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Topic:
Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
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Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
3/11 1:08pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
- Date Edited:
3/11 1:18pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
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IGN's review of the "Bring Down the Sky" expansion. They love it.
Also, the Halo 3 Heroic Map Pack costs around 800 MS Points, which makes the sheer value of everything BioWare has crammed into this content (for 400 points) pretty damn awesome. They went way, way beyond the (pardon pun) call of duty with this one.
Considering I've been spending upwards of 500-800 points for individual Rock Band song-pack downloads on Live, I didn't even blink when I pressed the "Install" button.
If this is the first (and "least") of the DLC for this game, I can't wait to see what they've got up their sleeves for the inter-sequel downloads with even longer developmental lead-time at their disposal.
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against breeding, taste, intelligence, and humanity itself; and very few people appreciate the effort."
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Maulfly
Title: Moderator Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
3/11 5:38pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
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I just started playing ME a few days ago and am really enjoying it so far. Sounds like I'll need to go ahead and download the new content, too.
Once you've downloaded the new content, is there a particular place or timeframe in the game that you access the new assignment?
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"Does that boy have a death wish, or is he just...'special'?"-Roddy semi-cranky old farts' home resident Grand Instigator Owner/ball and chain of GrandAdmiralStrife...   http://www.austinfanforce.org
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Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
3/11 6:38pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
- Date Edited:
3/11 6:45pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
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Yeah, basically at any point after you've taken command of the Normandy from Anderson (within the first five hours or so), and before you head to Ilos for the final smackdown with Saren and the Sovereign. Also, if you're at a save-point prior to having to steal the ship back, you'll probably end up having to wait until you can access the galactic map there again to head to Terra Nova.
Some things I'd love to see next time:
- Squad VA. (Next time you get the actors into the studio, at least give them some more banter that you can put in during future DLCs, please. It'd be even better to have relevant banter, but any banter is great.)
- It would be nice to have a "DLC-based" item set of sorts in the global inventory. Don't go overboard on the stats, but maybe go for an "at-a-glance," appearance-oriented thing. (I know we'll be hearing from the stat-hounds on that one.)
- Double-check/triple-check those pathing and geometry bugs -- I had a couple of people get stuck in the environment during the last scene, and my 'toon got stuck in the terrain outside the main area at one point while my chick was trying to snipe. (I could load up a game to get myself unstuck, and I was able to shoot the buttholes stuck in the geometry, thankfully, so it wasn't game-breaking bug badness.)
- Fill up the "western" side of the Milky Way galaxy map...it's pretty empty. Unless they're saving this for the sequels. (Aren't the Skyllian Verge and Geth space supposed to be out there?)
- A Mako shield-regen buff that allows the shields to rebuild faster, please. (I'll probably always request this particular thing until it gets implemented.)
Something else to consider for all future games and DLC:
It would definitely be nice to see the planet missions be more filled out like this one was. Also, how hard would it be to make story-oriented things show up in Shepard's cabin on the Normandy (when appropriate)? I'm not saying we should get banners and flags and medals to hang in the cabin every time we save someone's skin (or scalp someone), but adding some personality to the cabin via story-oriented awards would be fun.
Oh, and BioWare? Next time, please tell us what story-prereqs we'll need in place to play through future DLC. I'm keeping a pre-Ilos save around for each character now -- seems like many folks were caught flatfooted by the storyline requirements for this expansion. Some interrim activities, perhaps, would work.
Also, I was wondering: Did the developers intend to make an allusion between the Batarians and the Palestinians (in regard to their justifications for terrorism, based upon having land they considered "theirs" taken from them), or am I out of my damn mind?
If so, does that make Shepard a space-Israeli?
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"Pronouncing the first 'r' in 'February' is like making a homemade seaQuest DSV uniform -- it's a crime
against breeding, taste, intelligence, and humanity itself; and very few people appreciate the effort."
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chiss_man
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
3/11 9:33pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
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1. Squad VA. (Next time you get the actors into the studio, at least give them some more banter that you can put in during future DLCs, please. It'd be even better to have relevant banter, but any banter is great.)
Agreed. I'd expand that to enemies as well, unless everyone else still likes hearing various combinations of "Enemy is everywhere!" and "I will destroy you!" 
2. It would be nice to have a "DLC-based" item set of sorts in the global inventory. Don't go overboard on the stats, but maybe go for an "at-a-glance," appearance-oriented thing. (I know we'll be hearing from the stat-hounds on that one.)
