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Topic:
Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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Jedi Merkurian
Title: Games: RPG d20 GM
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
12/28/06 7:31am
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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I created a stat called Aptitude, that Force-sensitives get when the first get the Force-Sensitive feat. Once rolled, you can't "up" it with levels like the other stats. The +/- modifier applies to bonus (or penalty) skill points that can only be used on Force skills, but it's not multiplied by 4 at 1st level; and like Intelligence, the bonus points are not retroactive. Skywalkers get a +2 "racial" bonus on the stat.
Therefore, I'd say that Palpatine & Yoda had an Aptitude of 18, while Luke & Anakin have an Aptitude of 20. A 20 would allow them an extra 5 skill points per level to spend on Force skills.
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
12/28/06 11:06am
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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Thats an insanely great idea Merkurian!
You should change you name to Jedi Master Merkurian for that one! 
Thats brilliant! Love it!
So you roll a d20 when the character is created or...?
and that is you Aptitude score untill you're DEAD!
This could also explaine the reduced Force Skills of Darth Vader after his injuries.
You could get a -2 penalty on your Aptitude score for each limb that is lost.
Anakin would easily qualify for a -10 penalty (each arm, both legs and internal damage).
Do you have a list of the Aptitude of the major film and EU characters?
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Jedi_Matt
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
12/28/06 1:29pm
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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one that I was just thinking of now... like Merkurian's idea. Force Aptitude, roll as you would for an attribute. the attribute bonus you add or subtract from your Force skill rolls?
ie; Aptitude of 18 gives a +4 bonus to force skills
or a negative to VP costs for powers (minimum of 1vp)?
or to add to your Force Point roll total?
just thinking of ways to make it more powerful for Skywalkers
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
12/28/06 1:52pm
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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I like the idea of making the Force Aptitude a Force Skill Bonus...
Good thinking Matt.
Maybe a Force Skill Bonus and in addition a reduction of VP cost, like you said.
This would mean that Anakin being a 20 would get a +5 bonus to all force skills and the ability to use almost any Force Power for 1 VP.
This is a GREAT idea.
And when he is suited-Vader he will have none of these bonuses!
Should this be in addition to the Skywalker bonus to FP? I think it should.
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Jedi_Drizzt
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
12/29/06 3:40am
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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I've remembered one more thing when I read that someone said Skywalkers are the best. That could work. Luke is "the best" miles and miles in radius, he's special is the ordinary surroundings and somehow (the will of the Force) he summons extraordinary events to come to him. And bum! The escape pod crashes on Tatooine, the droids come to him, he meets Obi-Wan Kenobi and his whole life is turned upside down in one huge adventure. Same with Anakin, he's special and he attracts special things. The Jedi come to him, land on Tatooine to repair their ship and decide to take him to Coruscant to start his Jedi training.
A GM should slowly present these special oopportunities to a Skywalker character.
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Jedi Merkurian
Title: Games: RPG d20 GM
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
12/29/06 6:53am
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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MasterKazur posted:
So you roll a d20 when the character is created or...?
and that is you Aptitude score untill you're DEAD!
You'd roll Aptitude just like any other stat. In my game, it's 4d6, and drop the lowest roll. You roll as soon as you take the Force Sensitive feat, which in most cases is 1st level. Once rolled, that's your Aptitude, forever and ever.
posted:
This could also explaine the reduced Force Skills of Darth Vader after his injuries. You could get a -2 penalty on your Aptitude score for each limb that is lost. Anakin would easily qualify for a -10 penalty (each arm, both legs and internal damage).
That's a bit steep, IMO. That would drop his Aptitude down to 10, giving him no bonus or penalty. According to GL, Vader is still pretty frakkin' strong with the Force, just not Emperor-scale. I'd say his Aptitude dropped to about 16.
posted:
Do you have a list of the Aptitude of the major film and EU characters?
Not currently, but if I were to hazard a guess off the top of my head:
20 - Anakin Skywalker, Luke, Jacen, Anakin Solo, maybe Cade Skywalker
19 - Leia, Jaina, maybe Ben Skywalker
18 - Sidious, Yoda, Kyp Durron, Bane
17 - Mara Jade, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu
16 - Vader, Tyranus, Qui-Gon, Maul
Most Force-users would be in the 10-14 range, and I'd put "lightweights" like Tionne or Scout (from Dark Rendezvous) around 8 or 9. Most AgriCorps or ExplorCorps folk would be bottom of the barrel.
