Saga George Lucas retiring from SW films (What does this mean for the future of SW?)

Now since Red Tails is being a bit coldly recieved, it's being used by all the detractors and, yes haters, as the final and absolute proof that George Lucas is a hack and everything else was luck or made by others. It's funny cause, even if it was a passion project of his and he did some reshoots (the extent of which is unknown), he is only credited in Red Tails as an Executive Producer... Basically he provided the money and the means for it to be done. I was even expecting him getting a "Story by" credit, but not even that. And blaming him for all of Red Tails' failings (also there seem to be a lot of critics "not getting it", by criticizing the elements that were the mais reason for doing the movie like giving black heroes their "John Wayne" moments, but of course I need to see it first to pass a final judgement), is unfair. It's like blaming Steven Spielberg for Transformers. And the critics take advantage of this; a review in Ain't It Cool News by Nordling calls Red Tails "an early contender for worst film of 2012" which, even with the reviewer making a disclaimer about George Lucas in the beginning of the review (and I won't believe it is that bad), but he wouldn't make such a bombastic claim if Lucas wasn't involved.

 

I only learned this yesterday, and maybe it's just a political move and I'm overreacting, but I feel like the mob has won.

I could agree with that if we were talking about criticism of the movies. But I think this isn't what he is talking about. He says "what a terrible person you are". He's referring to those vile and hateful and completely personal attacks that have become all too common in the Star Wars fandom. I've been monitoring and taking part in other fandoms, and I have never seen creator-bashing taken to such extremes. Thanks to the mods and the participators, Jedi Council is one of the rare exceptions. I've seen the so-called fans like celebrating his announcement of retirement yesterday. No matter how frustrated some people are with the PT, I fail to comprehend what he has done to deserve treatment like that. It's just awful.

As for the Saga. Of course chances were very slim that he would undertake a third trilogy. Now they are gone altogether. I would've been interested in his ideas. Maybe, hopefully, some day we'll get some information, perhaps an outline of a third trilogy, provided it exists.

 

My thoughts..

1. It's not surprising that this happens. Here is a guy that has spent nearly half of his life bringing us one of the most successful film franchise in history, and the most people do is bash him for simply making a few movies that they don't like. Now I can say that there are a few things in the PT that could have/should have been done better, but to simply bash the man continously over the years is wrong..

 

Nothing unusual in this. It's, basically, a repeat of a paradigm established around the time of "Howard The Duck": find a producer credit, and regardless of Lucas' actual involvement, bash away. That said, it sounds like Lucas was fairly extensively involved with this one, so him being targeted is not quite as ridiculous as history might otherwise suggest. What adds further insult to injury, perhaps, is that Lucas supposedly had this project on the back-burner for something like twenty five years -- a quarter of a century -- and all he appears to have come out with is a lame-duck (pun intended) of a shoot-'em-up fest. Now, I haven't seen it yet, so I can't definitively rule with my own opinion, but the critics have already given it a pretty good drubbing, and the trailers have done nothing for me, so I can't imagine coming away with a different view in the future. But you never know.

The thing is, though, that Lucas has been firm on not making additional Star Wars movies since doing the press rounds for ROTS in 2005. That's seven years in which he has, presumably, stuck to the same sentiment, but now, all of a sudden, he lashes out and seems to implicate fans or cynics in a decision that seemingly had little or nothing to do with them before. On first glance, it felt disingenuous. Nevertheless, now that I look upon his remark again, even accounting for humour, it may truly be a measure of his exasperation: an added incentive

 

If the Darth Plagueis novel is any indication, the mob has won.

Despite, or because of?

 

Maybe it's people now apparently turning on his daughter as well - I read one post indicating that in the Live Action Forum thread - that was the last straw.

Thanks; it's nice to see you again, too. I haven't turned away from Star Wars, I was just preoccupied with some other franchises recently. But when I read this quote by Lucas, I felt horrible; it's good to know that there's at least one Star Wars board left where you can talk to sensible people and not just drown in hater attacks.

