether or not the John Byrne Superman was even in the Class 100 Strength level. I for one, think he is
And the Comic book Superman I made, can with effort, lift over 1 million tons.
The way his Super Strength work is that, when he uses a Force Point and rolls a total of 6 for example, that would give him 30 more to his lifting strengths (each point worth 5 ranks), a +6 bonus to his grapple checks and a +6 bonus to strength for breaking items.
A lifting strength of 120 would enable him to lift 1 million tons as his absolute maximum.
Anything over 120... well, you get the picture.
Yeah, and his average roll with a Force Point would be 10, so his maximum would be, roughly, 16 million tons. 
The reason I mentioned it, though, is because in one of DC's directory guides, Who's Who, didn't they say that Byrne's Superman could lift the Great Pyramid easily? What I mean is that he'd need to use a FP to do it, which doesn't say a casual effort to me, but putting everything you've got into it. But I suppose it could just as well mean IF he went all out, he could do it easily.
Well, nevermind, then; it's all good. 
Now, what would you suggest for a pre-crisis Superman, and how would flying into the sun effect his power?
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Fandomar
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 10:08am
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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I mean;he could be in trouble with the shuttle and 100 mins later be strong enough to lift a whole continent.
In the DC HEROES RPG THERE IS A TERM CALLED hERO POINTS WHICH ARE MORE FIT for action like these you can have a lot of those and you can use it to raise your character stats. well seing the magic weakness should the force (beacuase we,re talking about the Star Wars system) should affect Superman like if it were magic? because there,s not magic in Star Wars what the Star Wars think of magic is translated in another use of the force diferrent than the Jedi or Sith
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 10:29am
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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Well, I guess I just, simply, disagree, then. The fact that he was able to lift it at all, with a piece of kryptonite stuck in him, and with the entire island dotted with the stuff tells me he could've done it quite easily if you eliminate those factors.
Okay. This is most likely due to the fact that he uses a Force point to regain his powers while in contact with kryptonite, I don't know.
It is a well known fact that Superman loses his powers when in conctact with kryptonite. So either he "puts everything he's got into the lift" (in game terms uses a Force Point to shrug off the effects of the Kryptonite) or this is a big mistake from the Director's side (which I doubt). But yes we disagree that the Returns Superman could have lifted the Continent easily.
I say no way . He could lift it. But not easily.
Yeah, and his average roll with a Force Point would be 10, so his maximum would be, roughly, 16 million tons.
The reason I mentioned it, though, is because in one of DC's directory guides, Who's Who, didn't they say that Byrne's Superman could lift the Great Pyramid easily? What I mean is that he'd need to use a FP to do it, which doesn't say a casual effort to me, but putting everything you've got into it. But I suppose it could just as well mean IF he went all out, he could do it easily.
Precisely .
What I think that particular phrase means is that if Superman gives it his all (Force point), then he could lift the pyramid fairly easily, meaning it wouldn't be a heavy or maximum load for him.
Well, nevermind, then; it's all good.
Now, what would you suggest for a pre-crisis Superman, and how would flying into the sun effect his power?
I was actually thinking about writing up a Pre-Crisis Superman, for you guys
I will get to work on it tonight.
He could lift the continent easily, Blithe.
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 12:27pm
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
- Date Edited:
7/27/06 12:34pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Blithe
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Kazur, I think we both messed up on our calculations for his maximum lifting capacity. Check again, if you will, but I'm unless I'm just an idiot, I'm seeing numbers in the hundreds of millions for Str 120 and 130.  
EDIT: 209,715,200 tons for Str 120.
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 2:38pm
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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Kazur, I think we both messed up on our calculations for his maximum lifting capacity. Check again, if you will, but I'm unless I'm just an idiot, I'm seeing numbers in the hundreds of millions for Str 120 and 130.
EDIT: 209,715,200 tons for Str 120.
You're not an idiot, it's really hard to calculate.
120:
Heavy Load = 400 thousand tons
Maximum Load = 1 million tons
130:
Heavy Load = 1.6 million tons
Maximum Load = 4 million tons
If his average Force Point result was 10, then he would have a lifting strenght of 140 (resgular 90 + enhanced 50), which would be:
Heavy Load = 6.4 million tons
Maximum Load = 16 million tons
So we were right
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 3:13pm
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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Well, to me playing a super-hero game was more fun if you were playing one you made up for yourself, rather than a stock character like Spider-man or Black Canary. Really, all you needed those character's stats for was if the GM was putting in a cameo appearance, or as a comparison for how powerful your own character was.  
Given that the comic characters are normally having far more adventures than you will adventure sessions, they will constantly be advancing at a greater rate than publishers can keep up with. Especially Marvel characters, since that company likes to completely re-write their history every 5-8 years anyway. They usually also have a spin-off universe every 5-10 years too, which always fails because they put their lower-end artists and story-writers on it, and wonder why the books don't sell. (Anyone remember New Universe? or  Strikeforce: Morituri?  or Impact!?) 
