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Topic:
Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/14 11:29am
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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Force Lightning=Evil=Darkside.
Same with TK Injure/kill.
No two ways about it.
yes, the Dark Side is like any other addiction: Once you're hooked, even if you clean up, it's still there, nagging at the back of your mind. The later Dresden Files books had a neat parallel when the main character has an evil entity lurking in the back of his mind, constantly offering him power and tempting him with the occasional boost or assistance.
Look how hard your own bad habits are to break.
Now, do I like a game mechanic that takes control away: not really. The one exception is the D6 dark-side seduction. Once the DM and Dice determine that your character has gone to the Dark Side, that character is forever an NPC. If it was force sensative, your next character cannot be force sensative until it has defeated the previous (house rule).
It can be a lot of fun to start immitating the way someone else has played a character, then tweek it & exagerate to show the corruption of the dark side.
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inkpenavenger
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:55pm
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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I'll say again: The main purpose of my rule is to prevent calculated METAGAMING use of the dark side rules. If you read the article I posted from Wizards, the rule about rolling random DSPs gained from a transgression might be more appealing. With that rule, the choice is still entirely the player's, but he won't know how many DSPs he'll gain for it. Therefore, he runs a greater risk of going dark and losing his character to NPC status each time he chooses the dark side.
Also, regardless of whether you consider the dark side an external force seeking to corrupt people, or the internal struggles of self-justification and ends-justify-the-means-ness, the abstract rule of the DSP covers it. With my rule, the Dark Side vs Wisdom check can represent a character's attempt to resist the dark side as a force, or it can represent the character's willingness to justify an evil act to himself. The more dark a character becomes, the more likely it becomes that he will remian dark.
I don't think I made this clear either: With my rule in place, I don't turn PCs into NPCs when they go dark. To me the 50-50 shot that they'll do the wrong thing all the time is enough. It also isn't impossible to perform dramatic heroism under my rule. I'm not sure how the game designers expect a player to get his character to perform an act of dramatic heroism if he/she has given the character up to GM control.
(I'm loving this debate!  This is one of the best I've ever seen on this board!)
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/15 12:32am
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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inkpenavenger posted:
Also, regardless of whether you consider the dark side an external force seeking to corrupt people, or the internal struggles of self-justification and ends-justify-the-means-ness, the abstract rule of the DSP covers it.
I always saw it as both.
Yeah, this is way I stick to an antiquated system that is out of print: I know the rules and they aren't in dispute.
Oh, and also why I have so many house rules too, I guess... Maybe we should revive the House Rules thread...
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Jedi_Matt
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 1:11pm
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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Koohii posted:
Force Lightning=Evil=Darkside.
Same with TK Injure/kill.
No two ways about it.
yes, the Dark Side is like any other addiction: Once you're hooked, even if you clean up, it's still there, nagging at the back of your mind. The later Dresden Files books had a neat parallel when the main character has an evil entity lurking in the back of his mind, constantly offering him power and tempting him with the occasional boost or assistance.
Look how hard your own bad habits are to break.
Now, do I like a game mechanic that takes control away: not really. The one exception is the D6 dark-side seduction. Once the DM and Dice determine that your character has gone to the Dark Side, that character is forever an NPC. If it was force sensative, your next character cannot be force sensative until it has defeated the previous (house rule).
It can be a lot of fun to start immitating the way someone else has played a character, then tweek it & exagerate to show the corruption of the dark side.
Wahey!
The Dark Side offers power, and to the weak it's a drug. I think a Will save could be a more appropriate opposing roll to Wisdom but I don't wanna open that can of worms at this moment in time.
Wookiee's have the berserker ability which, in D6, required a willpower roll to break out of, I don't see this as being any different.
If you don't want your character to slide down the slippery slope, stop playing with fire!
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Excellence - "'Cause some American-accent informed me Kun is Koon and Yun is Yoon doesn't mean I'm going to Megazord myself into robotic obediance."
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inkpenavenger
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
5/15 6:16pm
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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Jedi_Matt posted:
Wahey!
