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Topic:
KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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Sithistorian
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
3/9 11:26pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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Jango10 posted:
If he was doing it out of the good of the galaxy. Then I don't think he fully embraced the darkside.
"The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves."
It makes sense to me that Revan did all those things for himself. Maybe he thought he was doing it for the good of the galaxy, but he wasn't. He was just a power hungary Sith Lord.
These two views look consistent.
I) Revan fell to the Darkside during the Mandalorian wars and was motivated only by power. He fully embraced the Darkside. He was a true Sith Lord. The reason he tried to maintain the infrastructure of the planets he conquered (after turning on the Republic) was because, a) there's no point in ruling over a demolished galaxy and b) because it was necessary to defend against the True Sith he perceived to be a threat. Kriea was simply mistaken about Revan's true intentions.
II) Revan sacrificed himself to the Darkside in order to protect the galaxy. He stayed true to himself (as Kriea suggests) by maintaining his intention to protect the galaxy. He maintained the infrastructure of the planets he conquered so it was stable enough to defend against the True Sith. He may not have "fully" embraced the Darkside but this doesn't mean he was not himself a true Sith (he was like Vader in this regard).
There does seem to be a tension between saying that Revan had this core good intention of protecting the galaxy and "fully" embracing the Darkside. But it's not so clear to me what exactly is meant by "fully embracing the Darkside" and I regret using the phrase. What does seem clear to me is the following disjunction: Either a) you can fully embrace the Darkside yet have a core goodness to you (Vader) or b) you can fail to fully embrace the Darkside yet still be considered a Sith Lord (Vader). Vader either "fully" embraced the Darkside or he did not. If he did then a) is correct. If he didn't then b) is correct. Since I envision Revan as similar to Vader in that he had this core goodness to him I see no inconsistency in either holding a) that Revan fully embraced the Darkside yet had a core goodness in him or b) didn't fully embrace the Darkside but was still a Sith Lord.
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Oissan
Title: FanForce CR
GSFF North
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
3/10 3:28am
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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Jango10 posted:
Perhaps Revan wasn't pretending to be a Sith to lure out the True Sith, but maybe while he was conducting the Jedi Civil War, he was really taking orders from the True Sith. Just as the Mandalorians were taking orders from the True Sith during the Mandalorian War. Revan's memory was erased, but he later got it all back. I would assume since he has his full memories of his turn with the Darkside, he also remembers the true Sith, and the dangers they pose. Now good, he goes to look for them.
I think that is much better than Revan's story entirely being a facade.
Quite frankly, I think that makes his story far worse. Instead of being an extremely powerful person, who is cunning and can see the truth behind certain events, he is a puppet to the true Sith. That turns him from a wise character into a stupid hack.
I can't see how his story would be a facade either. He wanted to protect the galaxy, whether he is light or dark is of no importance to him. It's not like he was only acting dark, he was a darksider, but he kept his eyes on his true goal, like Palpatine did. That's what makes him smart, the reason why he wouldn't have failed, unlike all the other Sith who simply lost sight of what they should have done.
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Strika23
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
3/10 6:16am
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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I_AM_GEEK posted:
1up has this
After BioWare and LucasArts made a deal last year to work together, the internet was ablaze with speculation about a new Star Wars MMO in the works. It makes sense considering the popularity of the Knights of the Old Republic series from BioWare and the much poorer status among fans of the non-BioWare Star Wars Galaxies. We more recently reported that the game was in fact a new MMO set in the KOTOR framework, a claim that was quickly denied by Electronic Arts.
Today, a tipster contacted 1UP with portions of a script for what was said to be a "Star Wars online" game. The script's description of the game reads:
"This is a role-playing game set in the historical past of the Star Wars universe. Jedi and Sith battle across the galaxy with the power of the Force and are joined by soldiers, politicians and nobles. Players must choose the destinies of heroes and villains in a thrilling and dangerous universe."