So far, I've never managed to get into a good super-hero game. Not for lack of trying, but it usually seemed that either the GM or the Players (or both) weren't really up to it.
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Fandomar
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 4:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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besides Superheroes rpg has stats and rules for nearly all we ha,ve seen on the comics (with a few exeptions) we have more rules and thnigs like feats for our beloved Star Wars rpg because the characters are weaker than the superheroes and the DC Heroes or marvel had also source of information and adventures for superheroes
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 5:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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MasterKazur posted:
Kazur, I think we both messed up on our calculations for his maximum lifting capacity. Check again, if you will, but I'm unless I'm just an idiot, I'm seeing numbers in the hundreds of millions for Str 120 and 130.
EDIT: 209,715,200 tons for Str 120.
You're not an idiot, it's really hard to calculate.
120:
Heavy Load = 400 thousand tons
Maximum Load = 1 million tons
130:
Heavy Load = 1.6 million tons
Maximum Load = 4 million tons
If his average Force Point result was 10, then he would have a lifting strenght of 140 (resgular 90 + enhanced 50), which would be:
Heavy Load = 6.4 million tons
Maximum Load = 16 million tons
So we were right
Hmm...
For Strength scores not listed, determine the carrying capacity this way: Find the Strength score between 20 and 29 that has the same ones digit as the creatures Strength score. Multiply the figures by four if the creatures Strength is in the 30s, 16 if it's in the 40s, 64 if it's in the 50s, and so on. - RCRB, pg. 127
Continuing that pattern, would it not be...
256 in the 60s, 1024 in the 70s, 4096 in the 80s, 16,384 in the 90s, 65,536 in 100s, 262,144 in the 110s, and 1,048,576 in 120s?
Which would mean:
Str 20, 200 kg; Str 120 = 200kg x 1,048,576 = 209,715,200
...right? 
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 5:50pm
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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By the way, rereading my previous post, I just want to make one thing clear: I'm not trying to belittle the work you're doing. I was only pointing out a problem that I've run into within my experience gaming.
Last time I tried to do this, someone got very upset with me. Seems my experience fencing would be like taking the Inquisition and the Rule of Franco, and calling it the History of Spain. 
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 6:45pm
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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Hmm...
For Strength scores not listed, determine the carrying capacity this way: Find the Strength score between 20 and 29 that has the same ones digit as the creatures Strength score. Multiply the figures by four if the creatures Strength is in the 30s, 16 if it's in the 40s, 64 if it's in the 50s, and so on. - RCRB, pg. 127
Continuing that pattern, would it not be...
256 in the 60s, 1024 in the 70s, 4096 in the 80s, 16,384 in the 90s, 65,536 in 100s, 262,144 in the 110s, and 1,048,576 in 120s?
Which would mean:
Str 20, 200 kg; Str 120 = 200kg x 1,048,576 = 209,715,200
...right?
Wrong
The Core Rulebook for Mutants & Masterminds have the same lifting scores as the Star Wars RCRB, exept it continues to 150 rather than 29.
Thats how I got it.
Well, to me playing a super-hero game was more fun if you were playing one you made up for yourself, rather than a stock character like Spider-man or Black Canary. Really, all you needed those character's stats for was if the GM was putting in a cameo appearance, or as a comparison for how powerful your own character was.
I completely agree.
So far, I've never managed to get into a good super-hero game. Not for lack of trying, but it usually seemed that either the GM or the Players (or both) weren't really up to it.
It's funny you should say that, because me and my players have the same "problem" if you will.
They made their own really cool heroes in the Mutants & Mastermind game, but after 3 sessions we realized that it just wasn't as rewarding as Star Wars.
So we just ended up spending the second half of the 3rd session by duelling against eachother using the stats for the major heroes and villains in the comic book world
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
7/27/06 6:55pm
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
- Date Edited:
7/27/06 6:56pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Blithe
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Oh, I see.
Well... err, yeah: I was right all along, then! 
And what are still doing here anyway? Run along, now. Get to work Pre-Crisis Superman! [Jolee]Shoo, shoo![/Jolee]
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/28/06 5:01am
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
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Blithe posted:
Oh, I see.
Well... err, yeah: I was right all along, then!
And what are still doing here anyway? Run along, now. Get to work Pre-Crisis Superman! [Jolee]Shoo, shoo![/Jolee]
 Just a few more hours now...
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/28/06 10:02am
Subject:
RE: The Man of Steel
- Date Edited:
7/28/06 10:05am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
MasterKazur
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Superman: Male Kryptonian Fringer 2/Scout 3/Noble 15; Init +22 (Dex); Defense 43 (+11 class, +22 Dex); DR 55; Spd 70.000 km, flight 70.000 km; VP/WP 669/70; Atk +39/+34/+29 melee (1d3+30, unarmed) or +31/+26/+21 ranged (8d8, heat-vision); SQ Bonus class skill (Bluff), barter, trailblazing, heart +1, favor +4, inspire greatness, resource access, coordinate +3, invulnerability, heat-vision, speed, super-senses, x-ray vision, super-strength, hyper-breath, immunity, weakness; SV Fort +40, Ref +33, Will +26; SZ M; FP 5; DSP 0; Rep +7; Str 70, Dex 55, Con 70, Int 38, Wis 36, Cha 22.
