Full Series The Clone Wars - Episode 5.1 - Revival - discussion thread

You're new here aren't you? I do love how people tell me I am wrong for my opinion, or how I just don't "get" stuff.

And I thought you enjoyed my rants Seerow. Or has something changed?

 

Anyone find it odd seeing Maul using single-bladed lightsaber instead of a double-bladed lightsaber that we saw in TPM?

 

Half the man, half the saber.

 

Half the testicles, given Witwer's screech.

 

I think by half you mean none. They were burned to a crisp in a reactor shaft.

(Though I like Witner's Maul, honestly.)

 

He should have been burned to ash in that reactor along with them.

 

Fantastic episode. Hondo was excellent, as always. I love the fact that they mention the thing about criminals gaining more power because of the Clone Wars. This is the sort of stuff I was wanting to see in the prequels, but I knew it wasn't as important as the main story. It's just good to see the massive shift from Republic-era niceness to the run down, crime infested, used future of the original trilogy.

The four way lightsaber duel was also quite impressive, and I loved the brief shot of "DUN DUN DUN PALPATINE!"

8/10.

 

i give this episode a 7/10

 

Just FYI, everything from Republic Commando has been saved. The Essential Atlas integrated the addition of desert regions on the planet with the pre-established forests and jungles, while relegating the pacifist Mandalorians to a single sect of "New Mandalorians" that has isolated itself from the warrior clans who still exist. It also maintains that Keldabe is the planetary capital, and states that Spar eventually wins out over the New Mandalorians and continues the established storyline from there. The New Battlefronts visual guide explains that the expansive desertscape seen in the series is only a portion of the overall ecosystem, and implies that Prime Minister Almec's denouncement of Jango Fett is born of pride and patriotism to the New Mandalorian state than actual fact. It also mentions that the mines of the moon Concordia were created to search for beskar iron and that Pre Vizsla is from the same clan as Tor Vizsla. The Essential Guide to Warfare details the conflict that spawned the damage to Mandalore, calling it the Mandalorian Excision, and backs up the claims made by the previous two sourcebooks. And if rumor turns out to be true, which the general consensus has deemed likely, then Matthew Stover will be picking up the Imperial Commando novels in that re-established environment.

Basically TCW took on the Mandalorians and lost. Concessions were made to allow its integration to canon, but the attempted replacement has been revoked. The EU won that canon war, Lucas be damned.


As for my feelings on the episode now that I've seen it:
I'll get it out of the way right up front—though I've known about it for some time, and was obviously expecting it, the death of Adi Gallia and the damage it caused to continuity was infuriating. As others have said, there were several other options, not least of all substituting Eeth Koth.
That said, I found the episode itself very enjoyable. Overlooking the disruption of canon, Adi's death itself was pretty cool. If there hadn't already been something established for her, I would've considered it perfect. One thing I certainly hadn't expected was the offensive use of a Zabrak's horns. Every source describing them as vestigial seemed to suggest that they wouldn't think to make use of them, and it was certainly a brutal surprise.
The numerous canon references were really cool to see, though they also served to highlight the "oddity" of overlooking canon when it came to Adi. But anyway... the sector, the Hydian, and the reference to the fact that most people don't comprehend the difference between Jedi and Sith were all nice inclusions. I also liked the spirit ichor mist leaking out of Savage's wound and Maul's broken leg; it helps solidify the concept that neither Savage's powered body nor Maul's legs are a product of the mundane. The dynamic between Maul and Savage felt appropriately Sith-like, and Hondo is always a welcome addition to any episode.

Overall, much like Citadel Rescue, I would've been very happy with the episode had the shadow of canon-trashing not been looming overhead. With that, though, the episode wasn't entirely ruined for me, per se, just...somewhat sullied.

 

Dude, give it up. The POINT being made is, there are those of us out there who spend our hard earned money on the books and comics, and were told that they were the official continuation of the saga. Then Clone wars comes along and starts contradicting stuff that they DON'T need to be contradicting. The EXACT SAME story can be told on any episode of TCW, with some minor adjustments made so that us EU fans (and there are a LOT of us) aren't being spit on every time TCW decides to kill somebody for dramatic effect. Use a different Jedi, one that hasn't been killed off already in a book or comic. Hell, better yet, create some bloody NEW characters for us to grow attached to, and kill one of them off.

I've spent a LOT of money on the EU, and because of TCW I feel that some of that money has been wasted, and also that I was lied to way back when when I was told the EU was the official continuation of the SW story.

I don't like being lied to.

 

The EU is the official continuation of the SW saga, but it has always been subordinate to the higher canon and there's plenty of EU-lore that were relegated to non-canon status or retconned long before TCW came around.

 

Second best in my view, just below Clone Cadets. That was a superlative episode.

This was almost as good, though even with the canon issue ignored, the inclusion of Adi Gallia seemed... pointless. She had little to do or say in this episode except be the person who Obi-Wan bounces his thoughts off of. I get that they have a history in both TCW and prior EU, but this was not very well hinted at in this episode. She was essentially a redshirt. If they're going to use a redshirt, they should at least use a vaguely interesting original character. Perhaps an edgy young Knight itching for a fight before she gets unceremoniously dispatched by Savage. That could have had the same effect, though a better writing of Adi Gallia's inclusion could have made this better. On the other hand, Obi-Wan's reaction to her death was very well handled. It balanced the un-Jedi-like rage he feels after Qui-Gon's death with the cold resolve he feels while fighting Vader on Mustafar.

