Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

As far as Jedi relationships or not and why Anakin turned to the darkside, I feel personally Anakin already turned when he tried to save his mother, by then he was already consumed with hate and all. His relationship with Padme officially started when Anakin has already lost control and therefore exacerbated the situation. Really though what the order should have done was send somebody out to check in on Shmi every now and then anyways when he started getting these visions. He already had the attachment no need to let things fester.

 

So you think hundreds of novels and comic books are going to just be washed down the drain completely? All the money fans spent on those books wasted? I doubt Lucasfilm and Disney are going to do that. There'll be some contradiction between the ST and the EU, I have no doubt about that . . . heck, the EU even contradicts itself, sometimes. I don't think it'll be as significant as you're making it out to be, though, Eternal Hero.

 

I don't think many of the higher-ups know much EU.
A lot of casual fans would be shocked. So will these execs.
And it would sacrifice years of EU for $. Because the movie will make more. And maybe a contradictory plot will make more. Star Wars doesn't respect its fans that much.

 

I don't get why some of you are so convinced that the ST and EU are going to irreparably contradict one another. That makes no sense to me. There were no major contradictions when the prequels came out, and there will be no major contradictions this time around, either (yes, I know about Boba Fett, but Dark Horse found some clever ways to fix that). All the novels and comic books that occur post-ROTJ make up over 25 years of history. Yet, you guys think that a single 2 1/2-hour movie will wipe out all of the most important events from that time frame. I don't buy that for a second.

 

May I bring TCW to your attention?

 

Anakin having a family isn't what lead to his downfall - just the opposite - Luke saved his soul.

Anakin fell because of his own fears and selfishness.

We don't know exactly what Luke knows about the Jedi Order's rules or his opinion on them.

And, although it is never gone into in the movies, the fact that no-force powered being can have force powered children must logically mean that a Jedi's child might not necessarily have any aptitude for the Force.

 

If I can bring to everybody's attention: in the official EU timeline, there is six-year gap between the last Bantam book (Vision of the Future, in the timeline not published) and Vector Prime (the first post-ROTJ book by Del Rey). There are some children's books in this time period that I think could very well be retconned/destroyed. So it is actually very possible that the new trilogy could be here or just after Fate of the Jedi as crazy as that sounds. Have cameos from the original cast and new cast with Jaina, Jag, and Ben.

 

It was meant to represent how the Jedi Order's rigidness help to hinder its own growth and blinded itself to the dangers within and without.

That rule in itself wasn't the actual problem - even if Anakin had been allowed to marry openly he would still have acted as he did. Keeping it secret added pressure but it was only one of many factors.

And Luke doesn't really ignore Yoda and Kenobi's advice in ROTJ, in fact he follows their thinking in looking at it from a certain point of view.

 

I'd have loved Lucas to adapt The Truce At Bakura into an animated film or multi-part episodes to kick off an ongoing series Luke Skywalker series and Disney and Lucasfilm could adapt certain novels or use characters in the same way, but taking a fresh new run at the while franchise is cool.

 

Of course it lead to his downfall. His first move toward the darkside was murdering the a village of sand people because his mother, were most Jedi don't know their mothers and wouldn't be in that position. Second, the whole point of RotS is that Anakin is scared to lose Padme and does anything he has to not lose her. His fears and selfishness are all in regards to his family. They were the catalyst. If he doesn't form that attachment to Padme he doesn't have the fear of losing her and he isn't tempted by Palpatine. The samething that lead to downfall also saved him, but the second doesn't happen without the first.

 

Yes, but the rule against attachment itself is not really the cause of anything - I think i said earlier that Anakin would still have acted as he did even if Jedi could have had relationships. I thought about this and I'm wrong. If Jedi had families he could have discussed his fears and returned to Tatooine much sooner and Shmi may not have died.

This isn't taking away the responsibility Anakin has to bare, but the rigid rules didn't make things better.

Throughout the Prequels and TCW, Yoda is often critical of many aspects of Jedi life.

It is plausible that Yoda and Luke discussed such issues during the training in Dagobah.

Or perhaps Yoda never told Luke the old ways, intending for Luke to find his own path.

 

I'm not blaming the rule itself, I'm blaming Anakin for not following it like he should have.

Even the argumen that the rule prevented Anakin from going to Yoda or Obi-wan for help.....it didn't stop him from doing anything. He could have gone to them for help, he CHOOSE not too because he knew that part of their solution would be to make him choose Padme for the Jedi Order, and Anakin didn't want to make that choice.

At the end of the day Anakin, is the poster boy for why that rule exists.

 

Yes, Anakin is responsible for his actions.

But the fact that the Order is so uncompromising and rigid, is one of the reason Palpatine was able to manipulate Anakin.

There was nothing wrong with the rules of the Order, but the Order has its own responsibility to bear in it's downfall.

 

Watch Revene of the Sith, you'll see why they are uncompromising when it comes to the Dark Side. Anakins actions just validate their concerns/actions/rules.

 

What I'm trying stay is that marriage and relationships won't lead a Jedi to doom. And it wasn't the only problem Anakin had.