Historical past? Jedi and Sith battling across the galaxy? To we Star Wars nerds, that sounds quite a bit like the "Old Republic" timeline, which BioWare Senior Writer Drew Karpyshyn helped flesh out with the KOTOR series and by penning the Darth Bane novels.
The script goes on to show an exchange between the player and a character named Fuse, a naive bomb designer. The portions of the script that we received are fairly heavy with dialog, which isn't typical for an MMORPG, but it does read very much like a script to a KOTOR game. This could mean that the two projects are still separate. On the other hand, the game was described to the tipster as an MMO, and "heavy dialog" is practically BioWare's calling card.
1UP contacted LucasArts about the script pages we saw, but unsurprisingly their response was not forthcoming: ""We don't have any comment beyond what we've already announced."
This isn't quite a smoking gun blaster yet, and our contact isn't Deep Throat; but the script looked legitimate and the style and tone of it shares a lot in common with the BioWare games we already know, including the more recent (but fairly similar) Mass Effect. We'll keep you posted as more news surfaces.
Very interesting. I find it even more interesting that lucasarts "cannot comment", if it was not in the works they would just flat out deny it no?
I think theres two seperate projects in the work for KOTOR. One will be the last installment of the trilogy and well get an online MMO to boot. Or perhaps just one? Who knows, either way I want some sort of closure on the series! Hope its a RPG first then an MMO.
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/10 1:03pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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Sithistorian posted:
Jango10 posted:
If he was doing it out of the good of the galaxy. Then I don't think he fully embraced the darkside.
"The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves."
It makes sense to me that Revan did all those things for himself. Maybe he thought he was doing it for the good of the galaxy, but he wasn't. He was just a power hungary Sith Lord.
These two views look consistent.
I) Revan fell to the Darkside during the Mandalorian wars and was motivated only by power. He fully embraced the Darkside. He was a true Sith Lord. The reason he tried to maintain the infrastructure of the planets he conquered (after turning on the Republic) was because, a) there's no point in ruling over a demolished galaxy and b) because it was necessary to defend against the True Sith he perceived to be a threat. Kriea was simply mistaken about Revan's true intentions.
II) Revan sacrificed himself to the Darkside in order to protect the galaxy. He stayed true to himself (as Kriea suggests) by maintaining his intention to protect the galaxy. He maintained the infrastructure of the planets he conquered so it was stable enough to defend against the True Sith. He may not have "fully" embraced the Darkside but this doesn't mean he was not himself a true Sith (he was like Vader in this regard).
There does seem to be a tension between saying that Revan had this core good intention of protecting the galaxy and "fully" embracing the Darkside. But it's not so clear to me what exactly is meant by "fully embracing the Darkside" and I regret using the phrase. What does seem clear to me is the following disjunction: Either a) you can fully embrace the Darkside yet have a core goodness to you (Vader) or b) you can fail to fully embrace the Darkside yet still be considered a Sith Lord (Vader). Vader either "fully" embraced the Darkside or he did not. If he did then a) is correct. If he didn't then b) is correct. Since I envision Revan as similar to Vader in that he had this core goodness to him I see no inconsistency in either holding a) that Revan fully embraced the Darkside yet had a core goodness in him or b) didn't fully embrace the Darkside but was still a Sith Lord.
How about:
You can fully embrace the Darkside and become totally evil. Vader did not show a shred of compassion until he turned back to the light. Vader had good intentions when he turned to the Darkside, but those good intentions quickly left his mind.
The same thing may have happened with Revan. Maybe he had good intentions in trying to protect the galaxy from the "True" Sith, but he was consumed by the Darkside afterwards.
That seems to fit to me. That seems to fit in more with Option I you presented.
Oissan posted:
Quite frankly, I think that makes his story far worse. Instead of being an extremely powerful person, who is cunning and can see the truth behind certain events, he is a puppet to the true Sith. That turns him from a wise character into a stupid hack.