I can go for that.
3. Double-check/triple-check those pathing and geometry bugs -- I had a couple of people get stuck in the environment during the last scene, and my 'toon got stuck in the terrain outside the main area at one point while my chick was trying to snipe. (I could load up a game to get myself unstuck, and I was able to shoot the buttholes stuck in the geometry, thankfully, so it wasn't game-breaking bug badness.)
Fully agreed on that as well, I got stuck between an elevator and wall on Noveria.
4. Fill up the "western" side of the Milky Way galaxy map...it's pretty empty. Unless they're saving this for the sequels. (Aren't the Skyllian Verge and Geth space supposed to be out there?)
I thought that was saved for sequels as well.
5. A Mako shield-regen buff that allows the shields to rebuild faster, please. (I'll probably always request this particular thing until it gets implemented.)
That or just allow us to level up the Mako at times.
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Master-Fett
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/13 1:26pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
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chiss_man posted:
4. Fill up the "western" side of the Milky Way galaxy map...it's pretty empty. Unless they're saving this for the sequels. (Aren't the Skyllian Verge and Geth space supposed to be out there?)
I thought that was saved for sequels as well.
Right. Although, even if this is not the case.... it makes sense. Any colonization effort is done starting in one area and then continuing on. American colonists didn't go to California when they hadn't even explored the Mississippi yet. And we're sure as hell going to go to Mars before we go to Alpha Centauri. Relatively speaking, the Alliance and even the Council are new empires. So they're still expanding in the areas under their control before they go off into the traverse.
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Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
3/13 5:43pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
- Date Edited:
3/13 5:45pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
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Also, another point of consideration is that I think it's very likely that we'll eventually leave the galaxy proper before the series ends, given (A) the still-not-quite-fully-explained nature of the mass relays, and (B) the presence of the Reapers in Dark Space, the void between the galaxies. That said, one argument mitigating against this would be that if the Reapers use the same mass effect drive-principles that Humans and the Council races do. They need to be periodically discharged into strong magnetic fields -- and there aren't any in Dark Space.
Then again, perhaps we'll encounter another, more advanced form of FTL-tech going beyond even the Reapers' own capabilities...in fact, we've already witnessed one "stairstepped" progression in the first game from lower-echelon Council technology to the big stuff on the Sovereign. And then there's the Ilos-conduit to consider -- the Prothean scientists perfected it at the very end of the last extinction-phase, and linked it through the Citadel, but it was something that even Sovereign couldn't control.
And if a Reaper was breaking a sweat over it, it shows that their technology isn't the absolute highest on the totem-pole. Be interesting to see where BioWare takes this.
A "Dark Space relay"? Will the Reapers even be able to enter our galaxy again from Dark Space at FTL speeds?
There are theories stating that the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. It's not clear how that would affect a piece of mass, like a Reaper, trying to move across this expanding empty expanse towards another piece of mass, like a star or planet in our galaxy. How would the distance-per-time ratio be affected, particularly if mass relays enter into the equation?
Would it even be different than interstellar FTL travel across that same expanse of space inside the galaxy? At FTL speed (however fast that actually is), would they be losing or gaining ground? Exactly how far away from the galaxy are they? Would they have enough energy to even travel that far?
They may already be trapped.
If there was another relay in the galaxy, why didn't Sovereign just activate that one discreetly, instead of risking getting pVVnd at the Citadel?
On another note...the Ally Achievements can still be attained during the new downloadable content, according to BioWare; the Ally Achievements are based on the number of missions and assignments attempted/completed, and these new DLC missions count towards that same total.
Here are the numbers needed for assignments needed for four of the Achievements:
28: Sentinel Ally (Kaiden)
30: Soldier Ally (Ashley)
36: Turian Ally (Garrus)
50: Asari Ally (Liara)
I got "Asari Ally" on the Citadel when the ship was grounded (talking to that "Terra Firma" guy).
Actually, I had 52 assignments complete, but I didn't count two of them, Wrex's Armor and Tali's Pilgrimage. Both of these I completed on the Normandy by myself.
A great guy by the name of "Cold Zxaos" has created a "Mass Effect Progress Checklist" to help with finding all of the assignments. Awesome.
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"Pronouncing the first 'r' in 'February' is like making a homemade seaQuest DSV uniform -- it's a crime
against breeding, taste, intelligence, and humanity itself; and very few people appreciate the effort."