Jedi_Matt posted:
the attribute bonus you add or subtract from your Force skill rolls?
ie; Aptitude of 18 gives a +4 bonus to force skills
or a negative to VP costs for powers (minimum of 1vp)?
I thought about the roll bonus also. However, I think that adding it to skill points instead of the rolls better simulates how Anakin, Luke, and Darth Bane were "quick studies." That, and adding any roll bonuses on top of the existing stat mods could be overkill. Likewise with reduced VP costs. Of course, YMMV.
What I have done, though, is allow Aptitude to replace any stat minimums for Force feats. For example, you qualify for Force Mastery with either a Wisdom or Aptitude of 15.
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Minela
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
12/29/06 7:56pm
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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MasterKazur posted:
 Minela! That right there is SuperShadow's work... 
Heh heh... But I agree with you. A character's midichlorian level should have an effect in-game.
But Anakin's relatively low Force Point count, is probably due to the fact that he used alot of them on "selfish" acts during the Clone Wars.
Keep in mind that the wizard stats released were for Darth Vader as of his attack on the Jedi temple. He probably lost alot during that attack in in turn gained Dark Side Points.
The Anakin from the beginning of RotS could have had alot more...
I know, where do you think I got it from? I didn't come up with it myself.
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JoinTheSchwarz
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
12/29/06 8:32pm
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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Minela: SuperShadow
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
12/30/06 7:09am
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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That's a bit steep, IMO. That would drop his Aptitude down to 10, giving him no bonus or penalty. According to GL, Vader is still pretty frakkin' strong with the Force, just not Emperor-scale. I'd say his Aptitude dropped to about 16.
Well Vader would still be a reasonably powerful Force user, represented by his level and ranks in force skills. He just wouldn't have the skywalker bonuses that allows him to surpass the Emperor.
Have you read the RotS novel? The "this is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker forever" thing describes this perfectly.
Not currently, but if I were to hazard a guess off the top of my head:
20 - Anakin Skywalker, Luke, Jacen, Anakin Solo, maybe Cade Skywalker
19 - Leia, Jaina, maybe Ben Skywalker
18 - Sidious, Yoda, Kyp Durron, Bane
17 - Mara Jade, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu
16 - Vader, Tyranus, Qui-Gon, Maul
Most Force-users would be in the 10-14 range, and I'd put "lightweights" like Tionne or Scout (from Dark Rendezvous) around 8 or 9. Most AgriCorps or ExplorCorps folk would be bottom of the barrel.
Hmm... for my campaign I think I will scale this down a bit. The regular Jedi need to be lower in order for the Skywalkers to shine.
An average Jedi Knight wouldn't have any bonuses, and only the most powerful and gifted Jedi would be in the 14-15 range with a +2 bonus. Some People like that Zayne Carrick would be a 6 or 7. This way most player Jedi would be somewhere between -2/+2 to their Force Skills.
+2 being a great talent like Windu and Qui-Gon.
20 - Anakin Episode I & II, Luke Episode IV, V, Leia
18 - Jacen, Jaina, Anakin Solo, Luke VI, Anakin III
17 - Yoda, Kar Vastor
16 - Palpatine
14 - Mace Windu, Qui-Gon
11 - Obi-Wan
9/10 - average Jedi, Post-suit Vader
What I have done, though, is allow Aptitude to replace any stat minimums for Force feats. For example, you qualify for Force Mastery with either a Wisdom or Aptitude of 15.
I really like that one!
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Yoda: You seek Yoda!
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Yoda: Take you to him I will... Ehehe. But now we must eat -- COME! (it's just not as funny after the censor)
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/2/07 9:23pm
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
- Date Edited:
1/2/07 9:24pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ulicus
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MasterKazur posted:
But that only covers their natural talent. They learn quicker. But that doesn't make them the best.
Exactly.
While starting NJO Luke should be better, Anakin is not the best/most powerful at the time of RotS. Of *his* generation, sure... but he's of a different generation to Obi-Wan, Mace and *certainly* Yoda.
He feels the Force more strongly than any other Jedi - this is true, but to put it in the same words Obi-Wan used to Luke, he 'cannot control it' to the same extent as someone like Yoda, Mace or Sidious.
The very fact that he is equal to Obi-Wan Kenobi, third greatest living Jedi in the entire Order after he's had thirteen years of training to Obi's near forty, is all the testament to his power there needs to be.
If Anakin was on Mace or Yoda levels however, he'd not only have *demolished* Obi-Wan on Mustafar, we'd have seen evidence of his Force abilities overwhelming Obi's. The fact that they produced a Force push of equal intensity was to highlight the fact that they were completely and totally equally matched - both in Force and blade ability.