I would rather have a pure evil badass henchman than someone who seems to be evil but really has a good heart. But who knows, we all could be wrong.
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McCain/Palin '08
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Sithistorian
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
3/10 2:50pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
- Date Edited:
3/10 2:51pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Sithistorian
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Jango10 posted:
How about:
You can fully embrace the Darkside and become totally evil. Vader did not show a shred of compassion until he turned back to the light. Vader had good intentions when he turned to the Darkside, but those good intentions quickly left his mind.
Yes this seems to be another option.
III) Revan sacrifices himself to the Darkside with the initial intent of protecting the galaxy (here the intent is also altruistic). He fully embraces the Darkside and is eventually consumed by it becoming a Sith Lord. He stays true to himself in the sense that he maintains his intention to protect the galaxy (but now the intent is not altruistic it is selfish; he wants to protect it because he wants to control it).
This view coheres with what Kriea says (from a certain point of view) and it coheres with him giving into the Darkside fully. I suppose, without further data, it boils down to a personal choice on how we want to view Revan. I still think, with Oissan, that Revan is a more complex and interesting character on view II. This may be because I, like Palpatine, don't think there really is a Darkside and a Lightside; rather there is just the Force and how one chooses to use it and let it use you. This allows, it seems to me, much more complex character intentions for "Darkside" users.
One further remark: It seems to me clear that Anakin did show compassion and even remorse as a Darth Vader. We see Vader crying on Mustafar, we know he felt pain at the loss of Pademe, and he, as I recall though I don't remember the source, was against slavery.
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/10 3:21pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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Sithistorian posted:
Jango10 posted:
How about:
You can fully embrace the Darkside and become totally evil. Vader did not show a shred of compassion until he turned back to the light. Vader had good intentions when he turned to the Darkside, but those good intentions quickly left his mind.
Yes this seems to be another option.
III) Revan sacrifices himself to the Darkside with the initial intent of protecting the galaxy (here the intent is also altruistic). He fully embraces the Darkside and is eventually consumed by it becoming a Sith Lord. He stays true to himself in the sense that he maintains his intention to protect the galaxy (but now the intent is not altruistic it is selfish; he wants to protect it because he wants to control it).
This view coheres with what Kriea says (from a certain point of view) and it coheres with him giving into the Darkside fully. I suppose, without further data, it boils down to a personal choice on how we want to view Revan. I still think, with Oissan, that Revan is a more complex and interesting character on view II. This may be because I, like Palpatine, don't think there really is a Darkside and a Lightside; rather there is just the Force and how one chooses to use it and let it use you. This allows, it seems to me, much more complex character intentions for "Darkside" users.
One further remark: It seems to me clear that Anakin did show compassion and even remorse as a Darth Vader. We see Vader crying on Mustafar, we know he felt pain at the loss of Pademe, and he, as I recall though I don't remember the source, was against slavery.
But by the time of the OT, Vader showed no signs of being a compassionate human being.
But I do believe Palpatine saw two sides to the Force, hence why he turned Anakin to the "Darkside" and tried to turn Luke to the "Darkside".
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McCain/Palin '08
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Oissan
Title: FanForce CR
GSFF North
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
3/10 3:22pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
- Date Edited:
3/10 3:24pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Oissan
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Jango10 posted:
I would rather have a pure evil badass henchman than someone who seems to be evil but really has a good heart. But who knows, we all could be wrong.
Vader was a pure evil badass henchman, if you actually want to consider him pure evil. There would be absolutely nothing evil nor badass about Revan being someone elses pawn. That's like turning Palpatine into the henchman of another Sith Lord, it's simply not worth it and doesn't fit into the story.
Maul fits your bill of a "pure evil badass henchman", yet he was neither as evil nor as badass as Vader, who had some good left in him. So what exactly would make a dumbed down Revan better than a cunning and scheming one?
Vader definately had something good left in him all the time, else he wouldn't have saved Luke. Why should Revan be any different?
