Lit Filling in the gaps: The Sequel Trilogy, a cartoon series, and the new EU canon

DISCLAIMER: This thread is about the possible creation of a new Expanded Universe. It does not endorse or disclaim the possibility. Rather, it is exercise in "What If" scenarios. If you come in here either bashing the current Expanded Universe OR claiming heresy that there could ever be another EU, you will be asked politely to leave.


Not long from now, in a galaxy very, very close...


So, if the current rumors are to be believed (and, by all accounts, we truly don't know jack ****), the main idea behind a Sequel Trilogy revolves around an aged Luke Skywalker in a period 2-3 decades after the Rebel victory at Endor. Based on this assumption, we would be placed into a "new era", where the Jedi are re-established and the Rebellion proclaimed a new Republic. But, as with any popular franchise, many folks would ask "What happened during the decades between ROTJ and Episode VII?"

Now, given the popularity of the Clone Wars cartoon series, one could assume that the best way of "filling in the gaps" between the Original Trilogy and Sequel Trilogy would be a CGI cartoon series. The reasons for this are fairly obvious:

• Could be used as a vehicle to "catch us up" on the original Star Wars heroes between VI & VII.
• Allows us to see the various OT characters "in their prime", as CGI character can look like their younger selves.
• Opens up possibility for stories about characters from the OT outside of the "Big Three", such as Wedge Antilles, Lando Calrissian, Bounty Hunters, Ackbar, etc
• Shows the early efforts of the Rebels to re-etablish a new Republic and Luke Skywalker to rebuild the Jedi Order

It also would, from a purely financial standpoint, probably be very successful. It would have all the trapping of the OT (main heroes, familiar starships, famous locales, etc), so merchandising would be a no-brainer. It would also allow Disney & Lucasfilm to ramp up excitment for Episode VII during 2013-2014, with the cartoon dropping little hints about what we would see in new trilogy.

Lastly, would a cartoon series would be more likely to "cherrypick" stories from the EU and use them as the basis of episodes? We have seen this with TCW, so there is a precedent. Would this be the best way of bringing the better know and more popular aspects of the Expanded Universe into the new canon? Stuff like the Thrawn Trilogy, X-wing comic/book series, and other widely popular stuff would provide fertile ground for a cartoon series.

Thoughts?

--Adm. Nicks

 

Hmm, well, if nothing else this thread will be an interesting exercise in testing reading comprehension.

 

I think a new cartoon series would be the obvious way to go, based off the success of both CW series. I think that just like with the marvel superhero movies, it's inevitable that some stories will be picked from the EU and adapted to suit the new universe, changed to make the universe more tame perhaps to what's going to be shown in the movies.

For example, lets say they make a series tomorrow and the first movie comes out in 2014 on a scheduled date. While they probably wouldn't be able to cover every single event that happened in that time, they'd be sure to cover major ones, and to make sure that those events lined up perfectly with the movie. This of course creates excitement for the movie, and for any merchandise that comes from the cartoons. Its also perhaps gauges interest in the idea and could (And most likely would) lead to them branching out into other areas just like the current EU did. New games, books, comics, etc.

This could also be a very good chance for them to solve a problem that has always existed between the movies and the EU. Force Powers. You've got Palpatine being thrown down a shaft by Vader in the movies, but tearing open wormholes in a comic. You've got Mace fighting on Geonosis like an average joe, but tearing apart an entire droid army in one cartoon series, and even fighting off gunships in Shatterpoint. You have Vader struggling against Luke, but fighting a far more ferocious battle against Galen Marek in Force Unleashed, surviving explosions in comics, and stabbing himself through the chest to take down a somehow revived Darth Maul. What i'm basically saying is that by creating an entirely new EU, they have a chance to make things....more coherent? Line up more on all fronts?

If the care, by starting fresh they are able to basically have everything make perfect sense across the board. I personally think that the more successful stories from the current EU would definitely be adapted in some form, or at least referenced.

 

That is a very good point. One advantage of having the new EU and movies developed by the seam team would lead to a more coherent and streamlined Expanded Universe. You point about a popular cartoon series being a way to "test the waters" for additional EU storytelling avenues (books, comics, games, etc) is a very good one as well.

--Adm. Nick

 

I agree that a new EU is likely based on the sequel trilogy.

To that end, and given the Clone Wars show will probably be over by 2015, I'm wondering if they'll shift/repurpose Underworld to be set in between the OT and ST, rather than the OT and PT. Disney already has a Marvel movie universe spinoff show in the works, after all, so this would be a logical extension of that format to their other new major film property.