Cyborg Vader is more powerful than RotS Anakin. You think he was just blowing hot air when he told Obi-Wan that he was the master now? Why would he keep waxing lyrical about the power of the dark side unless he'd increased in strength? He's lost a lot of his former potential (60% of it in fact), but RotS Anakin had barely scratched the surface of that potential, so he still had a fair bit to climb until he was at the "80% of the Emperor" that he supposedly is.
Your guitar comparison was very apt. In this context, your teacher is a Mace/Yoda and you're a Skywalker. Sure, Anakin's more talented than they are, but they have the greater mastery over the Force and would still hand him his ass... he's the best/greatest Jedi Knight (in that he's more powerful than most of the masters). The greatest amongst the masters, however, would defeat him.
Had he been given another couple of years of war however, who knows? 
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
1/3/07 1:28am
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
- Date Edited:
1/3/07 1:29am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Koohii
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Jedi_Matt
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
1/3/07 11:28am
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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Koohii posted:
Young, vigorous, energetic talent will always loose to old slimey skill and experience.
Vader and the Emperor would disagree with you 
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
1/6/07 7:44am
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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If Anakin was on Mace or Yoda levels however, he'd not only have *demolished* Obi-Wan on Mustafar
Fact is that Anakin actually is on their level. Not experience wise, but power wise. Both Obi-Wan and Mace acknowledge this.
Cyborg Vader is more powerful than RotS Anakin. You think he was just blowing hot air when he told Obi-Wan that he was the master now?
Yes the PT Vder is more powerful due to more experience and stronger physique. His Force Powers are probably about the same as RotS Anakin, if not slightly weaker (and keep in mind that Anakin hadn't even reached half of his potential at that time).
In this context, your teacher is a Mace/Yoda and you're a Skywalker.
Yes. Anakin Skywalker of Episode II 
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 2:28am
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
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MasterKazur posted:
Fact is that Anakin actually is on their level. Not experience wise, but power wise. Both Obi-Wan and Mace acknowledge this.
'Fact is?' 
No, he's not. Mace Windu would cripple RotS Anakin in a duel, as would Yoda. Sure, he's the "most powerful", but his ability to channel and control that power is not on par with Mace or Yoda.
In terms of what he's *actualised*, he's Obi-Wan's equal. That's still amazing, coming in joint third, but he's not a Mace or Yoda as of RotS.
I like the idea of introducing an "aptitude" attribute, but there is no need for Anakin to be souped up to Mace/Yoda levels in the RPG.
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MasterKazur
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 8:18am
Subject:
RE: Ways to incorporate the Skywalker Bloodline
- Date Edited:
1/10/07 8:22am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
MasterKazur
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Ulicus posted:
MasterKazur posted:
Fact is that Anakin actually is on their level. Not experience wise, but power wise. Both Obi-Wan and Mace acknowledge this.
'Fact is?'
No, he's not. Mace Windu would cripple RotS Anakin in a duel, as would Yoda. Sure, he's the "most powerful", but his ability to channel and control that power is not on par with Mace or Yoda.
In terms of what he's *actualised*, he's Obi-Wan's equal. That's still amazing, coming in joint third, but he's not a Mace or Yoda as of RotS.
That's your opinion, I'm afraid.
And "more powerful" means: better overall, not: more potential.
Obi-Wan acknowledges that Anakin is "as powerful as anyone who has ever been on the council". This includes Mace and Yoda.
Mace claims Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi alive and still growing stronger.
The RotS novel describes Anakin as "the best there has ever been"
Fact is (yes, fact is) that anything Mace or Obi-Wan can do, Anakin can do... and sometimes do it better. He feels and channels and uses the Force to a degree that no one even comes close to. And he's only 23... He could have become the most powerful being in the history of the galaxy!
Anakin is not Obi-Wan's equal. He by far exeed him power wise. This come from George Lucas himself.
Anakin Skywalker from RotS is arguably the most dangerous man in the galaxy... to anyone but Obi-Wan. Kenobi knows Anakin. He knows how he fights, how he thinks, how he moves.
Obi-Wan is forced to remain on the defensive the entire duel and doesn't really beat Anakin in outright saber combat. He out-thinks Anakin and emerges victorious. Had Obi-Wan simply been some other Jedi, with Obi-Wans skill and power level, Anakin would have butchered him.
For Gods sake, man... Anakin killed the leading lightsaber instructor of the Jedi order with ONE HAND!
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Yoda: Take you to him I will... Ehehe. But now we must eat -- COME! (it's just not as funny after the censor)
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