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Topic:
Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Eternal Champions" & "Zelda II: TAOL")
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Boba_Fett_2001
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
5/22 10:23am
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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Or you can just upload the pics to Imageshack or Tinypic.
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Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
Go Leafs Go!
All Hail Cliegg's Blue Leg!
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
5/22 10:38am
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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Quest, you're a good man.
I'm hoping we'll get a good discussion going about the VC's selection. I have 2000 Wii points and I want to spend it on something that I haven't played over and over on the old systems. I'm sure others probably feel the same. I mean, sure I'll probably have Super Mario 64 and LoZ:OoT saved on my Wii just 'cause, but it's not like I do not play through those games every three or four years. 
(And please, for heaven's sake -- someone -- DO NOT let rogue_wookiee see that I've purchased a Wii; I'll never hear the end of it. His hatred of Nintendo know no bounds.  )
-----signature-----
"Great. We have a AAA credit rating and 9 trillion in debt. That's about as worthwhile to us as a 12 inch penis that can't get hard." - rogue_wookiee
"You rape people with your words." - roge-wookiee
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
5/25 2:44pm
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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Blithe posted:
Quest, you're a good man.
I'm hoping we'll get a good discussion going about the VC's selection. I have 2000 Wii points and I want to spend it on something that I haven't played over and over on the old systems. I'm sure others probably feel the same. I mean, sure I'll probably have Super Mario 64 and LoZ:OoT saved on my Wii just 'cause, but it's not like I do not play through those games every three or four years.
(And please, for heaven's sake -- someone -- DO NOT let rogue_wookiee see that I've purchased a Wii; I'll never hear the end of it. His hatred of Nintendo know no bounds. )
Ever hear of Gunstar Heroes? It's like Contra on crack. Seriously, buy it, you'll love it. THEN, you will be ready to buy Treasure's next masterpiece Sin & Punishment that is brilliantly insane, the 2-2 level is utterly incredible as you take on a carrier group!
Now as to the 2 games:
Contra 3: Contra is a mercilessly hard, unforgiving psychopath of a game but, due to its age, you can learn the attack patterns - once you do that, you can kill everything.
Streets of Rage 2: Easily the pinnacle of the series, for 3 overdeveloped things. SOR2 clearly picked and mixed into the game ideas from both Final Fight and Street Fighter II thus creating one of the deepest scrolling brawlers around. I mean, how many games gives you:
2 special moves - directed and all-round
3 jump attacks
Ability to land when thrown
Able to pick up and throw all weapons
Rear attack
Vaulting moves
Then there's what happens when you become truly proficient with your chosen character - each has a super combo that you can put together that'll take an entire life bar off uninterrupted or more. Do this with Alex and, unless it's a boss or you get interrupted, the guy's dead:
Stun jump attack
3 punches
Grab
Knee twice in head
Use directional attack to finish with 8-hit dragon punch
The result is a lethal 15-hit combo in a game that came in 1992!
JB
-----signature-----
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too
overwhelming, for even should we fail -
should we fall - we will know that we have lived."
Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
-LACWAC
-Lit Mod of Death
-Games
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
5/25 6:01pm
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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I also second the surprisng goodness of Gunstar Heroes.
-----signature-----
Yub Nub! Celebrate the lovvve!
K'Kruhk, 140 ABY: "Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker?
Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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Boba_Fett_2001
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
5/25 6:53pm
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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#9 on my Top 20 list.
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Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
Go Leafs Go!
All Hail Cliegg's Blue Leg!
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
5/25 7:07pm
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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I just took a look at both games, Ben, and they look great! I'm a real sucker for these types of games. I'll probably check them out after finishing-up Streets of Rage 3 and die a few hundred more times at Contra. I'd wager that Alien Wars is probably harder than even the ps2 incarnation of the series. It's still hilariously over-the-top, though.
Something is a little different with Streets of Rage 3. I can't quite place it yet, besides noting that the Genesis d-pad was a hell of lot more sensitive than the Classic Controller's. It is also kind of dissapointing that Max has been removed from the game; he was a great screen-clearer in co-op mode.
After playing Contra III a little while, I'd easily recommend it to anyone who wants more of the same. The whole setting and presentation seems more appropriate in this one given the absurdity of it all. But don't make yourself any promises on completing it. . .
-----signature-----
"Great. We have a AAA credit rating and 9 trillion in debt. That's about as worthwhile to us as a 12 inch penis that can't get hard." - rogue_wookiee
"You rape people with your words." - roge-wookiee
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
5/26 2:06am
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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Blithe,
Streets of Rage 3
I never found this as good as the second due to it feeling over-developed: The running and up/down roll seemed redundant, it also made the doubletap moves harder to use. At the same time they also ramped up the difficulty and threw in a load of time-related challenges. It's not a bad game, but it comes nowhere near the second.
As for Contra, yes you wil die and you will keep dying...for a while. 
