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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Discussion Why all the EU Hatred?

Discussion in 'Archive: Disney Era Films' started by JediMJS, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Well, there's your sequel plot: Luke goes to the gay side.
     
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  2. stellarmagic01

    stellarmagic01 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I think part of the 'hate' comes from two sources.

    1. The rule that 98% of all human endeavors end in failure is readily apparently in the EU... translation. Most of it is poorly written.
    2. Del Rey's kill em all mentality and dark approach has alienated those that originally were fond of the stories. Killing fan favorites like Chewie, Mara Jade, Jacen, and Anakin Solo soured a lot of people.
     
  3. The Hellhammer

    The Hellhammer Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    I also think that they've overdone it a bit. As I mentioned before, almost every year of character's lives is covered and filled with menaces and threats and superweapons and dark jedi and who knows what else.
    There are stories that deal with other characters and other timeframes, but they are few in comparison to the turbulent lives the main characters have lived.
    While I do like EU, I am not really against saying that they should've went for quality over quantity.
     
  4. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Well, it's not as if they were going to sell stories during the peaceful years. From 19 ABY to 21 ABY, from 30 ABY to 35 ABY, from 36 ABY to 40 ABY, from 41 ABY to 43 ABY. That's... 13 years right there, in the 4 ABY to 44 ABY period? Over a third, and the longest period of continual threat was from 4 ABY to 19 ABY (fifteen years), of those 40 years.

    For me, the Old Republic and the Jedi fell - the first and only time in twenty five millennia. I expect there to be fallout. The Vong War was an interruption from that fallout, nothing more.
     
  5. stellarmagic01

    stellarmagic01 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Thank God for Timothy Zahn, so much of the Hand of Thrawn duology is a subtle... 'Take That' to the superweapon, dark jedi spawning, EU of it's day.

    Luke Skywalker: Damn, what do I have today... lets see, three dark jedi uprisings, two superweapons, and... wait, son of the sith! Finally something nice is going to happen in my life! Thank the force! I'm coming Mara!
     
  6. LawJedi

    LawJedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2009
    In my personal canon, he always was. [face_blush]
     
  7. artooo

    artooo Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2012
    The "EU" is nice, but the star wars films have always been about original stories.
     
  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    And it can have one, without "decanonizing" the most popular bits of the EU.

    I'm guessing that even the people who love the idea that Luke never got married, would balk at the idea that Leia and Han's relationship never got off the ground and they split up shortly after RoTJ.
     
  9. Uncle Owen

    Uncle Owen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 1999
    I have no issue with the EU, some of it is quite entertaining, while some is utter garbage. However, the EU is not canon and should not be used to predict what may appear in the ST films, IMHO.
     
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  10. The Hellhammer

    The Hellhammer Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Canon or no canon, it most certainly will have very, very little (if any) influence on what goes on in those movies.
    A nod to some character or event here and there, but no more.
    It's wishful thinking to expect more.
     
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  11. WIERD_GREEN_MAN

    WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2010
    So, I personally am not feeling great about what may happen to the EU. But so what? It's canon until 2015.
    I've been answering posts with stuff from the EU, and people are either ignoring what happened in the EU outright, don't know the EU, or suggesting that my posts "don't count" because they didn't happen in the films. I know that. But the films covered only a few years in a few hours with a few people.
    Why are people not accepting of the EU as valid? It isn't non-canon...yet. And still some people will only accept filmic canon as valid. Why are people refusing to accept EU?
    And why do some people think the EU is non-canon? Lucasfilm never said it wasn't.
    People may hate what happened in EU. So? A lot of people hate Jar-Jar. Yet no one says Jar Jar doesn't count. EU is canon. Why would anyone say that EU doesn't count?
     
  12. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    It's canon, just a lower level of canon then G-canon (film canon). If Lucas wanted just 1 canon....period....then he would have made it so the canon levels were never made. But no...he caused the EU to be created (and has also been involved in some of it).



    The idea that EU isn't canon at all (which includes TCW, an EU which Lucas has been quite involved in), simply because it isn't G-canon is a stupid statement.

    Here is some info to inform you.....



