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Topic:
Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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JediLight
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
10/15 8:29am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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DarthBobbalot posted:
So only the events in episodes 1-6 happened, but everything afterwards or before then didn't happen? You acknowledge the fact that one is more real than the other? Even though they are both works of fiction developed or ok'ed by the same person? And, again, they are both works of fiction? You think that one is real and the other not? Since that's just silly, whats the point? You can say that you don't like the books or something, but they all happened in teh same 'universe' and that they all 'happened' in that work of fiction.
SW is fictional universe. The real question is whether the novels, video games, and the TV series carry as much weight as the movies. In my honest opinion, I feel that movies complete the story that Lucas wanted to tell: Anakin's Fall and Redemption.
That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the other areas (novels, video games, TV series), but they don't simply carry the same impact as the movies marked with an Episode. Those other areas just aren't as relevant to the main story. I would guess to say that almost any American could see a picture of Darth Vader or Chewbacca most people could identify them.
Now show them a picture of Ventress, Ashoka, Thrawn or Starkiller. They are all cool, but most people won't have a clue who they are except for a SW geek (me included and leading the way!).
When my child watches ROTJ for the first time and Anakin is redeemed, I won't say "The Emperor really isn't dead. He gets cloned again".
That stuff isn't part of my canon.
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JediLight
Near Marathon on 06-09-08 (ROTJ short)
Best Episodes: ROTS, ESB; Underrated: TPM; Overrated: AOTC, ANH
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maderic
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
10/15 9:26am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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I agree entirely with JediLight. My primary problem with the EU is that it undermines the movie's story and frequently (as is the case with TFU) tries to one-up the movies/movies' characters with 'cool' characters. It comes across as, in regards to The Force Unleashed, as a bad fan fiction where the author wrote themselves into the story as the main character. A lot of EU is what is silly, not the notion of discounting items you don't agree with.
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"The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, The Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married," George Lucas.
I'm a proud hater of 98% of the Expanded Universe.
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Robal_Krahl
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
10/15 12:25pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
- Date Edited:
10/15 12:26pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Robal_Krahl
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JediLight posted:
That's your opinion and your definitely entitled to it.
In my little SW world (mind), canon are the movies only from Episodes I to VI. Those movies are nearly 100% George Lucas storylines and intrepretations. The Clone Wars, The Force Unleashed is not quite canon in my opinion. But it's higher level of canon than some of the books written after ROTJ where the Emperor gets cloned or the Sith return as one of Solo's children. I feel that if it makes Anakin's story of redemption irrelevant, I discount it completely.
Wrong. The game is indeed canon. The fact that you don't accept it, however, is merely opinion. The official stance on canon was pointed out in Star Wars Gamer #6:
"Canon refers to an authoritative list of books that the Lucas Licensing editors consider an authentic part of the official Star Wars history. Our goal is to present a continuous and unified history of the Star Wars galaxy, insofar as that history does not conflict with, or undermine the meaning of Mr. Lucas’s Star Wars saga of films and screenplays."
-Sue Rostoni
The Lucas Licensing editors have gone on to say that TFU is a part of the canon universe, going so far as to produce a novel and graphic novel detailing the events of the game. That is fact. Whether or not you accept it as part of your own is entirely up to you, of course, but the official stance is that it is canon.
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Dark Lord of the DLC
We do not ask for your poor, or your hungry. We do not want your tired and sick.
It is your corrupt we claim. It is your evil that will be sought by us.
Anti-Karen Traviss. Anti-Mary Suelorians.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
10/15 4:04pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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There's nothing like a little canon battle to liven up the day..
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" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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JediLight
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
10/15 5:51pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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Robal_Krahl posted:
JediLight posted:
That's your opinion and your definitely entitled to it.
In my little SW world (mind), canon are the movies only from Episodes I to VI. Those movies are nearly 100% George Lucas storylines and intrepretations. The Clone Wars, The Force Unleashed is not quite canon in my opinion. But it's higher level of canon than some of the books written after ROTJ where the Emperor gets cloned or the Sith return as one of Solo's children. I feel that if it makes Anakin's story of redemption irrelevant, I discount it completely.
Wrong. The game is indeed canon. The fact that you don't accept it, however, is merely opinion. The official stance on canon was pointed out in Star Wars Gamer #6:
"Canon refers to an authoritative list of books that the Lucas Licensing editors consider an authentic part of the official Star Wars history. Our goal is to present a continuous and unified history of the Star Wars galaxy, insofar as that history does not conflict with, or undermine the meaning of Mr. Lucas’s Star Wars saga of films and screenplays."