 

I dunno. Both? Are you trying to say the two are conflated; or are you meaning to indicate that they are different and I have unwisely equated the two? If my semantics are in question, then I will clarify: in all likelihood, Lucas knew about the "nooo" meme (from ROTS) before he made the adjustment to ROTJ, and/or before he chose to release the adjusted version as it now exists, but he did so regardless. He may well have made the amendment some time ago, or wished to make this change irrespective of what others think. It doesn't matter which. All that matters is an "if": if he's aware of the derision surrounding the "nooo" (from ROTS) (again, I maintain this is likely -- especially as "nooos" in Star Wars are a somewhat parodic element to begin with (though, ironically, they may have a "higher" derivation/meaning: see Frank Herbert's "Dune" and the glossary entry for "LA, LA, LA")), then he is not, necessarily, setting out to mock or toy with anyone, but, at the least, he doesn't especially care for the perception of silliness in Star Wars, because he doesn't hold fire when it comes to these sorts of contentious alterations. Heck, back in 2007, it was reported that Lucas jokingly called "Spider-Man 3" "silly" (due to a societal perception that "silly" things are also frivolous and can't be substantial -- something he was clearly mocking (e.g., look at some of the themes in the third installment of the original Star Wars trilogy)), which immediately provoked a fierce backlash (a revealing chapter in the annals of fanboy ranting, in my opinion, and now, forgotten).

That's an exceptionally good point; and one I can instantly see I was remiss not to factor into my speculations. Yes, if there's anything liable to earn a father's ire, it's when criticisms come home and start affecting family members, e

 

Please don't mention IMDB user boards in the same breath as TFN.

The universe will split in two if you do it again.

 

I agree with Cryogenic about how rotten and completely useless the rest of the internet is when it comes to anything star wars. There are sites, like reddit for example, that have whole sub communities dedicated to star wars but as soon as you get there you realize that almost NOBODY in the whole community even actually likes star wars!

They are ONLY in it to participate in the hate memes and rants. Keep in mind (and I cant stress this enough) these people seriously are not even fans of star wars, they just "know of" star wars or are very casual fans who have seen the movies maybe once or twice and mostly just play the video games and enjoy participating in the boycotts and memes and hate trends. BUT THEY WILL CALL THEMSELVES STAR WARS FANS! They are almost like a whole community of people who are not fans of star wars but fans of HATING star wars! If you have never seen star wars before and make the grave mistake of asking them about it they will link the (proven to be 100% bull****) RLM youtube review to you and tell you to watch it before even watching the movies themselves! I swear to everyone here that I have SEEN this done before with my own eyes manny times. It is a complete corruption of everything that ACTUAL SW fans believe in. It has gotten to the point where it (seriously) can be compared to a cult of some kind.

Even the ones who will swear up and down that they are real SW fans who just genuinely have problems with the other 50 to 60% of it, they can STILL be caught participating in behavior that is CLASSIC and undeniable troll behavior. I have lurked these sites (recently) and observed how their community works and it is unbelievable how phony and hollow their so-called "fandom" is. Its like North Korea, thats just the best example I can use. These are people who never bothered to even learn what star wars means. All they ever do is gather to talk about how they would do star wars differently. Every single day all you see is posts of pictures of very old fullscreen vhs copies of the OOT that people find at the goodwill for like 2$ and it NEVER gets old to these people. You can go back 50 pages and you'll keep seeing pictures of old OOT vhs tapes over and over again.


This is why I am proud of the strict moderation we have HERE on this site and I would like to say to the mods that if anything it needs to get stricter! The blind hate trend has infected and taken over the whole internet to the point where we are in agreement that this site is basically the ONLY PLACE left. Its time to get harder on users HERE that I can name who only ever post about how much they hate the thing they are supposedly a fan of. When you see people doing this...BAN THEM! End it. I am well aware of the rules we have here about free opinions and that might have applied 4 or 5 years ago but times have CHANGED. These individuals have shown that they have no real interest in SW other than to destroy it. Star Wars is under siege and the mods here need to get a little more in touch with what goes on outside of this site.