Quest,
You have played Sin & Punishment too, haven't you?
-----signature-----
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too
overwhelming, for even should we fail -
should we fall - we will know that we have lived."
Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
-LACWAC
-Lit Mod of Death
-Games
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
5/26 9:53am
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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No, I haven't-why do you ask?
-----signature-----
Yub Nub! Celebrate the lovvve!
K'Kruhk, 140 ABY: "Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker?
Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
5/26 3:11pm
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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The2ndQuest posted:
No, I haven't-why do you ask?
2 reasons:
1. You should.
2. If you liked Gunstar Heroes, you'll like it.
-----signature-----
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too
overwhelming, for even should we fail -
should we fall - we will know that we have lived."
Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
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TheModFavorite
Registered:
Sep '07
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Date Posted:
5/28 12:28pm
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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as the mod favorite, i feel the need to chime in on the love for gunstar heroes. it does take the special weapon characteristic from the contra series and the ability to have a secondary one from contra iii, but what makes it unique is the linking of those weapons together. and if you have two of the same weapon? you get yourself an upgraded version of that weapon. so much gunstar love right now.... i may break work protocol and play me some gunstar heroes on my genesis emulator now.
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Blithe
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
5/31 2:04pm
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
- Date Edited:
5/31 2:08pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Blithe
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Folks, it has been over a week, and I think it is about time for an update! As with last time, I'll give my take on a VC release that I've played, and then, I'll turn it over to the rest of you, and ask your advice on a classic title I missed out on. Feel free to shuck the corn over any of the past selections here if you are so inclined, but for now, the focus will shift to Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, for the NES and Eternal Champions, for the Sega Genesis.
Eternal Champions
Eternal Champions was one of the pack-in titles for the second model of the Sega Genesis, during the end of its run, circa 1994-95. The plot is typical, thin-and-narrow fighting game tough guy stuff: A being simply known as -- you guessed it -- the Eternaldo Champion gather combatants from across space and time before their moments of death and force them to slug it out in a weird, superhero clash of epic proportions. The Prize: Get back home, and as a bonus, you do not meet your untimely demise. Fight your way back to your own time with the usual array of special attacks and combos. Also, players can quickly eliminate opponents through the use of Overkills, a form of Mortal Kombat-like stage fatalities, only a little less gory. Speaking of time, timing was certainly not on Eternal Champions side. With amazing games like Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting and Mortal Kombat II out, it was difficult for Sega's first serious foray into the world of brawlers not to become overshadowed. Of course it did, and even Sega seemingly abandoned the franchise, when it's attention was honed toward the company's Virtua Fighter series.
My Take: The game presents a fairly decent, old-fashioned, 2D graphics. Nothing particularly stands out about EC's game engine, outside of a few decent looking special attacks. That's not the main issue with this game, however. After all, pretty much every other game, outside of Virtua Fighter was still sticking to 2D sprites and backgrounds. Eternal Champions simply fails to stand out amongst the ever growing 2D fighter crowd. The story lacks depth compared to games like Mortal Kombat (though I'm often reminded of Quake III when I think about it), with characters whose backgrounds are fairly bland; and it plays painfully slow compared to Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting, ranging a lot closer in speed to SFII: World Warrior. It was nice for Genesis users to have something else to play at a time when Nintendo was gobbling up the market share again, but since most Genesis gamers had already experienced two iterations of a largely faster paced MK series, as well as SFII: Hyper Fighting in arcades, reverting to a more methodical approach to butchering your opponent was a challenge in and of itself. Which is a shame, because Eternal Champions had enough merits in its own right to warrant time of its own, had it only been released a year or two earlier. Hardcore fighting fans will appreciate the diversity amongst the cast, and perhaps even the absurdly strange designs that looks like a bunch of holdovers from the 80s, as well as respectfully difficult AI (not nearly as cheap as SFII's), and stage-based finishing moves, which are much more in the vein of Soul Calibur than MK, really. Consider looking into it if you are curious of Sega's earlier fighting game efforts, or if you are a hardcore fan who has literally played every thing else, because let us be honest, here: Eternal Champions is at best a mediocre fighting game effort, and there are far too many great fighters available (from that time frame and beyond) that warrant your attention first.
Zelda II: The Adventures of Link
Word has it that Zelda II is the bastard child of series, containg such unusal, un-Zelda elements such as side-scrolling gameplay, leveling (and with it, grinding), a more RPGish world map, and more. I've only played the orignal, OoT, MM, WW, and a little of TP and AltP. I suppose I was always too scared to deviate from the proven formula and check out this NES classic, and I sorely regret missing my opportunity on the GBA release. However, I have another chance, and there is just one thing that I need to know: As a fan of most of the aforementioned Zelda games, will I enjoy this release? Or is it simply too different? Nintendo is a company notorious for only fine-tuning most of their core games with each subsequent releease, and I honestly think it would be refreshing to see a different take on the old franchises, but if I'm playing what is essentially another JRPG, I'm far more interested in other games to find that; however, if it leans more toward the aciton-RPG side of the genre, I may be interested. Will this be a refreshing dose in what becomes a rather stale franchise at times, or is it another Snake's Revenge?