Equipment: Costume and cape.
Skill: Bluff +19, Computer Use +15, Diplomacy +18, Gather Information +12, Handle Animal +10, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (bureaucracy) +19, Knowledge (history) +19, Knowledge (technology) +20, Listen +21, Pilot +24, Profession (farmer) +16, Profession (journalist) +24, Read/Write All Existing Languages, Speak All Existing Languages, Search +21, Sense Motive +22, Spot +21, Treat Injury +16.
Feats: Contact, Fame, Influence, Iron Will, Perfect Memory, Power Attack, Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Ranged Disarm, Sharp-Eyed, Trustworthy, Weapon Group Proficiencies (blaster pistols, blaster rifles, primitive weapons, simple weapons), Zero-G Training.
Special Qualities: Invulnerability - - Superman’s dense Kryptonian body provides him with a damage reduction of 55.
Heat-Vision - - Superman can emit his body's stores of solar radiation through his eyes causing 8d8 damage.
Speed - - Superman is able to defy gravity and fly at 170 million km/h (2.7 million squares/action) in atmosphere and 25 times the speed of light in space. His running speed is 170 million km/h (70.000 km/action).
Super-Senses - - When Superman makes Listen or Spot checks the DC for the check is at +1 per 100 billion kilometers from him, rather than the usual 4 meters. His super-hearing enables him to hear ultrasonic signals and high and low frequencies and his super-sight enables him to see microscopic details about anything.
X-Ray Vision - - Superman can see through solid objects (except lead) as if they weren’t there. He can make Search and Spot checks through walls, doors ect. The DC for his Spot checks is still modified by distance.
Super-Strength - - Superman has a Strength of 420 for purposes of lifting objects and a +70 bonus to his Grappling checks and Strengths checks for purposes of breaking items.
Hyper-Breath - - Superman can exhale a powerful blast of air, making a Strength check to trip targets within 100 meters of his position.
Immunity - - Superman does not age, and he can does not need to breath oxygen to survive. Hence he can survive in outher space without the aid of a breathing aparatus.
Weakness - - Kryptonite - - Exposure to Kryptonite causes Superman’s cells to deteriorate, similar to radiation poisoning in a human being. Kryptonite causes Superman to lose all of his powers and his Ability Scores are as follows: Str 15, Dex 15, Con 15 (VP/WP 109/15), Int 18, Wis 16, Cha 22.
Every round of exposure Superman must make a Fortitude save DC 18. The damage on a successful save is a 1d2 drain on his Constitution and a 1d3 drain on his Strength. The damage on a failed save is a 1d6 drain on his Constitution, a 1d4 drain on his Strength and a 1d2 drain on his Charisma. This effect will eventually kill Superman when his Constitution score drops to 0.
Removal of the Kryptonite returns Superman’s powers and enables his body to regain lost Ability Points at a rate of one per round.
Magic - - Magical attacks directly effect Superman ignoring his invulnerabilities. Against Magic attacks Superman loses his damage reduction.
I don't even know what to say here!
Exept DON'T use Pre-Crisis Superman in a campaign!
Nobody exept maybe 100 people in the galaxy can hit him, and even if they do no weapon will hurt him.
Even if you get past the INSANE amount of vitality points he has you will need a powerful starship scale laser to hurt him.
I don't even wanna begin to imagine how fast he can fly if he goes full speed.
(enough to reverse the earth rotation maybe )
Nothing, and I mean nothing, even comes cloes to being close, when we're talking speed.
And I don't care if you're Count Dooku using Combat Expertise and total defense, if Superman wants to hit you... odds are he will succeed.
And he hits like a bulk freighter! If he power attacks and hits you'll be out 35 VP (at least), from a single punch!
His heat-vision is the most powerful character scale weapon in the galaxy (that I know of).
It puts the E-Web repeater to shame .
And nothing is gonna get past those Saving Throws. He is just insanely powerful.
Borderline omnipotent.
Pre-crisis Superman was "SUPER" in every sense of the word, hence his high mental Ability Scores.
His skills shouldn't be higher I think, because his power/knowledge really comes from his super powers rather than training. He can now speak every single language in the galaxy.
I shifted around some feats.
He doesn't need Endurance, since he can breath in outer space and has a Fortitude save of +40 or Dodge for obvious reasons.
I gave him Zero-G training which fits really, really well for this Superman.
His Super-Senses are Godlike. Now he can hear a butterfly's heartbeat on the other side of the earth as someone pointed out.
He can also see molecular structures of objects and people.
His Strength is... increased . To say the least.
This version of Superman can litteraly "throw planets around".
The effective lifting strength to lift/move the earth is somewhere between 390-400.
Superman does this easily!
If you expect to defeat this guy, you will need a kryptonite armor and a magic sword.
If you don't have that... the don't even try.
Hope you like him, guys.
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