 

Ah! Yousa point is well seen!

Yeah.

It kind of evokes -- in some weird sort of way -- the selling of coloured water. What's being proclaimed is actually something of a ruse, but everyone sort of accepts it, somehow. It's very decadent.

Or it's something like: "I'm a Star Wars fan, but..." Which is sometimes followed by the words "you have to admit". Yes, even the people who position themselves as reasonable fans, in a rather hostile environment, still come off as detractors.

Which only makes it all the scarier for anyone who is actually a fan. The burden is suddenly on them to justify their fandom; and as soon as they try, they're labelled an "apologist", a "mouthpiece", a "cultist", etc.

Even moderate approval of all six movies, or just the prequels, starts looking strangely fanatical -- and feels dangerous -- against an animated majority. You immediately feel like giving up; or pouring yourself a stiff whiskey after the fact.

 

Although I agree with most of what you said, the solution you propose is was too extreme and doesn't help your cause (or the cause of Lucas' defenders, etc), we're just lowering ourselves to them. Free speech should be allowed whatever the circunstance except when the conversation delves into racism, sexism, xenophobia, and other offending topics, and even then there should be allowed to an extend so they could be properly shot down. Now one thing these "Star Wars" fans you mention, and honestly even yourself, forget, is that Star Wars are just MOVIES. Good movies yes, a great influence on pop culture and film in general and yet, they're not a cause like the ones I mentioned prieviously. When fans compare the original Star Wars trilogy to the friggin Bible, and I'm not a big fan of the Bible myself, you know they are completly delusional. The Bible is one of the foundations of the western civilization, for better or for worse, and Star Wars is just a series of blockbuster movies, albeit really good ones. They're putting it on a baseline that it can't possibly achieve. So let's not give them the satisfaction.

And let me tell you a little anecdot on how the whole "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" debacle was blown severly out of proportion. I have a friend who is pretty new to Star Wars, through he had seen The Phantom Menace before and liked it (but not Jar Jar, though I believe to the influence of the web). Now to give you a little prespective, he's as purist as they come: he swore off all movies based on Marvel comics due to finding the first X-Men "completly horrible". He actually thinks that "purist cuts" of The Lord of the Rings that exist on the web, are much better that the theatrical or extended cuts. He complains about the Harry Potter movies due to little fidelity to the books, especially the last one which is arguably the best one. One day, ROTS was shown on TV and I was talking to him through facebook all the while, him asking questions to me and vice-versa. First he never was the least bothered by the midichlorians, and actually asked an intersting question on whether Palapatine could've use midichlorians to build an army, whether midichlorian based droid (or cyborg), or fully blown biological creations (like the clones, but born like Anakin). He complained about Grievous coughing, because why would a droid cough? I explained to him Grievous' origin, but he wasn't 100% sold. And complained about Anakin and Padmé's lines, though in The Borgias the "You're Breaking my Heart" line was delivered the same way and no one batted an eye (it's obvious that George Lucas wanted to emulate the classical over-the-top romance dialogues). But after the movie is over and asked him if the "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" was that bad, already expecting him to say "absolutely" but his answer was actually "no, not really." It's quite telling isn't it? So the next time you defend the ROTS' "nooooooo!" by saying that ESB's was just as bad, and you were told that "no it wasn't" you just say "you're right and you're wrong, but you're only saying it because it's ESB".