 

I think in the new EU Luke and indeed his NJO will have greater links to the PT which OOU hindsight allows. I'm talking Luke going to Naboo, knowing about Padmè immediately after Endor. Actually I daresay the final scene of IX will be on Naboo if it's not on Tatooine. Furthermore I think the Jedi Temple will be restored, and the hierachy of the Order and its rules reinstated. I think Yavin IV as a Praxeum is out (which I prefer).

I'd also love if the Senate as depicted in the PT is restored and features in the new EU. None of the silly stone seat business from the JAT.

Great, optimistic thread, Nick.

 

When Luke was informing the Senate of his intention to rebuild the Jedi, I originally pictured him delivering it to the Senate as depicted in the PT. Scene read much better that way.

 

The New Jedi Order's greatest strength is that it's not the old Jedi Order. If the sequel trilogy and the new EU clone the OJO and give us another bunch of narrow-minded celibate clowns who practice archaic traditions and refuse to evolve with the times... ugh.

 

Expect it, though. Notice since the DNT (2005) the Order has been portrayed much like the old Order.

 

I agree, the Senate in JAT is now, in my mind, more like the Senate in the PT. However, I like the Praxeum at Yavin IV. What I want ideally is them to just set the films 50 ABY, preserve the EU as it is and make it and the films one continuity once and for all. The new Jedi can be based primarily on Ossus and scrap the whole pyramid crap they did in DNT and just have the NJO take residence in a rebuilt PT-era Jedi Temple for relations with the GA. They can come up with some retcon crap later about some kind of construction shielding or whatever so that the descriptions in DNT and LOTF and the images in Legacy have a reason for being what they are. It's already supposed to have been a replica of the original floor plans anyway.

That said, if we are going to get a streamlined EU... hopefully still hitting the major story points of the current EU within that 20-30 year time period after ROTJ, I want TTT preserved though I could see that somehow taking out C'Baoth somehow and keeping Thrawn. Maybe keeping just DE1 and lessening the degree even further to which Luke fell to the dark side. Keeping, in broad strokes, JAT while tossing out the Suncrusher. Heck, eliminating superweapons period is probably good. The trapped spirit of Exar Kun could probably still work, what with all the increasingly mystical stuff GL has been bringing into the universe. Keep Hand of Thrawn, because that's pretty big IMO. They could even potentially keep the NJO series and the Yuuzhan Vong, but tone it down several degrees. It all depends on who the next generation of heroes ends up being.

Ideally, I'd like the new Jedi Order not to be identical to the PT Jedi. I mean, there's a pretty clear theme of how the hidebound ways of the Jedi were their downfall through out the PT and the culmination of that theme comes in the OT with Luke still doing things differently than the old guard Jedi Masters want him to. And these are the guys that originally put him and Leia with real families instead of taking them into their own care and training them from infancy on some isolated backwater. Anakin kind of shows all the flaws in the approach the Jedi took in that era for what they are, and in a very real sense the disconnection of the Jedi Order from the common people and their life experiences really drove a wedge between the Council and Skywalker resulting the birth of Darth Vader and the extermination of the Jedi. If the Jedi were really capable of empathy and had known their own families, how vulnerable would Anakin have really been to the whisperings of Sidious?

 

Actually, JackG and Jeff bring up an interesting question about the Sequel Trilogy's new Jedi Order. Does it copy the OJO or does it have distinct differences? If we do find out that Luke had a son or daughter, that is a clear sign that the the NJO is at least different in some aspects.

As for the Senate, I just want to see it in a positive light. It would be a welcome change, IMO.

Another thought- thirty years after Endor, we should in theory have Supreme Chancellor/Chief of State who isn't Leia or Mon Mothma. Which would be very fun to see. It isn't a given that Leia is the leader of the new Republic.

--Adm. Nick

 

The Jedi order definitely needs to change; considering the ROTS novel practically hits you over the head with why the OJO failed, and George Lucas read it, one would think he was going in that direction anyway.

 

I think we can also jettison "new"... it'll just be the Republic.

I really feel like the Saga has such a clear message of there having been something wrong with the Jedi Order itself, it would be criminal to make it exactly the same. I have absolutely not problems with it being the same aesthetically. Temple, check. Robes, check. Lightsaber colors, check. Youngling-Padawan-Knight-Master ranks, check. All of that is well can good, keeps the crucial elements of Jedi culture present. However, celibacy is ultimately a liability IMO. And the idea that a Jedi has to have no familial attachments is poodoo anyway. If they are incapable of training their members to keep cool heads while living as actual sentients than cloistered robots. Not that they have to all get married or anything, but why should that be a problem? What about their job, the nature of human emotion, and meditative training makes that necessary? Sure, the Jedi are modelled off Shaolin monks to a degree, but there are similar groups in this world that haven't felt it a liability to marry, have children etc. For instance, there were chilvaric guilds in the Middle East that doubled as Sufi Orders and thus the members practiced warrior arts and mysticism. They weren't monastics. I just don't see why celibacy would be necessary for a Jedi, and I can see from the Saga itself why the particular "non-attachment" rule in play in the PT was a significant weakness of the Order... whether it be from their general disconnected "ivory tower" relation with common beings or the trouble it caused Anakin(and by extension the whole Order).