-- Lore Fitzgerald Sjoberg
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Hammurabi
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
3/13 5:58pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
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One possibility is that the Reapers (or perhaps some yet higher beings) control most of the universe, but must maintain order by stifling growth in galaxies such as the Milky Way. It would make sense.
Although it'll be interesting to see what plot twists lay ahead.
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jangoisadrunk
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
3/13 6:41pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
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The "western" side of the galaxy map is where the other races' home systems are located. The Skyllian Verge borders the Attican Traverse (Human controlled space - where the majority of the game takes place). The Armstrong Cluster is actually in the Skyllian Verge, I believe.
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Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
3/13 7:19pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
- Date Edited:
3/13 8:08pm (7 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
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Right, the bulk of the game takes places in and around those sectors of the galaxy, and Council Space is located in that "empty" area around the Citadel (in the "western" side of the Milky Way), and the Terminus Systems are a region of space inhabited primarily by governments that do not recognize the Citadel's authority, and are not limited by the Citadel Conventions.
I'm pretty sure the Batarians aren't located there -- they're a rogue state, but are closer to Alliance space ("Bring Down the Sky" establishes them in the Kepler Verge during the first game's timeframe), which appears to be largely concentrated on the other edge of the galaxy, but the Perseus Veil does appear to be there.
The Terminus Systems are generally not considered a viable threat to Citadel Space, because the governments there spend more time squabbling with each other than actively opposing the Citadel, but if a Citadel fleet were to show up in the Attican Traverse, it might scare them enough to retaliate, and taken together they are a formidable military threat. However, the Attican Traverse, while explicitly stated to be "within Citadel Space" has even fewer clues as to where it specifically is.
One growing consensus is that the Attican Traverse isn't merely a specific region between the quadrants of the Mass Effect galaxy, but also involves clusters with mass relays that effectively are links between Council-controlled relays and Terminus relays. So "A" would be a Council relay, "C" would be a Terminus relay, and "B" would be an Attican Traverse relay. Who knows where "A," "B," and "C" are located, and what does it really matter? What matters are the connections between their relays, and how one must travel between them to get from "A" to "C" and vice versa.
The map in the game seems to use a grid-system that is subjectively shifting, based upon which political entity you're looking at from the game.
For instance, in the game, the Geth invade the Armstrong Nebula in order to build a staging-ground for invasions. But they also capture the MSV Cornucopia near the Maroon Sea Cluster, mutate everyone, and leave them there as a warning against exploring the Perseus Veil. I would assume the Perseus Veil was near the cluster based on this, because otherwise, what is the deal?
Did the Geth tow it all the way into an area far away from their territories and devoid of human colonies out of a belief that if they left it near a more physically-remote, but colonized region like Noveria or Feros that we might, heaven forbid, miss it?
If they are near the particular star cluster, why invade Armstrong? If they are far away from that star group, and can tow that freighter all the way there with no issue, why bother with the Armstrong Nebula? It must have some strategic importance, like being linked by the grid to human territories in a way that makes it very convenient and useful as a base.
The best solution I can come up with is that maybe the grid isn't as precise as the game makes it look with the red line. Maybe the Maroon Sea Cluster's relay in the Caspian system linked up the the Perseus Veil well enough, but not so well to major human colonies. Perhaps the Armstrong Nebula has relays that link up much more readily to core human settlements.
Then again, why would the Reapers build a system with irrational links that defy physical proximities? Do they try and create situations like Earth and the Charon relay? The Maroon Sea Cluster has two very habitable worlds. Was it supposed to be more cut off in an artificial fashion just in case some new species might develop there for the next extinction-cycle?
Eh, hopefully the limited collector's edition of Mass Effect 2: Leto's Revenge will include a map that solves this whole problem.
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"Pronouncing the first 'r' in 'February' is like making a homemade seaQuest DSV uniform -- it's a crime
against breeding, taste, intelligence, and humanity itself; and very few people appreciate the effort."
-- Lore Fitzgerald Sjoberg
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jangoisadrunk
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
3/13 8:05pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
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I think the problem with the galaxy map is that it is displaying in 2 dimensions what is actually in 3 dimensions, and that nothing is to scale.