Even if Anakin had never met Padme again after TPM, he was still going to butcher that Tuskin tribe.

 

When everything is going great marriage and relationships won't lead a Jedi to doom. But the fear, angry, insecurity, that can and does come when relationships aren't going great or when they end have the potential to lead a Jedi to the dark side, which is what we saw happen to Anakin. The 2 years he was with Padma during the war were fine, but when he though he might lose her......

The thing with Shmi and the Tuskin was more out of his control (he wasn't his fault they didn't find until he was 10). He is still responsibile for his actions but he formed that attachment before he was in a position were he knew he shouldn't. That little "episode" just demonstrates that Anakin doesn't deal with loss very well and thats why allowing himself to get attached to Padme as well was so dangerous for him, and why that rule exists.

 

I wouldn't consider that a "little episode" - he murdered people, including children - and it wasn't "out of his control" - he lost control - but that is no excuse.

And he knew it too.

And bad relationships and end of marriages are very difficult and can be life changing, but it doesn't always lead to doom and devastation.

 

Thats why I put episode in quotes, I know its not alittle episode and it was quite series, but I called that any way.....

What was out of his control was bein ga normal child who had an attachment with his mother.

And those bad relaltionships and ending of mariages and releationships do cause those negative feelings that are dangerous to a Jedi. Sure not every Jedi who's wife leaves him or dies is going to become a Sith, but there is a risk of it because what they would be going through emotionally. So the order simly took that option away from the Jedi to avoid that situation altogether.

 

Anakin had a long list of issues, but look at the other Jedi.

If Kenobi had had a family, it is very unlikely he would have acted remotely the way Anakin does.

It is hard to imagine him butchering a village of Sandpeople.

Take Qui-Gonn's death for example, he had been father, brother, teacher and friend to Kenobi for over a decade. Yes, he gets angry when Maul strikes him down and very nearly kills him in his rage.

But he regains control and when he kills (or thinks he does ) Maul he is in complete control of his emotions.

So, a Jedi having a family, and all the tears and heartache involved, is always a bad thing.

 

Sorry - that was obvious but I misinterpreted.

What was out of his control was bein ga normal child who had an attachment with his mother.[/quote]

If the Jedi had allowed it, Shmi would have been living happily on Coruscant.

Though the point can be made that Anakin wasn't above breaking the rules do why didn't in the preceding ten years.

And those bad relaltionships and ending of mariages and releationships do cause those negative feelings that are dangerous to a Jedi. Sure not every Jedi who's wife leaves him or dies is going to become a Sith, but there is a risk of it because what they would be going through emotionally. So the order simly took that option away from the Jedi to avoid that situation altogether.[/quote]

Yes, I understand the motivation behind it and it does make sense.

But, that doesn't mean it is the only way.

Has any EU novel covered the issue of a family giving up there child to the Order?

Why would a parent do such a thing?

And what do the the Jedi do when the parents refuse?

 

Really? Obi-wan was pretty upset when Qui-Gon was killed. He is clearly angry at this point - - Obi-wan might have been in control more, might have have handled it better, but maybe not. If it takes getting his ass kicked and almost killed to get him back in control.......

And sure some Jedi can/will/would handle it better, but is it right or fair to tell one person he can't have a relationship when others can? Wouldn't that just create more problems? And as sure as you can be about how someone would/will handle something, you can't be 100% sure until they do it. So the Jedi did the responsible thing and just made a big, catch all rule to avoid the dangerous situation all together.

 

The Jedi Order had a no attachment rule for a reason, and Anakin is a good illustration why. But things might have changed. Luke has proved you can be attached to your friends and even to your villain of a father and still remain a good guy. The key is not to be selfish about it.

 

There's a lot of difference between the situations regarding the PT vis-à-vis the EU and the ST vis-à-vis the EU. In the case of the former, Lucas had made sure the EU for that era would be mostly a blank slate by mandating that the EU not address that era – and even then some things slipped in, like Zahn using "Spaarti cloning cylinders" in his Thrawn Trilogy. For the ST, however, virtually everything post-Endor up until, what, 40 ABY has been covered by the EU, sometimes in exacting detail. It will IMO be impossible for the creators of the ST, if they really mean to hold to that "original story" comment, not to step on the EU's toes. With a steamroller.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Thrawn Trilogy is the lynchpin of the EU. If it, or at least its major events, is directly contradicted by the new movies, then the rest of the post-Endor EU will fall like dominos.

It's not just episode 7 that's on the way, it's also episodes 8 and 9, and Disney/Lucasfilm have said they intended to keep on releasing new movies after the ST. Each of those movies, as well as the novels, comics, etc. that will inevitably be produced in the "new" continuity will have the potential to contradict and/or outright invalidate some or most of the post-Endor EU. Would you, as a canon-conscious fan, want to continue to put in time and money in the "old" continuity knowing there's always a sword of Damocles hanging over your head? I don't.

IMO the best we can hope for is that the post-Endor EU will be declared an alternate universe, and so remain canon in a way, while leaving the ST and its creators a blank slate to work with.