Lit The Continuity Snarl Celebration thread

This is it exactly. My understanding of True Mandalorians was that they were Mandalorians that followed the traditional Mandalorian way of life.

If 'True Mandalorian' only applies to a small military unit commanded by Jango Fett, then yes the True Mandalorians were wiped out (though if iirc Walon Vau refused to answer the call to go to Galidraan). But even that would still leave a lot of Mandalorian warriors and their clans still residing on Mandalore, in and around Keldabe and in numerous other smaller population centers throughout their territory.

I know you asking Zeta, but I thought I would respond I actually very much enjoy the Season 2 Mandalorian Epsiodes and find them to be an interesting addition to the universe.

My fear of course, which thankfully has not happened despite the wishes of some, is that their inclusion would be used to wipe Karen Traviss's additions to the universe from canon. Yes I wish the show would have handled it differently(and the stuff coming up in Season 5 is going to be difficult as well) but overall I liked the episodes probably more than anything else the show has produced.

Well except Embo, 'cause he is cool.

 

Considering that the forces sent to neutralise Mandalore seem to have been held in check to the extent that a Fett-genome nanokiller had to be deployed, it could be that there were plenty of warriors left behind to defend the planet.

 

The name technically does, as while "true Mandalorian" can have a number of connotations, "True Mandalorians" with a capital T is the specific designation of a group. Just trying to clear that up. And Silas, Kal Skirata, and Walon Vau were all implied to have been affiliated with the True Mandalorians, but for one reason or another, weren't at Galidraan when the massacre happened.

Not counting Keldabe or Sundari, there are three other currently established cities on Mandalore in canon―Enceri, Shuror, and Norg Bral―along with the sprawling Keldabe suburb of Bralsin. They're not exactly hiding out in the backwater woods for fear of discovery.

 

Well, Allston didn't come to the Wookieepedia booth, so I had to settle for Denning. Though, when I toted my portfolio to Topps, they noticed that it had quite a few Zuckuss images in it, so they already know what to expect. Perhaps if I give him enough graphical depictions, authors will take notice.

 

I'd imagine that any and all of the Mandalorian training sergeants chosen for Kamino would have some tie to the traditional warrior culture, if not ties to Fett himself.

 

Well that's...disappointing. I hear you and MJ did a great job with the booth, though.

Haha, one can hope! Hey, maybe they'll do something with Zuckuss in the OT era, considering the shift in focus with the new Star Wars comic series and the Rebels novels.

 

IIRC the Mandalorian trainers were selected on the basis of being Galidraan no-shows, or that's how I understood it.

 

Wouldn’t that disqualify him from being a “true” Mando, having not heeded his Mandalore and all?

The Atlas should be a neutral source and it can easily be true at the time as the New Mandos are the popular government also backed by the “former warrior” clans, with the self crowned Mandalore a wandering outcast.

Or they killed all the New Mandalorians, or had just sold them to Slavers repopulating later, or of course got them into forced retraining. All can work as Clone Wars timeline is all over the place anyway. Though Fenn could also be talking about every Mando warrior in the galaxy if they pool the Clans.

Not many? Yes such things are relativ, though it would seem strange if there are Millions of wandering Mando warriors at the time as they are supposed to be very uncommon and when battles between them are fought by a few hundred people.

To my surprise Sacrifice actually does mention that there are no more than some 12 million Mandos in the galaxy as a whole. Mando sector must really be very sparsely settled.

And nothing to point at them all being super warriors either. Not all of them can be equal quality warriors as those that engage in such things full time and they also have a proper society to actually keep up running, rebuilding a planet (that should actually be unlivable do to Vong attacks, but whatever)

Didn’t work that well, though once again one can just marvel on why the Imps did not just sterilize the planet and be done with it. Almost seems like people just want to keep them around so they have someone to beat into the dust every other year.

 

What Vau says is that he could have been at Galidraan, but wasn't, because it wasn't his fight. There's nothing to suggest he was asked and refused Jango's call; there's actually nothing that suggests Jango even put out a call as Mand'alor, the members of the True Mandalorians seem to have all been volunteers.

From time to time the Atlas loses it's objective tone, often to gloss over grey, troublesome areas of canon, so that areas remained open to the reader's interpretation based on the situation they prefer or were familiar with. This is not a complaint, mind anyone reading, rather just an observation.

Or they ate them. Or they turned into Majin Buu and absorbed them. Or they gave the planet over to them and acted as stealthy House Elf caretakers just out of sight. I can come up with a thousand random ideas, too, that still doesn't give them any basis in canon. And Fenn was specifically referring to Mandalore's planetary population.

Quote please? I just did a search of Sacrifice for any mention of a twelve million number and found nothing. And as for the Mandalore sector, Mandallia is populated, as are Kalevala, Jakelia, Vorpa'ya, Concord Dawn, Cheravh, Ordo, Harswee, Hrthging, and Breshig. And those are just the ones we "know" about now.

I don't recall stating they were all super warriors. No, I'm pretty sure I never mentioned they were supercommandos or even at all particularly badass. You just keep attempting to shortchange them. I'm just being realistic based upon the canon information given.