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Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
3/14 8:24pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
- Date Edited:
3/14 8:46pm (10 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
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Yeah, the disadvantages of two-dimensionality become apparent when you're accessing the "meta"-Milky Way map; they diminish more than slightly when you "zoom" into the more detailed sector-maps, though. Still, it's something that BioWare should look at for the sequels: a three-dimensionally-manipulable map aboard whatever ships you command in future games.
As for the interstellar spatiography, we do know some things from conversations in the game and other sources, such as the first Drew Karpyshyn novel:
- The Exodus Cluster/Eden Prime is on the border of the Terminus Systems, according to the Salarian Councilor. The Asari Councilor states that "humanity knew the risks when you went into the Traverse." This tells me that the Exodus Cluster is considered part of the Attican Traverse, but seems to imply that the Local Cluster is not part of this same region. The only link from the Local Cluster to the rest of the mass relay network we are shown is through the Exodus Cluster. I think the system-level relays are probably all one-way intercepts, like the Charon Relay, and the cluster-level relay for the Local Cluster is the Arcturus Prime Relay. I think the relay network probably instantaneously transfers the ship from system-level relay to system-level relay through all the intermediate cluster-level (Prime?) relays.
- If the galaxy map were a clock-face, the Exodus Cluster and the Local Cluster would likely be placed near the "6 o'clock" region.
- The Serpent Nebula/Citadel is the heart of Citadel Space. We can assume that not all known Prime Relays are shown on the galaxy map, since the mass relays that link to Thessia and Palaven -- not to mention the homeworlds of the other Citadel races -- are not shown. I imagine that since most Prime Relays seem to connect to other mass relays relatively close by, that the majority of Citadel worlds are close physically to the Citadel. The Asari homeworld, Thessia, is probably only one or two cluster-level relays away from the Serpent Nebula mass relay, considering that they were the first species to discover the Citadel.
- The Mu Relay is obviously the Prime relay that serves the Pangaea Expanse, and the Mu Relay is stated to be "deep inside the Terminus Systems." The Pangaea Expanse is said to serve "dozens of systems," but we are only shown the Refuge System/Ilos.
- The Perseus Veil is probably a series of mass relays that have been cut off from the rest of the galaxy by Geth vigilance, much like the Citadel polices the mass relays that connect their sphere of influence with the Traverse. The majority of non-Mission-related Geth activity occurs in the Armstrong Nebula and the Maroon Sea Cluster, both of which are closer to the "1 o'clock"/"2 o'clock" region on the clock-face. I would think that Armstrong Nebula and Maroon Sea are each only one or two Prime Relays away from Geth space, if not directly connected. Personally, I don't know why anyone would found a colony in a system whose Prime Relay connects directly to Geth space, but I guess the centuries of Geth inactivity could lull people into a false sense of security. I don't think the Perseus Veil is located in this area, though. The Perseus Arm of the Milky Way is on the other side of the galaxy, originating at the core and spiraling outward. I believe the Veil is the boundary area between Citadel Space and Geth space, near the "11 o'clock" position. It's very likely that the Quarian homeworld is somewhere in Geth-controlled space, probably near the Veil.
- As discussed earlier above, the Attican Traverse seems to be a geographic region, probably the region of space represented by "3 o'clock" to "5 o'clock," and the Terminus Systems are a political region from "2 o'clock" to "5 o'clock," including almost all of the clusters accessed in the game. From what I can tell, the Skyllian Verge is a geographic region between Geth space and the Traverse, the counterpart to the Perseus Veil on the opposite side of Geth Space.
Here's a map that someone else came up with detailing much of the greater galaxy from all the various sources, but which is still pretty damn close to my own theories:
On another note:
I found the Codex entry you get on the Treaty of Farixen, which limits the number of dreadnoughts each species can possess, quite interesting; the dreadnought being the effective mega-"SSD" class of the Mass Effect universe, and is treated as a veritable weapon of mass destruction in its own right, similar to ICBMs on Earth. As the galactic newcomer, the Earth navy has fewer than either the Turians, the Salarians, or the Asari. Presumably, the Alliance has more than some other races, however, such as the Elcor, the Hanar, or the Volus. In the game, it's established that humanity presently has six dreadnoughts in service, with a seventh hull in the process of getting laid down at the Arcturus fleet yards.