    The Holocron continuity database is an internal database maintained by Lucas Licensing for the express purpose of trying to maintain continuity within all licensed products. The Holocron is sorted into four levels of canon, reflecting LFL's current canon and continuity policies: G, T, C, S, and N. G, T, C, and S together form an overall continuity that is considered by Lucasfilm to be the "true" Star Wars canon.
    • G (George Lucas) canon is absolute canon. This category includes the six films, some of the deleted scenes from the films, the novelizations of the films, the radio dramas based on the films, the film scripts, and any material found in any other source (published or not) that comes directly from George Lucas himself. G canon overrules all other forms of canon when there is a contradiction.
    • T[1] canon refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series.
    • C (continuity) canon refers to the main body of EU work, and is the next most authoritative level of canon. All material published under the Star Wars label but not falling into either G, S, or N is C canon, and is considered authoritative as long as not contradicted by G canon. Games are a special case as generally only the stories would be "C-canon" while things like stats and gameplay are "N-canon". If the video game has several possible ends or if the player can choose the gender or the species of the main character, only one of each is considered C-canon. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon. (This includes: the name "Coruscant", swoop bikes, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters or Action VI Transports.)
    • S (secondary) canon refers to older, less accurate, or less coherent EU works, which would not ordinarily fit in the main continuity of G and C canon. Unless referenced by a G or C-level source, the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. For example, this includes The Star Wars Holiday Special, the Marvel comics, or the popular online roleplaying game Star Wars Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.
    • N continuity material is also known as "non-canon" or "non-continuity" material. What-if stories (such as those published under the Infinities label), game stats, and anything else that is directly contradicted by higher canon and cannot at all fit into continuity is placed into this category. "N-canon" is the only level that is not at all considered canon by Lucasfilm.
    So please don't compare the EU to a bunch of fanfic (which you are by saying none of the EU is canon) when Lucasfilm (and therefore had George's approval) says this is official canon.
     
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  13. Saurion-Fett

    Saurion-Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2001
    oh my god I got half way through that and realized that I was not that much of a nerd....dont get me wrong I am a nerd but wtf......lol..........that was like when I tried to read the bible.....versions of canon for star wars....wow " this is the gospel according to george"...."now let us hear from the book of Zahn".

    I guess the fans who count the holiday specials as canon would be like mormons .........
     
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  14. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008

    You didn't know before that there were levels of canon? I'm not really surprised, probably most of the star wars fans don't know at all, or very little of the canon levels. But that's ok...you do now. Always nice to have the uninformed become the informed :)

    My work is done.

    If you are curious of learning even more about the star wars universe, its EU, or simply more on canon, this site will accomplish that.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
     
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  15. Saurion-Fett

    Saurion-Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2001
    I got to C and gave up but thanks for the link.....I did read the first Zahn novels...but it was like tofu instead of steak but i did love this first Tales of the Jedi Comics. Would make good a TV series
     
  16. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    If you liked Tales of the Jedi, perhaps you would like these comics set in the same era (but after).

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic_(comics)

    Basically a prequel to the game Knights of the Old Republic.
     
  17. Cantina Bassist

    Cantina Bassist Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2012
    I mean this without a shred of malice whatsoever, but you need to get yourself a girl, mate.
     
  18. Yodahasgreenfeet

    Yodahasgreenfeet Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 4, 2012
    Because if I acknowledge EU I have to acknowledge that there are 10000s of other stories after the films that I know nothing about . And that means I'll be left confused what the hell is going on in episode 7 unless they accommodate all those stories. I rather they just make a film that they feel is best to take place after episode 6. My brother and I scoff at the idea of reading all the expanded universe material just to see if Disney "messes" up. Some one right now is writing a star wars fan fiction novel ....
     
  19. LordDeschain

    LordDeschain Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Really easy to do man, it can be eluded to and that's it. They don't need to baby the audience and give every detail of someones life! In ANH did not knowing crap about Luke's personal life and upbringing ruin it for you?
     
  20. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Luke had a mostly uninteresting life (or was supposed to) on Tatooine. That's very different.
     
  21. fenton

    fenton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2001
    But having him have a son but no mention of his wife, their relationship, how he died etc... is bad story telling.

    They could just ignore Jaina's past and start fresh with her, but then why bother using her in the first place? Having Jaina but ignore her two dead brothers (one she killed), having her be with Jag etc... is bad story telling.

    REmember to 90% of the people who will this movie, its not a continuation of an ongoing story. Its the start of a new story. So having your characters be in a place were they've lost wives, had children and grand children, killed twins, lost loved ones etc... is a bad place to start. Most of the audience will want to see that stuff happen on screen. What you're suggesting would be like starting ANH were RotJ picks up.
     
  22. KilroyMcFadden

    KilroyMcFadden Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Am I alone in taking everything everywhere in the star wars universe and fitting it together in a way that I find pleasing? Isn't that the game?
     
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  23. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2005
    omg that such a good idea y didnt i tink of that
     
  24. The Hellhammer

    The Hellhammer Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    N
    No! You must argue and whine and bash and kick and scream whenever someone mentions canon or EU or how the movies interact with EU!
    You must be new at this.
     
  25. Chaos123x

    Chaos123x Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Most of the EU I take as fun "What If" type stories. I really enjoyed the Dark Empire comics but they would suck as actual movie canon.

    The Zahn stuff was a snooze fest too much techiniacal and millitary mumbo jumbo it was dry boring and Star Trek feeling, never felt the magic and spiritual side of SW.

    That said I would love to see the old republic movie about Yoda starting out that George was going on about a few years ago.
     
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