The Dark Side offers power, and to the weak it's a drug. I think a Will save could be a more appropriate opposing roll to Wisdom but I don't wanna open that can of worms at this moment in time.
Wookiee's have the berserker ability which, in D6, required a willpower roll to break out of, I don't see this as being any different.
If you don't want your character to slide down the slippery slope, stop playing with fire!
In Saga Edition there is no Will save. There is a Will defense rating, but an Ability check alone would never be able to beat it at higher levels.
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JoinTheSchwarz
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/16 1:07am
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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Jedi_Matt posted:
If you don't want your character to slide down the slippery slope, stop playing with fire!
What if I want my character to slide down said slope because, after all, Star Wars is a redemption tale and that's exactly what I want to play? I don't want that choice to be taken from my hands. I have Call of Cthulhu for corruption and craziness, thanks.
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inkpenavenger
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
5/16 3:21am
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
- Date Edited:
5/16 3:24am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
inkpenavenger
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How are you going to choose for your character to redeem himself if he's become an NPC? My rule at least leaves the character in the player's hands.
Another film example: At the end of ROTJ, Vader's Wisdom check beat his dark side check and he decided to save his son.
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Revan sounds like a girl's name anyway...
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JoinTheSchwarz
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/16 4:45am
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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I don't like dark side characters becoming NPCs. I really hated that from D6.
But I like even less Vader's defining moment being just a matter of rolling 17 or higher!
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jenna010986
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
5/16 9:37am
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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inkpenavenger posted:
How are you going to choose for your character to redeem himself if he's become an NPC? My rule at least leaves the character in the player's hands.
Another film example: At the end of ROTJ, Vader's Wisdom check beat his dark side check and he decided to save his son.
Yeah, i agree with you..It is better to leave the character in the player's hands.
That would become more challenging...
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Jedi_Matt
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/16 10:58am
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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JoinTheSchwarz posted:
Jedi_Matt posted:
If you don't want your character to slide down the slippery slope, stop playing with fire!
What if I want my character to slide down said slope because, after all, Star Wars is a redemption tale and that's exactly what I want to play? I don't want that choice to be taken from my hands. I have Call of Cthulhu for corruption and craziness, thanks.
Then like I said above, use a different rule based on what angle you want to take on it. The rule is to stop metagamers not deep roleplaying. What I'm saying is use what suits the game. For me personally, I like that rule, end of.
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Excellence - "'Cause some American-accent informed me Kun is Koon and Yun is Yoon doesn't mean I'm going to Megazord myself into robotic obediance."
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/21 11:26am
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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JoinTheSchwarz posted:
Jedi_Matt posted:
If you don't want your character to slide down the slippery slope, stop playing with fire!
What if I want my character to slide down said slope because, after all, Star Wars is a redemption tale and that's exactly what I want to play? I don't want that choice to be taken from my hands. I have Call of Cthulhu for corruption and craziness, thanks.
Then repent before you get your 7th DSP! 
Or, your next character can try to bring the old one back when they meet up.
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Create happy mediums: Free prozac to all psychics & Jedi
I'm met 6yo adults and 36yo children
Still working toward Ni-Kyu Go Ju Ryu
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Bandorak
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
6/11 5:02pm
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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Some of the best campains I have in memory are of the bad guy getting his life back in order from the mess he made.
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Koohii
Title: Games: RPG d6 GM
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
6/11 9:37pm
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
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WEG D6 1st ed "Failed Jedi" template.
2nd ed "Ex-Imperial Commando"
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Still working toward Ni-Kyu Go Ju Ryu
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
6/18 9:42am
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
- Date Edited:
6/18 9:43am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Blithe
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You have to love the "Failed Jedi" template, paired-up in a campaign party with the "Quixotic Jedi," given that they are pretty much polar opposites, though both are more than a little crazy. Good times.
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JoinTheSchwarz
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
6/18 9:52am
Subject:
RE: Saga Edition Dark Side Rules
- Date Edited:
6/18 9:53am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
JoinTheSchwarz
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Heh. Tarus, my Failed Jedi, used to call our party's Quixotic Jedi "the pest". Oh, and he used to call me "my young apprentice".
Good times, good times...
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