-Sue Rostoni
The Lucas Licensing editors have gone on to say that TFU is a part of the canon universe, going so far as to produce a novel and graphic novel detailing the events of the game. That is fact. Whether or not you accept it as part of your own is entirely up to you, of course, but the official stance is that it is canon.
Lucas also approved those post ROTJ novels, didn't he? This is what Lucas said recently about post ROTJ material and his thoughts on canon:
"There will be definitely be no Episode 7-9. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything! And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."
"Now these three different pillars [himself, Lucas Licensing, fans] don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are under my control and they are consistent within themselves"
Source
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JediLight
Near Marathon on 06-09-08 (ROTJ short)
Best Episodes: ROTS, ESB; Underrated: TPM; Overrated: AOTC, ANH
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Robal_Krahl
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
10/15 7:18pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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JediLight posted:
Lucas also approved those post ROTJ novels, didn't he? This is what Lucas said recently about post ROTJ material and his thoughts on canon:
"There will be definitely be no Episode 7-9. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything! And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."
"Now these three different pillars [himself, Lucas Licensing, fans] don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are under my control and they are consistent within themselves"
Source
Which is an extreme backtrack, considering that in the past he said that if he'd have done a post-ROTJ story, Dark Empire would have been it. Lucas flip-flops so much that whatever he says is to be taken with a grain of salt. Considering the fact that Lucas is wrong in saying "they are all consistent within themselves," as we have many inconsistencies between the movies alone, his word doesn't count for much. In an early interview before TPM hit the silver screen, Lucas went on record saying that the Star Wars Trilogy was told from the memory banks of R2-D2 and C-3PO. It was only until he made the PT that he took the stance that the entire Saga was "Anakin's story." Either way, the company of Lucas Licensing takes an official stance in saying that the EU material is canon.
I find it interesting that Lucas placed certain restrictions on post-ROTJ stories if they, in fact, "didn't happen" in his mind. If they carried no weight, why place restrictions? Why involve yourself if these stories are not canon? Also worthy of note is that Lucas started saying "only what I do is canon" only after the EU fans started complaining about things done in the PT.
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Dark Lord of the DLC
We do not ask for your poor, or your hungry. We do not want your tired and sick.
It is your corrupt we claim. It is your evil that will be sought by us.
Anti-Karen Traviss. Anti-Mary Suelorians.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
10/15 7:42pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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indeed..
-----signature-----
" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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Lord_Hydronium
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
10/15 11:30pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
- Date Edited:
10/15 11:31pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lord_Hydronium
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Robal_Krahl posted:
Which is an extreme backtrack, considering that in the past he said that if he'd have done a post-ROTJ story, Dark Empire would have been it.
No he didn't. I looked into this a while ago on the Literature board; what happened is that someone saw Kurtz's outline of Lucas' original plans for Episodes 7-9, noticed they were similar to DE in some themes and such, and like a game of telephone it mutated its way through the fandom until it turned into "Lucas said DE would have been the sequels".
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DarthBobbalot
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
10/15 11:40pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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Id just like to point out that Star Wars isn't George Lucas'. It belongs to the fans and everyone who watches or reads or does whatever within it. So saying that Lucas didn't have any plans for before or after the events of the movies doesn't discount that content was made for those eras and that they should be just discarded. You can say that you don't like them after ACTUALLY READING them or something, but just because Lucas didn't make them doesn't mean they aren't as good, or that they don't carry as much weight as the movies, which i find an odd notion.
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In the ***Official*** Andalite-Bandit cult.
"Idle hands spend time at the genitals" - Drippy
"Kif, set a course for that blackish, holish, thing" - Zap Brannigan
The greatest weapon is knowledge. And laser beam eyes
I'm a winner.
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sethsky
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/15 11:58pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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Darth-Vassago posted:
While the game is canon, it was mentioned time and time again that Starkiller is vastly overpowered to give the player(s) a much more enjoyable experience. If you want to play with a realistic, true to the movies Jedi experience, just play the first level or so on Sith Master with a fresh Starkiller; chances are you will get beat on pretty nicely.
Overall, the over-powered Jedi abilities only add to the game. If anyone really wants to take them at face value and say that Starkiller is the most powerful Force user ever due to this...well that's their folly.
But it's not only Starkiller that is overpowered, everybody is. And in the game it's Sidious that is shown to be the most powerful, in both endings.
Played a new game on sith master, got trough it just fine, the only annoying part was that i didn't have many moves.
Even bringing the Stardestroyer down, Kota says;"You're a jedi, size means nothing." He didn't state, "You are the only one powerful enough to bring down a stardestroyer", other jedis could have done it.