 

We're really straying off-topic, here, but I'm not sure how that is "lowering" ... "ourselves" ... "to them". Really, that is just the sort of language I think should be avoided, where possible. You've crudely simplified something that isn't about sides. I was offering an olive branch to obi-rob-kenobi based on his rather strident desire, in my opinion, for stricter moderation across the board. Yes, the Star Wars films are just movies, but they contain, or have been deemed to contain, a wide spectrum of themes, motifs and ideas, and discussions naturally cut a broad cross-section of topics; some of the better, more substantive discussions do, anyway. I'm not aware of fans specifically comparing the original films to the Bible in terms of scale or profundity, per se, but again, depending on the discussion, comparisons to the Bible and other religious texts do crop up from time to time. I am not in the business of wanting to give anyone "the satisfaction", but I'm always on the look out for good, solid discussion, and my proposal, while not a flippant suggestion, is just that: a suggestion. Rather than advocating for censorship, I thought I was advocating for structured conversation. I am not keen to have any one belief or opinion barred from a given forum, but certain threads -- and merely at the thread starter's behest at the outset; not on the whims of an oligarchic moderatorship, or another user, or a silent majority, or anyone or anything else -- could, in theory, have tighter moderation applied to them, simply to satisfy an opening requirement clearly stated by the thread starter at the beginning. If that constitutes a severe infringement on the right of individuals to freeedom of speech, then I guess no alterations -- and, in fact, no moderation -- should ever be enacted. Then again, that last sentence should not be taken as some sort of warrant of approval; once more, my suggestion is merely a suggestion.

 

Yeah you're right cryogenic, but the talk about banning and the judgement who is or isn't a real Star Wars fan, is a bit falling into the same kind of extremismo that the "other side" uses... It's something that can happen to anyone of us, if we're angry enough. But as Charles Xavier says in the latest X-Men, "we have the power to be the better men".

 

Fair enough. We do need to be careful of fanaticism in all corners. I mean, it goes with the territory: fan = fanatic. So, rather than becoming jaded or complacent about it, it's something to be ever-mindful of. No Star Wars fan should feel excluded from a board; and no-one has the right to define who is and isn't a fan. However, the behaviour of some fans is pretty disgraceful, and persistent sarcasm, snark and out-right contempt shouldn't be tolerated on any serious board, in my view. It is not the tastes of a poster that are important; it is their conduct and treatment of others. Hopefully, that statement is banal enough that everyone can agree with it. But then, uniform agreement is another difficult topic, isn't it? As I said before, TFN has always generally done well at striking and maintaining a balance, so I don't think there's a major need to change anything. But we all get a little ticked off with the behaviour of some fans at times; so some ranting is more or less inevitable, and it's probably best that such things be taken with a pinch of salt. It's not like there isn't a lot of stuff out there for a PT or SAGA fan to get, er, perturbed about. Still, we would be well-advised to keep hasty, sweeping judgements about others to a minimum, absolutely.

 

Agreed. I trust, then, that I can turn to you for support in countering the next insecure individual who trots out the above's reverse: "Anyone who dislikes the prequels just had too many unrealistic expectations." Because I see that one around these boards significantly more than your example.

 

The reason he wouldn't make any more is because he finished his story cycle.

This is just his sense of humor.

He is on a junket for Red Tails, facing the same news outlets who tore the prequels to shreds, he's just pointing out the irony of someone wanting him to make more Star Wars movies after all the crap the prequels got (and still get).

 

I'm feeling slight remorse now after bashing the fact that George Lucas was toying around with the original trilogy. I really did not think film makers, such as George would take crude comments as harshly as he did. It upsets me to know that he will not continue on with the story, though that has been known for years. I'm glad he ended the saga off on a good note as opposed to a horrid, rushed movie.

 

I'm sure George hasn't really been effected by the hate dished out to him by his "fans" I would suspect he personally finds the whole thing quite amusing and takes it for what it is - A lot of faceless nerds hiding behind a computer screen and egging each other on to get more and more extreme with their opinions.

However, my guess is his kids have been very badly effected by the hate. George probably hardly ever seeks it out, but I wouldn't be surprised if Katie and Jett have been on the internet a lot over the years and been very wounded by what they've seen - I know I'd hate it if my mum or dad was one of the most villified people on the Internet....

So, if the hate has really made Lucas retire (and as has been correctly pointed out here, it remains to be seen just how seriously we should take these comments) I would guess its the effect its had on his kids more than anything else. That, and people tampering with his movies to create their own edits, which I'm sure Lucas is much more annoyed about than the silly personal comments.