 

Continuity Snarls can happen quite often, especially with regards to Population.

WEG put Carida's population as incredibly small and the Caridan race having been relocated.

Perhaps to justify it as "only" an Academy planet.

 

Oh man can we talk about Kyp now?

 

And speaking of the Caridan race... Those spindly legs would not be conducive to a high-gravity world. A stockier body form would be far more beneficent. Better displacement and less of a direct downward pull on the body.

 

No wonder the True Mandos and their Mandalore died if they can't even be bothered to ask for help from their own people in a war to decide the fate of their culture .

Would not put it beyond them.

Waru ate them, more likely.

Like Imperial Army troopers?

Didn't Traviss also pretend he was insane?

"We have a population of fewer than three million here, and maybe as many as three times that in diaspora."

And none of those worlds mentioned need to have majority "Mando warrior cult" populations. Concord Dawns comic incarnations seem deeply lacking in one for example, or Mandalore istelf for some 700 years before the Clone Wars.

So am I, not every Mandalorian will be a warrior of Bobas skill (who is pretty much self taught).

 

you mean Snarl Durron, the poor mineboy who got raped and psychotortured by an old crazy woman who claims to have once been a great Jedi?

wait.. for a second I thought of Jacen and Vergere... but then again, I like Vergere. And Old Vima rocks..

 

No.

Ah. Sounds flexible and non-definitive.

Concord Dawn doesn't have any significant warrior clan population in canon as far as I'm aware. But then, that's not what you asked. It is populated, however. Let's refrain from playing musical talking points.

I'm still curious as to what point of mine you think you're replying to with comments like this and that other one. Is it the whole "warrior clans" thing that's tripping you up? "Warrior clan" doesn't mean super badass elite of the elite. It means regular soldiers who are part of the portion of Mandalorian society who follow the warrior ways, but aren't affiliated with Death Watch, the Protectors, or other officially defined groups. I don't know what you think I'm saying here...

 

Comes across that way in Revelation, or Beviin at least made him sound that way, but than just about anyone seems insane in that book.

Yep, he is properly aiming way to high.

I think we are talking about the same thing, that not every member of the clans will be full time warriors or even practically better at it than some fellow who grew up on some other uncivilized backwater where he got to shoot vermin, between cleaning the dishes and tending the fields.

 

The picture the Republic Commando series paints of Mandalore, an arboreal jungle planet, leaves no room in my mind for the New Mandalorians and the black-domed cube cities in the desert wastelands, which really feels like they should belong on Kalevala. Hence my insistence that Sundari is on Kalevala, not Mandalore. As I have said before, "I was happy where I was."

 

by that logic the Ewok Movies contradict ROTJ by showing terrain different than forrests... d'oh! we needn't make problems ourselves where there are none! they create enough for us to ponder... don't add to it.

 

Continuity, combined with the fact I just don't care about the New Mandalorians, is the reason why, to me, the New Mandalorians don't fit in the universe.

 

So any guesses how we make the awesome A Hunter's Fate Greedo's Tale work with Greedo already old and bitter during the Clone Wars? After all it needs to be saved do to being one of the best SW short stories / Web Stripes out there.

Edit:

You can make the same argument for Traviss Mandos.

 

I know I am being unrealistic about the New Mandalorians, which is making me ignore them even though they do fit in the universe, but I simply will not embrace TCW or anything from it. I am trying to prove a point, that a fan of the existing universe can simply not care about TCW, even if, no, especially if it comes from George Lucas himself. Lucas' views on what happens in the EU are harmful to the universe, because if they were really using the EU, there would be only minor conflicts that really are due to the change in media, not blatant disregard like we have now.

 

My favorite version of the Mandalorians is depiction the we see in KOTOR II. All others, be they from Traviss, Lucas or TCW, are inferior.

*shrugs

I just accept all the different versions we see as different branches, different philosophies. A highly nomadic and numerous group like the Mandalorians is bound to have some kind of division in rank. And hey, it's ultimately the Traviss Mandalorians who survive in the long run.

 

And hey, it's ultimately the Traviss Mandalorians who survive in the long run.

Nothing prevents us from seeing the others.

By the way, Zeta, I like and respect you but do you think that mentioning. "The continuity is bad, I reject it all" really opens much room for discussion? You've stated your opinion on the subject about 15 different ways and I get it's a personal matter but, well, it might be better to talk about something else because complete rejection doesn't actually give much room for discussion in this thread.

 

the Mandalorian history is so convoluted by this point that I'm not sure which group is which sometimes... didn't Kreia prophecy the destruction of the Mandalorians with Jango Fett's death? Is this simply referring to the Mandalorian Civil War, the end of "true" Mandalorians? That could certainly explain the pacifist Mandalorians; the Mandalorians we meet in KOTOR II are dead, and a new culture rises, only to fall to a revived subversion of the old (the Traviss Mandalorians). I haven't read LOTF though, so I don't know much about the Mando's of that era, and just how similar or dissimilar they are to the Mandalorians of old.

 

Are we assuming the New Mandalorians aren't just off-camera by Boba Fett's time? I'd love to see a revival of them, personally.