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Topic:
Rankings to Levels
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
8/8/06 3:09pm
Subject:
Rankings to Levels
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Has anyone figured out a good rank:level ratio for the Alliance/New Republic?
For example, you start as a Level 1 Soldier, you're most likely a private, right? How does it work from then on up?
E_S
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NJOfan215
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
8/8/06 5:39pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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I would think that your average enlisted person wouldn't get heroic levels. The storm troopers don't. Obviously is one of your players is a soldier in the military, he will be a soldier class wise, but for npc's i wouldn't give them heroic levels.
On topic of rank, we have two reference points, jedi knight at level 7, and for argumrnts sake jedi master at level 13. In the GAR obi-wan had a huge army undre his command at the begining of rots, and he was level 13 t that time. I would say level 13 would be equal to a 2 star. I would say that a level 7 character like anakin in the clone wars cartoon(i would he was 7, i think the knighting ceramonies were put on the back burner during the war.) commanded an air group, which would put him a commander or captain in the US Navy.
Correlating leves with ranks is difficult for a few reasons, one, some position have a rank assigned to them for chain of command purposes, like in stargate, jack went from colonel to 2 star in 3 years. Also abilities could play a part in rank as well as experiance.
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
8/8/06 8:31pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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I tie is directly to the character's Command score (based on PER in D6, probablly Cha in D20).
Until that score in higher than 4D, the character won't be an officer. Only exception being fighter pilots and freighter captains, who obviously must be alotted their rank while on board their ships. At 5D, I'd be willing to promote to Lt Commander. At 6D, Captain - Major. At 8D, General or Admiral.
Some templates (Retired Imperial Captain) are automatically officers, but not necessarily GOOD officers with high regard. (They may have received their commisions by playing political games rather than tactics & leadership).
Remember, too, that officers are commisioned by governmental bodies. Jedi are promoted by the Jedi Council. Noble Houses pass on title from birth. These three systems can work together, or conflict. A jedi may be born of High Stature within House Pelagia, be only a LVL 4 Jedi Guardian, and be given commision as a Brigadeer General in the Clone Army.
Luke Skywalker, during RotJ, was only a Lt. Commander.
Jar Jar was a General at the end of TPM.
So, it's up to you. There isn't necessarily a merritocracy with rank.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 1:15am
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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Ender_Sai posted:
Has anyone figured out a good rank:level ratio for the Alliance/New Republic?
For example, you start as a Level 1 Soldier, you're most likely a private, right? How does it work from then on up?
E_S
I think that, as has been noted earlier, anyone with heroic levels is probably not a private, and if they are, not for very long. Most privates would have levels in Thug, not Soldier.
That said, I think the first and most important way to sort characters by rank is not based on levels but is based on some combination of classed, feats, attributes, and overall character concept. It's a little hard to tell at 1st level where someone belongs, so you should probably ask your players where they intend to go with the character, and look at their choices of skills and feats at first level for further insight.
Basically, the starting point for each character as far as rank goes should be determined by what career track their character belongs on. Let's take four different characters, all of whom begin as Level 1 Soldiers:
- Adam's Level 1 Soldier has a combat-oriented Feat (Dodge, Point Blank Shot, etc.). His highest attributes are Dex, Str, and Con. He tells you he's planning on leveling up as a Soldier for the foreseeable future. Adam's character belongs on the NCO track, and he should start as a private or maybe a corporal, and become a sergeant fairly quickly.
- Bobby's Level 1 Soldier has a leadership-oriented Feat (Influence, Rebel Officer Training, Skill Emphasis (Knowledge: Tactics)). His highest attributes are Int and Cha. He tells you he's planning on leveling up as a Noble next level, and alternating between the two until he qualifies for the Officer prestige class. Bobby's character belongs on the command track, and should start as a junior officer fresh out of training.
- Clarissa's Level 1 Soldier has a techie-oriented Feat (Gearhead, Technical Wizard, Skill Emphasis (Repair)), high stats in Intelligence, and maxed out skill points in Computer Use and things like that. She plans on multiclassing with Tech Specialist. Clarissa's should clearly have an enlisted specialist rank.
- Devon's Level 1 Soldier has Starship Operations, high stats in Dex and Intelligence, maxed out Piloting and Computer Use, and is gearing herself towards the Starship Ace prestige class. She should start as a Flight Officer.