 

THX-1138
American Graffiti
Howard the Duck
Tucker
Radioland Murders
Willow

 

Do Labyrinth and the Dark Crystal count? Didn't he executive produce those as well?

 

Labyrinth, yes, DC, no. He produced Labyrinth and worked closely with Jim Henson; they both edited the film, passing their cuts back & forth until they reached a 50/50 cut!

He also created/produced wrote & directed for the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, possibly his very best work.

Other films he has produced are: More American Graffiti (he also edited that), Body Heat, Twice Upon A Time, Kagemusha (Akira Kurosawa), Dreams (Kurosawa), Koyaanisqatsi and its sequel Powaqqatsi, Temple of Doom, Last Crusade, Crystal Skull, Mishima, The Land Before Time, Return to Oz (he half-financed it & saved it from being scrapped and acted as producer/technical adviser), the Ewok tv movies, the animated Droids & Ewoks series, both of which were really good, and Captain Eo. He also produced the original Star Tours ride, created an educational foundation (Edutopia), has been the driving force behind Lucasgames (producing The Force Unleashed like actual SW movies), and contributing to the SW books & comics (this has been very hush-hush for some reason, but as time has passed, it turns out he's dipped his oar in those waters several times, practically editing the PT novelizations). He also co-wrote an epic fantasy book trilogy "The Shadow War Chronicles" in the 1990's. He is now producing the Clone Wars tv series, working closely with the creative team, and it is one of the most successful series on television. He also mentors many filmmakers (Lawrence Kasdan, Frank Darabont, Ron Howard), although these days they tend to be directors such as Peter Jackson and James Cameron, who stop by ILM to check out the latest technology. He's also hosted conferences on digital cinema & 3D cinema.

That's along with ILM, Skywalker Sound, the new animation studio in Singapore, and massive construction projects like Skywalker Ranch and the digital studio in SF. He also gave something like 1/3 of his wealth to American education (the details are not public) about 2 years ago. He also adopted three children and raised them as a single father.

Along with three SW prequels, and early films like THX11 & American Graffiti.
I'd say the man's kept busy!!

And for the record, Red Tails is a terrific movie, definitely see it on the big screen. People love crap like Transformers without apology, and we're going to shoot down a really strong independent film for a few small faults? Bull****. The early Spike Lee films have just as many awkward moments that don't work, but they were important for another reason, they were also enjoyable despite their flaws (stilted dialogue, use of classic movie tropes, scenes that go nowhere) we were grateful to have something cool & different to watch instead do another crap Bruce Willis action movie. I'm thankful for Red Tails, it's a really cool, very different kind of movie. And for the record, A New Hope & Raiders were "corny" too, and got their share of bad reviews. People are judging this film without ever watching it!

Back on the off-topic, ha ha, the internet has spawned a generation of spoiled, bitter, narcissistic, hateful, bored people who believe they have a right to be perfectly entertained 24/7, "on demand," and if they are not serviced immediately and perfectly, they quite literally throw temper tantrums, and like children spoiled rotten, they will never forget the birthday or Christmas they received a blue bicycle instead of a red one, and they will never let anyone else forget it. I've given up hope for this crybaby, "occupy" generation. They want it all for free, NOW, regardless of the realities of life, or the desires of others who have as much "right" as they do to have it "their own way."

Lucas is too

 

The language is less harsh*, but the message is identical: "I'm so insecure about the fact that you don't agree with my assessment that I'm going to make up a scenario that paints you as an irrational person with a deficient approach to judging the film(s). Because MY assessment was, of course, formed from a mindset entirely open and free from the slightest bias or predisposition."

*less harsh in my example, that is. It probably wouldn't take too much searching to find examples of the "unrealistic expectations" sentiment expressed on this site with language more the equal to your "no taste" - stuff along the lines of "impossible to please loser fanboys".