You can be as evil as it gets and still have something good to fight for. If Vader didn't show the good inside him, neither did Revan, so what's your point?
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/10 3:39pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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Oissan posted:
Vader definately had something good left in him all the time, else he wouldn't have saved Luke. Why should Revan be any different?
You can be as evil as it gets and still have something good to fight for. If Vader didn't show the good inside him, neither did Revan, so what's your point?
The point is the character's actions. Vader was pure evil. He did not show a shred of compassion, not until Luke turned him.
This whole theory (from the initial post that I replied to) was based on that even though Revan was a Sith, all of his actions were just for the good of the galaxy. I don't want my villian (I know he's not the villian anymore) to be working for the good of the galaxy.
I can go with the theory that he had good intentions (save the galaxy) in turning to the Darkside, just as Vader once had good intentions (save Padme) in turning to the Darkside. I'd also like to think that just has Vader soon abandoned any good intentions he once had, Revan did the same.
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"I love the smell of Napalm in the morning."
McCain/Palin '08
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Gonk
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
3/11 3:29pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
- Date Edited:
3/11 3:48pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Gonk
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nm
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Eternity85
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
3/13 5:52am
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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Revan did everything with the best intention, but as the dark side started to consume him, he was lost. It was Bastila, and the Jedi who gave him a new chance to do what he set out to do,
they gave him the opportunety to finish what he started.
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Live life as if your were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
- Gandhi
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darth_nemisis
Title: Host:
Acolytes of Darkness
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
3/16 8:58pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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Drew Karpyshyn posted:
Also, I’ll be updating my SW Blog next week sometime, so go ahead and check that out around Wednesday or Thursday for more info about what I’m working on now. I’ll also be addressing some rumors about certain BioWare projects… but you might not like the answers I give.
This is according to his Blog on his website. Not looking good. 
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 ~Dark Lord - Acolytes of Darkness (SWC)~ My new homepage! http://www.aaronnemisis.com !~!~stormBoards now available~!~! http://stormboards.aaronnemisis.com/
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LottDodd
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
3/21 1:14pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
- Date Edited:
3/21 1:28pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
LottDodd
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Here it is From DreWK Just Minutes Ago.....
He's evasive in a comedic way, but I think his denials only lend creedence to our obsesiveness. I think it is in developement as we speak.
DrewK
by: karpyshyn
date posted: Mar 21, 2008 1:07 PM
Tales from the Dark Side
Wow - I can't believe how much time has gone by since my last post.
Since then I've finished off Mass Effect: Ascension, the sequel novel to Mass Effect: Revelation (released summer of 2008), and I've taken a much needed vacation to the island of St. Lucia (highly recommended - check out a restaurant in Rodney Bay called "The Edge").
I returned to find Revelation, the latest Legacy of the Force novel - not to be confused with the Mass Effect novel I wrote - had debuted at #1 on the New York Times bestseller list. (Congrats to Karen Traviss on that.)
And, finally, I've seen a storm of rumors and speculation sweep across the internet.
This isn't much of a surprise: the web is a breeding ground for misinformation and half-truths. But I figured I'd come and give everyone an udate about what's going on with me, and try to clear up some confusion about some upcoming projects - both my own, and BioWare's. I figure the easiest way to do this is a short little Q&A, based on the e-mails that have been coming into my website.
Q: What are you working on now?
A: Glad you asked! On the video game front, I'm the lead writer for Mass Effect 2, and BioWare is already churning hard on the sequel to our award winning game. On the novel front, I'm eagerly awaiting the spring/summer release of Rule of Two in paperback and Mass Effect: Ascension. I'm also trying to finish up my own original fantasy novel so I can send it out to some agents and publishers.
Q: Any plans for another Bane novel?
A: I'd love to do a third Bane novel. However, there are no official plans yet. Ultimately that decision is made by Lucas and Random House/Del Rey, based on their publishing schedule. From the sales of the first two novels I'm pretty confident they'll want to do another, but for now I just have to cross my fingers and wait.