- Edward's Level 1 Soldier has a stealth- or survival-oriented Feat (Stealthy, Self-Sufficient), is planning on multiclassing in Scoundrel or Scout, and wants to eventually be an Infiltrator, an Elite Trooper, or a Sharpshooter. He's clearly on the SpecForces track, and probably should start as a junior officer in the SpecForces.
It's more about class than level. Generally, for command responsibilities, you need ranks in Diplomacy and the appropriate Knowledges, a decent Reputation bonus, and feats and class abilities specifically related to command (Inspire Confidence, Resource Access, etc). 9 times out of 10, that's going to mean taking levels in Noble at some point. Characters who don't take levels in Noble are just not going to make any sense on the command track. A 15th level Soldier is probably outranked by a Soldier 1/Noble 1, but the usual wisdom about green officers taking their cues from seasoned NCOs is probably relevant.
Once that's settled, for characters with command responsibilities, I usually go by a rule of thumb that breaks things down into three-level blocks:
* Up to 3rd level, they should have relatively low levels of responsibility, a single starfighter, a squad or platoon of infantry, junior officer duties on a capital ship. (Lieutenant)
* By 6th level, they should have moderate levels of responsibility, such as XO of a starfighter squadron or the leader of a more remote one, a company of infantry, senior officer on a capital ship or command of a minor capital ship. (Army Captain/Naval Commander)
* By 9th level, they should have fairly high levels of responsibility, such as starfighter squadron leader, a regiment of infantry, command of a capital ship. (Colonel/Naval Captain)
* By 12th level, they should have major responsibilities, such as command of a starfighter wing, an army, or a fleet. (General/Admiral)
* By 15th level, they should be at the highest levels of command of their entire faction. (Senior members of Alliance High Command, Imperial Grand Admirals)
* By 18th level, they should be a galaxy-shaking legend and a major historical figure. (Thrawn)
But, of course, these are just guidelines. The needs of the situation, the reputation of the character, etc etc, all play a role.
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Julian Dibbell
"You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat."
Gryph
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Rogue_Thunder
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 2:04am
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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Koohii posted:
Luke Skywalker, during RotJ, was only a Lt. Commander.
IIRC, wasn't Luke granted any rank he chose after the destruction of the first death star? He wanted to remain an anonymous pilot, or continue leading Rogue Squadron, or somesuch, that's why he turned down a General's rank (seems to be the highest rank a Pilot can attain and still remain in Starfighter Corps).
He took the rank of General shortly after RotJ, until he decided training new Jedi was more important and resigned his commission (5 years after RotJ or thereabouts - shortly after Dark Empire)
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 3:07am
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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Splinter of the Mind's Eye by Alan Dean Foster states that while the Rebel Alliance offered Luke any reward he wanted, he asked only that he be allowed to continue to fly X-wings for them.
The Empire Strikes Back radio programme written by Brian Daley has Luke promoted from Lt. to Lt. Commander when a convoy is destroyed en-route to Hoth and the base commander has to fill in the gap in his command structure.
The Radio Programmes by Brian Daley fill in a lot of the material cut from the original scripts and expand existing scenes conciderablly. I highly recommend picking of a set of the CDs. The only down side is the actor who plays Leia is horrible.
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Create happy mediums: Free prozac to all psychics & Jedi
I'm met 6yo adults and 36yo children
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Rogue_Thunder
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 8:11am
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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Ah, once again Master Koohii, you have schooled me in the ways of Star Wars.  
-----signature-----
I'll fly a starship across the universe divide
And when I reach the other side
I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain, but I will remain, and I'll be back again...
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 5:26pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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Yes, well...
It's not like the SW universe is 100% consistent.
And I have no knowledge of NJO and minimal for the prequels (haven't seen the cartoon or RotS yet...) 
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Create happy mediums: Free prozac to all psychics & Jedi
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NJOfan215
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 8:27pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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Watch sith. While it isn't amazing, it is good and does show an important peice of star wars.
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This council has zero tolerance for any sexual deviancy regarding our Jedi Knights.
Go Eagles
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 8:45pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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Avoid, oh god avoid, the CW cartoon.
Consider; Droids could be cartoonish (the elasticity of R2 and 3P0) without being ridiculous. CW? Notsomuch...
E_S
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From sinking sands he stepped into light's embrace.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 10:05pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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Ender_Sai posted:
Avoid, oh god avoid, the CW cartoon.
Consider; Droids could be cartoonish (the elasticity of R2 and 3P0) without being ridiculous. CW? Notsomuch...
E_S, you know I love you like a brother, but the CW cartoons are at the dizzying heights of the EU. I mean, come on, it's Samurai Jack with lightsabers!