 

Yeah, I expect to see the NJO differ in several ways. Call me crazy, but I could actually see it being LESS organized and structured than the OJO. Being based on Coruscant in the old Temple doesn't mean that Luke's order would need to emulate the old Jedi order.

On to the idea about a cartoon series, it would allow for early seasons to show battles against the remnants of the Empire. Visually, having Rebel forces fighting stormtroopers, TIE Fighters, and Star Destroyers has very good visual appeal. Seeing a CGI naval battle between Rebel and Imperial navies would be rather epic, to say the least.

--Adm. Nick

 

I definitely want X-wings and TIE fighters on tv.

 

I've been speculating on this very same possibility myself, and I think it's the "only" smart solution there is to explain the gap 4 ABY - to whatever. People would need to get this gaps filled - and everything taken into consideration, an anmated Tv series would solve the problems. Also, from the launch, it was pretty obvious that CW was "the new way to go". And justbecause we'll now have films too, why would they drop an obvious possibility that's also fairly quick and low budget? Also, taken into cosideration that even if we get the first film in two years from now (something I don't quite believe in) - it will still be fpur more years at its best before we have the second part of that trilogy. They could easily focus on introducing a new time era in film, then let the tv series roll and do its work and stast to tie the new era in witht what's happened before in part II.

My main question would be what audience they'd go for. CW is towards younger children, but it's obvious that the adventures of the OT characxters would interest everyone who was young back then, i.e. people who're now 40-60 even. This audienc would be eaiser to please witha series that a film, simply because they'd not put up their hopes as much, but I doubt they'd enjoy a CW clone - they'd want somethng more.

 

While the floating scene concept itself is obviously there as nothing more than eye candy, I do enjoy the idea of it remaining as nothing more than a small link between the two eras (not that connections need to be constantly shoehorned it, but it is a decent image of 'getting things back on track'.)

Even so, one has to wonder if Palpatine even decided to keep the floating chairs. I mean, he destroyed quite a few of them when he was fighting Yoda.

 

Well even in the current EU it's always been less organized and structured. I mean, they were on a jungle moon for how many decades? Personally though that's something I don't want them to get rid of. Obviously by the time of the movies the Order should stand united as a whole. They should be effectively working together to solve their problems, and the Jedi Council especially should be pillars of excellence among the order who solve their problems through rational discussion, not squabbling like children. It'd also be really great if a new series kept the tone of TCW and got in some stories on everyone, that way its not Luke, Han, and Leia dominating things. More stories about the other Jedi out there so that fans can become more connected to them. Really this is one of the best things about a cartoon series. They can very quickly focus on, and jump to many characters in a relatively short amount of time.

However, from the end of ROTJ and for the first decade or so (Depending on how soon they'd have Luke start searching for and training new Jedi) i'd want to see the same as we did in the current EU. Some successes, some failures. Luke tries his best, but stumbles here and there. And we definitely need to see how more interaction between the Jedi and the common people, since many will themselves have been common people.

In terms of the Senate, I liked the stone seats thing, just like I liked the jungle moon. Again, it set the NR apart from the OR.

 

In my personal canon the stone Senate is the Imperial Palace's own smaller version of the building (which the JAT says exists). I always imagined the stone building wasn't that big; built only to accomodate sectorial senators (also in my personal canon Palpatine limited the number of senators to the number of sectors, removing any representatives from single worlds) Palpatine, like the Jedi Temple, didn't want the old Senate building to serve as a reminder of the Old Republic so added one to the Palace and vacated the old building. After the growing member worlds of the New Republic started to fill the stone Imperial Palace chamber and the bombing by Kueller, the NR opted to transfer to the old Grand Convocation building.

This works with the JAT, NJO and New Rebellion. My little personal canon entry came about after one of the X-Wing comics' depiction of the stone chamber was really off putting for me. Because, let's face it, the Senate inTraitor and TUF was meant to be the PT building.

 

If the EU is rebooted, I kind of expect a Ultimate approach, as in the Ultimate Marvel universe. That's, streamlining and updating existing concepts that still work while repurposing them and also adding new continuity. I could see a new version of established characters like Mara Jade (though maybe not as Luke's wife, depending on what happens in the ST) and even established events, like the Ssi-ruuk invasion or the establishment of the Yavin Academy.