In the Revelation novel, it's stated that we had around 200 major capital ships in service (20 years prior to the first game's events), and that several fleet groups were stationed around Arcturus, with that number shooting up to around 350 cap-ships by the time of Commander Shepard's exploits. Obviously, that number doesn't even begin to count all the small- and medium-class ships in the Earth navy, and this will undoubtedly play a major factor in Mass Effect 2 and 3, especially given the ending I received (humanity taking over rulership of the galaxy. Undoubtedly all of the treaty restrictions against super-heavy capital ships are going to be lifted after that, especially with the Reapers on the way).
You could probably speculate on the fleet strengths of all the major factions based on the numbers of dreadnoughts they construct, but it would still just be speculation. For all we know, there is no treaty limiting carrier production, for example, and perhaps the Alliance deploys more of them than Salarians. Which makes sense, given the information from the game and elsewhere.
Space-carriers are a human innovation. Some large classes of ships, from all species, can carry small numbers of fighters (dreadnoughts, cruisers), but the Systems Alliance were the first (and possibly only) military force to have dedicated combat carriers. The Combat Carrier’s main armament is the large number of fighters (and interceptors) that they carry; the Codex goes on to say that if a carrier finds itself in the line of fire, instead of hanging back launching fighters, then things have gone terribly wrong.
I still think it's safe to estimate a general idea of overall fleet strength from the treaty itself, however. The Turians have the most dreadnoughts, because they are the peacekeepers. Now, what is the use of making a treaty to give the peacekeepers the most power, only to have it overtaken by the Alliance's 3:1 carrier/cruiser/dreadnought ratio? I figure the Turian fleet beats the Alliance in pretty much all other areas, since it is the one that will be called upon in the event of a military incursion, what with the Turians being the military arm of the council.
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"Pronouncing the first 'r' in 'February' is like making a homemade seaQuest DSV uniform -- it's a crime
against breeding, taste, intelligence, and humanity itself; and very few people appreciate the effort."
-- Lore Fitzgerald Sjoberg
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jangoisadrunk
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
3/14 8:43pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
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That map totally ignores the fact that only 1% of the total planetary systems in the galaxy are inhabited. It also ignores the 3 dimensional aspects I brought up earlier. I'm beginning to think it is more like blood vessels in the brain. Each vessel represents Mass Relay routes and their associated settled planetary systems. They don't just exist on the X and Y axis, but also on the Z axis. The Skyllian Verge could be "below" the Attican Traverse while the Terminus Systems envelop those regions like they're wrapped up in a blanket. It really could be arranged any way. For all we know those regions don't even share borders in the sense that the US shares borders with Canada and Mexico. They could only be connected by Mass Relays, while being physically located thousands of light years apart. Maybe the Mass Relays that lead to and from the various regions are the closest thing to borders that exist.
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Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
3/14 8:57pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
- Date Edited:
3/14 9:29pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
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From what I've heard, the designer of that map was generally taking into account that aspect of it -- that the borders aren't three-dimensionally spatially "firm" like we have on Earth, but rather are defined by the limits of the mass relay networks in each given region. I agree with what you're saying, though.
As you note, the game establishes the "1% settled" figure, but it's apparent that entire sectors within regions like, say, the Verge (and even in Citadel Space itself) are claimed by specific races for light years in all directions, but aren't yet colonized by them, similar to how Earth is just getting around to settling many of its own claimed systems in the Terminus. This is likely where the game takes liberties with describing the limits of the boundaries of regions like the Traverse, without the 3D conceptualization getting factored into the picture.
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"Pronouncing the first 'r' in 'February' is like making a homemade seaQuest DSV uniform -- it's a crime
against breeding, taste, intelligence, and humanity itself; and very few people appreciate the effort."
-- Lore Fitzgerald Sjoberg
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wild_karrde
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
3/14 9:12pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
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Just listening to the OST right now, Man, I love M4 Part II by Faunts. Perfect song for this game!
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Katya_Jade
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Jan '02
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Date Posted:
3/16 6:49pm
Subject:
RE: Mass Effect -- Action RPG Title made by Bioware
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I finished my last playthrough on Insanity. Really not too hard when you use one of your already leveled up characters.
Leto, I couldn't agree more on the glitch you talked about where you get stuck. I never did but virtually every time I used my Throw power inside, I stuck an enemy in a wall or pushed them to a lower level. Then, of course, I couldn't kill them and sometimes I had to start over because the next part of the mission wouldn't start.
Overall, a good game I'd say.
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John 3:17
Igor, would you give me a hand with the bags?
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