Yes, the Jedi powers are turned up to 11 (or 12, or 19) but you have to take that as a stylistic choice rather than getting tweaked about canon and so on and so forth.
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"Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century."
Julian Dibbell
"You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat."
Gryph
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 10:14pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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About 3 years ago, I watched the first 5 episodes of the Droids cartoon with the Alien Prince, and it was bloody awful! Worse, even, than the ewok movies. Just painful beyond words.
Highly mixed reviews on CW cartoon. Saw one episode introducing Assaj Ventris and wasn't impressed (looked like the whole thing was done in Macromedia Flash with a style borrowed from Bullwinkle & Rocky). Also, with episodes that are only 5 minutes, I have to wonder how much story there really is. But, will give it a fair chance by starting from the beginning, when I get arround to it.
Meanwhile, getting back to ranks.
Solo was always "Captain Solo" in spite of his experience and history. It wasn't until RotJ when he finally pledged himself whole-heartedly to the rebellion that he became a general. Odd choice, giving a ground-commander title to someone who has a skillset mainly devoted to flying. Oh wait--it's Lucas, who thinks a destroyer is bigger than a cruiser. Sorry, my mistake.
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Create happy mediums: Free prozac to all psychics & Jedi
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 10:43pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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dizfactor posted:
Ender_Sai posted:
Avoid, oh god avoid, the CW cartoon.
Consider; Droids could be cartoonish (the elasticity of R2 and 3P0) without being ridiculous. CW? Notsomuch...
E_S, you know I love you like a brother, but the CW cartoons are at the dizzying heights of the EU. I mean, come on, it's Samurai Jack with lightsabers!
Yes, the Jedi powers are turned up to 11 (or 12, or 19) but you have to take that as a stylistic choice rather than getting tweaked about canon and so on and so forth.
I think it's my inherent dislike of the prequel era as it stands now that makes me go ewwww at them.
Droid is awful in a sense, but it has a kind of nostalgic value to me. It's in a sense, nice old-school EU.
E_S
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In this truth he knew himself to be.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 11:34pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
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Koohii posted:
Meanwhile, getting back to ranks.
Solo was always "Captain Solo" in spite of his experience and history. It wasn't until RotJ when he finally pledged himself whole-heartedly to the rebellion that he became a general.
Solo was always "Captain Solo" because he's a civilian and the captain of a civilian ship. He never holds the rank of "captain" in the Rebel Alliance, as he's not technically part of the Rebellion until ROTJ, at which point he joins and is immediately given a general's commission.
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"You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat."
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
8/9/06 11:49pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
- Date Edited:
8/9/06 11:53pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Koohii
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Exactly. He has the honorary rank of captain because of the ship he owns. This is separate from any military or social rank. Lucky for him, he didn't have to go through basic training. 
Someone with a starting character who owns his own stock freighter is given the same rank as a character with a full year of gaming (lvl 10 or 250 skill points) who has had her freighter for years and upgraded it to a deadly fighting machine.
Rank and level don't necessarily tie together.
Admiral Ozzel showed no signs of tactical skill or experience. Much more likely he achieved his rank by playing political or bureaucratic games, toadying to win favor, using connections in the old-boy network, school and social ties, and just years of long service.
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Create happy mediums: Free prozac to all psychics & Jedi
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Shadowen
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
9/13/06 9:57pm
Subject:
RE: Rankings to Levels
- Date Edited:
9/13/06 9:58pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Shadowen
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In game terms, though, that would require a lot of Diplomacy, Bluff, Gather Information, and so forth. He might not have much Knowledge (tactics), but he would still have be damn good at the political game to be incompetent while making it to the rank of Admiral.
Just remember: in a poorly designed character, level is not always indicative of all-around power. My own 18th-level Thrawn build would be a joke in personal combat, but you do not want to match wits with him or fight him when he has inferiors to throw at you. Meanwhile, Vader is not a particularly brilliant tactician, though he does have a certain low and brutal cunning (his plan to take on a fleet of 100 enemy ships? Send 200 bigger ships. And keep 100 in reserve), but you don't want to fight him face to face because he'll kill your ass.
In any case, someone of higher rank had either be dazzlingly competent at his job to counteract his lack of social skills (Wing Commander Varth, given a throwaway mention in The Last Command), have a good mix of both technical skill and the ability to get along with superiors and inferiors alike (Luke), or have the connections, social finesse, and just enough ability to fake it if he wants to get and keep the rank.
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