 

I'd hate to see the EU rebooted, but then again I love a streamlined EU and one that takes into account all movies, including the Sequels. I also think TV series will be a sure thing and a good bridge. many good points made in this topic, BUT...

... I do doubt they kill the old EU entirely and rather do a TCW approach of stuffing it tighter + adapting parts of it loosely based in the EU for tv maybe reinterpreted
... also I think while a lot of aspects from the movies are misinterpreted in the EU or overdone and overcomplicated and others seen too simple, the new streamlined EU if it would come, should not shrug back from ruining old EU and fans. While I do not want to see my favourite EU characters and stuff gone, I'd prefer if it is replaced by a better, greater EU closer to the original SW vision of the movies and to boot still showing and using the old EU characters and stuff in the new EU whereever possible to tell us "they exist, this happened."
... what I fear is, the NEW EU would start asap with the leadup to EpiVII and not wait for all Sequels to be done until new EU makers can fully grasp the meanings and what happened in the Sequel Hexalogy. Thus this leads to like with the old EU an ongoing retconning and making stuff fit since from a marketing perspective they hardly wait for all movies to be done, which would be perfect for the most streamlined fitting EU. Like SW done and finished, now fill in the gaps. But they even might NOT finish it ever and do the Sequels as movies, then add EU-esque movies all over the timeline, like they do with tv specials, series, games etc.
... essentially, it comes down to IF done right => YAY.. if not: BOHOOO... and if TCW is any indication:

It will be very artistically done! Look great, deliver lots of fun and great new aditions missing from the old EU. And still it would piss of so many of us and suck in other regards. Nobody/Nothing is ever perfect. I both love and hate TCW for different reasons.

as for the new EU...
...it should make heavy use of the old EU but in a creative way like declare overwritten stuff as historians misinterpretation or inuniverse novels/tv shows and such. or scare tales by Wedge to the pilots like with one Marvel issue.
...it should feature characters, locations and all of the old EU but not necessarily shove them all in (quality over quantity). F.e. have them keep the best parts of the old EU mostly intact or if adapted for tv in a redux version with sourcebooks filling in the gaps not seen on screen since a lot of tv tropes will be used to skip stuff from novels I bet. X-Wing books, Courtship, Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire essentially form a good coherent post-Endor lineup of events. thereafter came other great stuff of course but those are the most sure to stay I think, since they stick closest to Georges vision and practically created the EU as well as developed the gffa and its cultures we see everywhere these days. JAT might get overwritten with Luke refounding the order in another way with different people maybe though I love his first class (X-Men First class style JEDI-FIRST-CLASS movie would rock). and while I love the Solokids and their friends and NJO and onwards have many great scenes and things despite overall when looking at it in a longterm perspective they do not fit best to the Movies and happy future to be. I wish the Solokids could stay in the New EU with the YJK books. Ben doesn't need to stay in my opinion though if they follow the rumored female Skywalker thingie. But I'd keep Mara as mother!
... does a new EU mean also a new Prequel EU or just new post-ROTJ EU? since the new EU would have to get rid of Prequel EU stuff that ties to post-ROTJ EU too.. or former Eu characters then featured still in prequel EU would be their only canon appearance since old EU is no more then. so.. totally new EU for all movies and the entire timeline however far into past or future that may be? hardly believable given they'd have to replicate a hell of a lot of stuff. Including retcons that ironed out the discontinuity amongst the movies themselves or movies and TCW.even those contradicted each other at some points. And I can't believe they'd ignore that or do a fully new EU given the ammount of work that went into the old one and that they'd have to replicate within less time. still a partial reboot of just post-ROTJ EU is less likely than a full reboot. And I still do not believe any reboot will come at all!

 

Didn't Lucas or someone once say that making TV series like TCW was something of a huge risk already, what with the present state of television and all that? I think it was in the context of whether they'll ever make the Live Action series...
But on the other hand, Marvel planning a SHIELD show seems to say it's still feasible, so...

 

I would love to see a series between Ep III and IV. I also think there is a possibility of adapting some of the more popular EU stories in some kind of format.

Personally, I don't think I would mind an EU reboot. It would be nice to see a Thrawn trilogy that connects more with the PT. I would like to see a more streamlined EU. Redo the important stories like Thrawn, the Jedi Academy, and the Hand of Thrawn. I would also like to see something like 1 novel a year, so that more time can be spent on the stories being told, rather than rushing out so many novels that its nearly impossible to keep up.

 

thing is, they'd only adapt for tv some stories in redux variants with changes... never rerelease rewritten novels.. heck what author would even rewrite his own story?