Q: What about writing other types of Star Wars novels?
A: It's something I'd be interested in, but as of today there are still no official plans in place. If anything changes, I'll post updates on the NEWS section of my website.
Q: What about all these KOTOR 3 rumors I've been hearing?
A: Rumors are just that - rumors. Don't believe everything you read on the net.
Q: But I heard Lucas and BioWare had signed some kind of deal...
A: Yep, they did. But no details are released yet.
Q: Come on, it's got to be KOTOR 3 right?
A: I can't comment. Just let it go. You'll find out the details in due time. You'll just have to wait.
Q: Okay, fine. What about conventions and book signings? Anything planned?
A: Nothing specific. I want to try and get out to do some signings this summer; I'm hoping Del Rey will send me on a book tour to promote the paperback for Rule of Two and the release of Mass Effect: Ascension. (Hint, hint!) But nothing's on the table yet. As soon as I hear anything, I'll post it on my website and here on my blog.
Q: Seems like you're not really telling us anything.
A: Yeah, well... sometimes life is like that.
Q: I bet you don't even know anything about the BioWare and Lucas Arts deal!
A: I know a bit. But I can't talk about it.
Q: So what are you working on at BioWare right now?
A: Like I mentioned before, I'm the lead writer for Mass Effect 2.
Q: So is somebody else doing the Star Wars project?
A: I never said BioWare was doing another Star Wars project.
Q: Whatever. BioWare + Lucas Arts = Star Wars. We all know that.
A: Lucas has a bunch of other stuff in the pipes, too. The new Indy movie is coming out... look, I really can't say anything about unreleased projects.
Q: I heard Electronic Arts showed a slide at a shareholder's meeting that said BioWare was working on a new KOTOR.
A: That slide was a reference to our work on the original KOTOR. The purpose was to show shareholder's the kind of potential BioWare brings to the table, since we're now part of EA.
Q: But I saw on all these gaming websites that KOTOR 3 was in the works!A: You shouldn't believe speculation and rumors. Seriously, just let this go. I will not comment on unreleased projects!
Q: Okay, okay. One last question. I heard about this BioWare MMORPG...
A: What about it?
Q: Is it Star Wars?
A: This interview's over!
-----signature-----
This is Outrageous!!!
BENEVOLENT ELDER-STATESMAN of the FIGS
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SionsBrother
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
3/21 10:01pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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I agree, after this interview I think it may very well be in the works.
-----signature-----
"I did it all for the Wookiees" - Jolee Bindo
I do not think logically or outside the box
"Time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment because
they'll never come again." - Jean-Luc Picard
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Oissan
Title: FanForce CR
GSFF North
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
3/22 4:10am
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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Unless Bioware and LucasArts have decided to flat out lie about everything, it sure isn't in development at Bioware.
Why would LucasArts say that they indeed have a project with Bioware but it has nothing whatsoever to do with KOTOR?
If it would be KOTOR, they just wouldn't have said anything at all, like they usually do. No need to lie when there is no reason for it.
And why would someone from Bioware say that he can definately talk about them not working on KOTOR because they don't work on KOTOR, while not being able to actually comment on the projects they are working on?
Drew Karpyshyn simply can't talk about anything right now. One can't just assume things just because a person who might be involved can't talk about it. Things like that have been tried for the last few years and never did the comments turn into what some people expected.
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Eternity85
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
3/22 8:25am
Subject:
RE: KOTOR 3 Speculation, hopes, discussion. *Contains Spoilers*
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I still dont understand Bioware, KOTOR is one of the greatest achievements within the gaming community ever. (IMHO) They could not make the sequal, although OE did a ok job, it was in my mind a mistake. And now its the third and possibly the last one, and we dont even know if Bioware or anyone will ever make it. This is something i will never understand.
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