About the canon bit, yes i've also read it stating that this game is canon, that still doesn't mean it's G-canon. And we'll see if it clashes with the upcoming live-tv show that takes place between episode 3 and 4. If Starkiller makes an appearence in it, i'm sure he'll be on a more realistic level of power.
I also agree with the person that stated that only the George movies are canon for him.
Lucas made it clear that nothing happens after the movies, unless he himself continues the story in any form. All the comics,novels,games are a certain degree of canon, but not G-canon. For me they are just a fun bonus, i take what i like and that's it.
I really do hope that Lucas is more involved with the Force Unleashed 2 story, cus it's so obvious that he didn't write the story of the first one.
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DarthBobbalot
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
10/16 12:02am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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Has he written the story on anything except the movies? just curious, i was under the impression that he only makes changes to what people bring him and tells him that such a character can't do that, Leia has to do this, they can't do that and so on.
-----signature-----
In the ***Official*** Andalite-Bandit cult.
"Idle hands spend time at the genitals" - Drippy
"Kif, set a course for that blackish, holish, thing" - Zap Brannigan
The greatest weapon is knowledge. And laser beam eyes
I'm a winner.
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Lord_Hydronium
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
10/16 12:53am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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There's a few things he's written directly for the EU: the prologue to Shatterpoint, a speech by Sidious in Labyrinth of Evil, some backstory elements in that same book, Darth Bane, and a few names like Rothana. Most of what he does is that sort of checking off, though.
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sethsky
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
10/16 2:10am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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DarthBobbalot posted:
Has he written the story on anything except the movies? just curious, i was under the impression that he only makes changes to what people bring him and tells him that such a character can't do that, Leia has to do this, they can't do that and so on.
Not much no, writes have considerable freedom in EU. Not a 100% but still a lot, Lucas allows them to tell their stories set in his verse.
And yes, Lucas hasn't written that much outside of his own movies, he's still the master and expert of the StarWars-verse. But there have been things that he adopted from the EU in his absolute canon.
Even so, he can't check everything out personaly(he's a busy man and there are many EU works constantly being made.), mostly it's his compangies, like Lucasarts that check it for him, following his set guidelines.
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Darth-Vassago
Registered:
Jun '04
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Date Posted:
10/16 2:48am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
- Date Edited:
10/16 3:17am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth-Vassago
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sethsky posted:
But it's not only Starkiller that is overpowered, everybody is. And in the game it's Sidious that is shown to be the most powerful, in both endings.
Played a new game on sith master, got trough it just fine, the only annoying part was that i didn't have many moves.
Even bringing the Stardestroyer down, Kota says;"You're a jedi, size means nothing." He didn't state, "You are the only one powerful enough to bring down a stardestroyer", other jedis could have done it.
About the canon bit, yes i've also read it stating that this game is canon, that still doesn't mean it's G-canon. And we'll see if it clashes with the upcoming live-tv show that takes place between episode 3 and 4. If Starkiller makes an appearence in it, i'm sure he'll be on a more realistic level of power.
I also agree with the person that stated that only the George movies are canon for him.
Lucas made it clear that nothing happens after the movies, unless he himself continues the story in any form. All the comics,novels,games are a certain degree of canon, but not G-canon. For me they are just a fun bonus, i take what i like and that's it.
I really do hope that Lucas is more involved with the Force Unleashed 2 story, cus it's so obvious that he didn't write the story of the first one.
True. I'm just bringing up the fact that the game developers did cite, before hand, that the Force powers in this game had been pushed through the roof to enhance the gaming experience.
I just beat the game today on Sith Master. Surprisingly, the toughest parts were Kazdan (I expected as much) and the Bull Rancor. Other than that, I did pretty well. I think the fact that my character was basically maxed out by the time I got to the final level had a lot to do with it. I literally breezed through the two Finales; I was a bit letdown because...I had hyped them up considerably in my head.
Oh well, it's done and over with completely, now. I'll set it aside until the downloads come around.
[Side Note] It seems the "default text" glitch just picks and chooses which save files it wants to be on. My first time through the game, on Warrior, I had the default text. This time, on Master, I did not. I was able to get all the holocrons/bonus objectives. Thankfully.
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"Even if you kill me, the fighting and death will continue. Of course...you won't kill me. Not today..."
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harrison13
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
10/16 5:48am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars The Force Unleashed [All Formats] (General/Non Spoiler Discussion)
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If I am not mistaken, GL had a big part in this game. He approved each aspect of the game and even gave pointers. So for those of you putting down the game because you feel it is trying to "one-up" the movies, GL was involved. Plus it is a game!, of course they are going to make everything a little over the top.
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" Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the GUN!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtnWMDkhvsQ
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