However, that aside, this was a great episode, clearly a cut above most of the earlier seasons' in terms of writing and animation. The Hondo-Kenobi dynamic was as good as it has ever been. The Savage-Maul dynamic now piques my interest (Brother versus Master). The shoutouts to the EU were welcome. The IGBC secuirty officer's ignorance of the difference between Sith and Jedi and the reaction of Palpatine hint very strongly at the groundwork for the events of ROTS.

8/10 or 9/10.

 

Is anyone else extremely annoyed the official episode guide has NOT been updated.

 

It just makes me glad that I never bought too much CW era comics and such, never had a huge appeal to me in anycase. I don't know about you all, but I figured there would be another CW TV series that would overide pretty much everything after the microseries ended.

 

Actually, the more people rail against using Adi as Sith-fodder for this episode the more I see why they went with her. There's no reason to dislike her, there's no reason to expect her death, there's no irony or deep message in her passing. She's a casualty of war, death comes out of nowhere and takes out someone who doesn't deserve it and wasn't expecting it. I'm not saying it was handled perfectly but I can see the reasoning behind it. In fact, I remember complaints in S1 & S2 that there seemed to be a "magic shield" around Jedi Council members protecting them from harm. That shield seems to have been dropped. As for Obi's reaction, he does let some aggression seep into his fighting but basically at this stage he's trained to control his emotions, to view death as "becoming one with the Force", a "natural part of life", to "mourn them not, miss them not", to actually "rejoice" when they leave behind their mortal coil and become part of the essence of life. He's also seen a massive amount of death by now, even if you start with TPM, Obi is a battle hardened veteran by this point.

It's also good to note that Lucas created Adi Gallia. Ultimately, she's his character, to do with as he sees fit.

One thing all this did was make me dig up "Obsession"! I'd never even heard of it before this! And I'm primarily a SW comics fan, above the novels.

 

Basically this.

Retcons have been apart of Star Wars since the beginning(ex. Vader and Father Skywalker becoming one person.) and it will continue as long as stories are being made.

 

Great premeire! The show only seems to get better as it goes along. Although a mechanical eunuch like Maul shouldn't be that powerful (or you know, alive), Witwer has created a memorable take on the villain. Hondo stole the show though.

I see The Clone Wars hasn't lost its policy of violent deaths. Poor Adi.

 

Yes. Stass Allie was Adi's cousin, not twin sister.

 

As stupid as the idea is, I feel like TCW should take place in an Alternate Star Wars Universe. Because all of the canon being destroyed is just screwing over all of the Lore fans. What really get's to me is how TCW fan's just go with the the flow and tell us to get over it.

 

Lucas is about to re-interpret one of my all time favorite SW planets & stories - Onderon & TOTJ. I already see that they've nixed the Dxun Moon and put the jungle on the planet. I don't feel cheated or lied to. I'm actually grateful that he's using the environment so I can see it in motion. I'm not expecting Yoda to say, "Go to Onderon you must, Obi Wan, where Master Arca and Ulic Quel-Droma fought the fabled Beast Wars etc..." I mean, that would be awesome (!!) but I'm not holding my breath. It's two different takes on the SWU: Veitch and Lucas. I think they're both brilliant. I rank TOTJ with the movies. But things change...

 

Another point I just thought of:

Hondo's willingness to accept his old crew back, even though they betrayed him, was a nice call back to Season 1, where even though Hondo captured and tortured two Jedi, they have no quarrel with the gang, which Hondo even comments as very honorable. This act of honor also distances both the Jedi and Hondo's gang from the Sith (Dooku in the Jedi's case and Maul in the pirates' case).

 

Earlier in the episode he said they were no longer his men and he wanted their tongues and he then just forgives them.

 

Nor should you feel lied to. Onderon always had terrible jungles filled with beasts of its own, having migrated across from Dxun when the moons orbit drew close. That's the reason for Iziz's walls: to keep the jungle back, the beasts out, and the people safe. Just from one TOTJ fan to another.

Personally, I'm totally okay with that. It's a Hondo thing. The dude's got his own logic and even more luck, and if it seems to be working for him...hey, I say good for him.

 

Yeah, I know, but it seems like the atmosphere sharing moon is out. I know in later stuff, like video games, Onderon was streamlined, I'm not sure if they kept the "Demon" moon, but the planet/moon relationship is central to the appeal of Onderon as a setting in the comic. I was just using it as an example. Most younger fans have never read TOTJ, I didn't wanna get all complicated

 

No, I am not 'new here' - any more than you are, anyway. I've been a registered member for years (just about as long as you have, in fact) and have enjoyed this forum for a time before regeristing, and I've been a Star Wars fanatic since 1980.

LACWAC is actually where I spend most of my time here at TFN. I simply favor posting when I'm inspired to do so and feel I have something to offer, so you won't see me cluttering up a forum with random quips in an attempt to be heard (although I am prone to gushing from time to time, when somethiing hits me just right). But you know what, I don't see how it makes any difference at all how long anyone has been here on the forum, other than supplying you with what seems to be some (misguided) straws to grasp at.

I never once said that you were "wrong for [your] opinion," and frankly, I think it absurd for you to suggest otherwise. Any time I may have opined that you weren't 'getting' something, I clearly prefaced my remarks with words along the lines of "perhaps" and "maybe."

I'm not here to try to hurt anybody's feelings. I welcome other points of view, as they tend to enrich my Star Wars experience and offer the opportunity for discussion versus a situation where everybody is simply 'preaching to the coverted.' Now this is just my opinion, so try not to feel attacked, but if you are so upset by the words of any of my decidedly innocuous and on topic postings, then perhaps a discussion forum is not the arena you're looking for.

Now that you and I have both said our piece, maybe we can shake hands and get ourselves back to the topic at hand.