-----signature-----
"Great. We have a AAA credit rating and 9 trillion in debt. That's about as worthwhile to us as a 12 inch penis that can't get hard." - rogue_wookiee
"You rape people with your words." - roge-wookiee
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
-LACWAC
-Lit Mod of Death
-Games
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
6/1 11:19am
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
- Date Edited:
6/1 11:22am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
The2ndQuest
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I'm a big fan of Z2- it's easily one of the, if not the, most difficult games in the series (even with a Game Genie, the gauntlet of enemies along that lava path towards the Great Palace is ridiculously tough). It introduced a lot of gameplay elements (most notably the magic & it's meter), enemies (Shadow Link), items (the Hammer) & fighting techniques (such as Link's downward stab) used in most subsequent Zelda games in one way or another. Also the town names were the inspiration for the OOT Sages.
Gameplay wise it still has a focus on action and exploration puzzle-solving, especially when in palaces. You'll often be defending yourself from things coming at you from all directions, and it's your combat and platforming skills (or strategic use of magic spells) that usually gets you through things.
It also vastly expanded the Zelda landscape- the region of Hyrule that OOT, TWW, ALTTP & LOZ take place in is literally a small portion of the map below Death Mountain; and even after that huge map area, there's a whole second continent to explore later in the game.
Plus, Link uses whores to restore his life in the game.
-----signature-----
Yub Nub! Celebrate the lovvve!
K'Kruhk, 140 ABY: "Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker?
Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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timmoishere
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/1 11:51am
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Streets of Rage 2" & "Contra III: The Alien Wars")
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I like Z2 a lot, better than Z1 anyway.
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What ain't no country I ever heard of. They speak English in What?
Vikings > Pirates > Ninjas
Everything tastes better wrapped in bacon, especially bacon
11/20/2008: The day I married the most wonderful woman in the world
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Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
6/2 12:38pm
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Eternal Champions" & "Zelda II: TAOL")
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Zelda II separates the men from the boys.
People who go around spouting off about The Adventure of Link somehow being "bad" or "monumentally soul-crushingly hard" are typically (A) 'tweeners who rarely play games not produced during the last five years, and who believe the entire Zelda series started with The Wind Waker and The Minish Cap; and (B) folks with a severe "forest-for-the-trees" perspective deficit who don't know what the hell they're talking about.
The game has stood the test of time, and is deservedly exalted as a bona fide classic. Though, you have to kind of wonder what the Land of Hyrule in the NES games feels like to these kids today? Judging by what I've read lately on the Zelda forums elsewhere, these kids think it's a land where people lived in caves, and dungeons were hidden under rocks, and on islands.
To put it bluntly, to them, the games feel simple. For many of us playing the game on the NES for the first time back in 1987, its simplicity was, in fact, a virtue, as it actually forced us to mentally cogitate and fill in the corners of the world in our own minds. Hyrule was ours, and it was whatever we made of it.
One of the major drawbacks of modern gaming is its sheer detail...it has become both gaming's blessing, as well as its curse. By showing us Hyrule down to the tiniest blade of grass in the modern Zeldas, the game designers have -- inadvertently -- deprived us of something greater.
Our imaginations.
Now, lest folks think this a slam against anything, it isn't -- it was simply inevitable and inexorable that this state of affairs would come about, given enough time, and I don't fight or rail against it. But by giving us so much, they've also taken something else away, and that's something to at least be spiritually mourned.
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Tighter Than a 10-Year-Old.
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
-LACWAC
-Lit Mod of Death
-Games
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
6/2 1:05pm
Subject:
RE: Retro Gaming Retrospective (Now Discussing "Eternal Champions" & "Zelda II: TAOL")
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I think the whole caves/rocks/islands thing actually adds to the NES games' timeframe- Hyrule (at least the region explored in OOT/ALTTP/TWW/LOZ) is way past it's golden age and is decaying and in poverty. But that's what makes it so exciting to explore- there are these ancient dungeons under the plantlife around you and behind the walls of rock. Anywhere could hide a new entrance into the underworld labyrinths.
Now, granted, Zelda 2 paints a rosier picture by showing that most of the population have moved away from "old Hyrule" to the north beyond Death Mountain and to the south east in towns, but even that opens up things like the old graveyards and that hidden passage to get to the island maze, etc.
I don't prescribe an affinity for the abre-bones of it- I think LOZ, if remade in the level of detail as the modern titles, would be just as effective and imaginative, especially since it's open-world mechanics make for great variety.
-----signature-----
Yub Nub! Celebrate the lovvve!
K'Kruhk, 140 ABY: "Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker?
Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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