Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The Jedi are well established, look to see new characters appear in non force users for the most part. I do not want Ben's romance to be a Jedi.

 

Hasn't ROTS already scrubbed a portion of Tales of the Jedi. Every Jedi and his uncle were popping up as Force Ghosts in that. Yet Qui-Gon Jinn was the first to do it according to Lucas.

 

I guess since the Shadows project was "technically" a movie, it is seperate from the rest of the EU.

However, I doubt there will ever be any mention of its events or characters.

 

The most you can expect related to the EU is few characters with the same name, like Jacen and Jaina.

There is evidence to suggest that Lucas intends that Luke never marries.

It is unlikely that the name Anakin will get used again.

 

I would think that it would be more interesting that the Jedi Order is not properly re-established.

Vader and Palpatine did major damage and after 40 years Luke is still struggling to rebuild.

 

Believe what you want, perhaps you are right. Disney is a cashcow. Ben Skywalker action figures will fly off the shelves. I agree that Jaina and Ben might get reused outright. But with some much post EP 6 established, the first bearded man seen will automatically be named Kyle Katarn, even if Han just passes him in the street in an scene.

 

I honestly dont care about events happening I care about quality characters not getting destroyed

 

Define 'properly reestablished'. Do I expect to see Jedi besides Luke and Leia's direct line? Yes. Do I expect them to have a full temple on Coruscant, holocrons, and all that? No. Do I expect the group to be large? No.

40 years is more than enough to train a number of apprentices, who could have trained an apprentice of their own in that time, but it's not enough to completely rebuild an order that numbered in the hundreds if not thousands. Moreover, remember Lucas is no longer in the driver seat now... he gave the keys away and is now in the backseat yelling out instructions. Stupid back seat driver. Sure he gave them a road map but people can be talked out doing stupid things like the 'no marriage' for Luke and arguing about the names for the Solo kids. Lord, Lucas should learn there are times to back away and not kick sleeping gundarks.

He had to be talked into keeping Coruscant as the name of the Galactic Capital for Pete's sake. There are people that will talk him out of this idiocy if he persists in it, and now they even have the option of ignoring him if need be.

It is one thing to jettison a chapter of galactic history that many fans are divided and uncomfortable over, it is quite another to say Luke Skywalker the Jedi with god only knows how many love interests before Jade should be celibate. While not that many will be angered by the destruction of the NJO series, touching Zahn's work would ignite a firestorm.

 

No one is destroying the EU of the last 25 years.

It isn't like Disney is sending out its mousketeers to gather it all up and lock it away.

It is just time for a do over.

Again, I say worth it allot get Chewie back.

 

I can't say how many?

But it is going to have to be a hard and long task for Luke to track down even one, and then to convince them to join.

If it were up to me I'd say between 50 and 100.

I'm not interested in the worn out cliched Lucas bashing.

And I'm afraid I just don't get why some folks are so concerned about the fate of the EU - I too have bought all the books and comics and enjoyed them immensely - except the Legacy comic.

I think it is cool that Lucas and the TCW team have referenced them and used characters.

I'm not bothered by the fact that they will now not fit in with the movies.

I can't see it as a bad thing.

I want to understand you point of view but I haven't been able to.

Can you tell me?

 

I think it's a matter of point of view, after reading a number of your posts I had to stop and try and figure out how exactly we differed in our perspective. Unlike the Prequels we're entering a realm with very entrenched expectations compared to the Clone Wars. Sure we got glimpses of what was going on before A New Hope in the EU but nothing substantial and the only one to really reference it much at all was Zahn in the Thrawn Trilogy.

Now it's a whole different ballgame when you start talking about the post-RoTJ environment. Let me put it to you as simply as I can... I watched the OT as a kid (Born 1986 so no... not in theaters but eh) and the first book I picked up about Star Wars was Heir of the Empire (And the Thrawn Trilogy remains the only Star Wars novels my parents ever read). One of the reasons that hooked me was that fundamentally the characters were the same... it was Luke, Leia, and Han with some new additions and the plot made perfect sense to me at the time. I added those characterizations of Han, Luke, and Leia into my mind as a definitive part of who they were. Luke as an earnest farmboy who really would go for Hot Chocolate if introduced to it.

Luke Skywalker, celibate Jedi monk is a fundamentally different character then the one I fell in love with as a child. The one we've seen on screen wants relationships, friendships, attachments... he dearly loves his sister and desperately hoped to save his father. Changing that, now, after thirty years and god only knows how many written words feels like a betrayal of that character and his nature. It wouldn't be Luke Skywalker if he was childless at 63 and it certainly wouldn't be easy on the audience to have a father like that for a character and not see the mother. This is especially true when I've heard that Lucas himself went over the rough drafts of the Thrawn Trilogy and made suggestions to Zahn on where to take the story, how Luke, Leia, and Han should be further developed and so forth. In a way Lucas himself put the stamp of approval on Mara Jade when he let Zahn have Luke hand his father's lightsaber to her.

I know most EU doesn't get anywhere near that amount of attention from Lucas and that the vast majority have certainly never been read by him... but that one was, it was the flagship for the entire EU's kick off and he went over it to make sure it worked with what he thought he might do in the future. To change it when most have viewed it as good as G-level canon would be felt by many to be a horrendous betrayal.

This is also why the Special Edition's revision of the Han - Greedo stand off are so off putting to people that saw the original version. Han Solo is a guy that will shoot you first under the table, a loveable rogue. When Greedo shoots first we're completely robbed of that impression and left with no character building from the encounter. It goes from 'badass' to 'eh whatever he tried to kill him'. Something like that is not a minor little quibble, it fundamentally changes the way a character is perceived. Luke Skywalker the earnest farmboy turned Jedi Master is not the same person as Luke Skywalker, celibate Jedi Monk.

I am not fond of the NJO and subsequent books in the EU, in many ways they felt like an alternate universe... a dark universe where the good guys only won after immense cost and there was no partying at the end but an empty gulf where all those characters we'd read about before were missing. Star Wars requires hope for a better future. Furthermore, there comes a point when there's simply too much history to honestly acknowledge in a franchise such as this but at the same time completely and totally abandoned those works that captured the spirit of the Original Trilogy seems to be just as much a bone headed move as to acknowledge it all. A balance must be struck.

Imagine if Disney released a new Spider-Man movie, where it turned out Peter Parker was for some reason sworn to celibacy. Would it still be Peter Parker anymore...? Worse yet imagine if they made the Spider-Man movie where he struck a deal with the devil, divorced from MJ and went a little crazy. One is a blatant change of character outside of its already accepted canon, the other is a slavishly produced film that strictly follows one of the worst tales that Marvel ever offered on their stands. That is the positions that most people in these forums seem to be advocating, complete ignorance of the EU or complete adherence to the EU as it currently exists. Neither is a sane or sensible position.

What do I want personally? I want the immense influence of Timothy Zahn on Star Wars to be fully acknowledged. I want Luke Skywalker, the farmboy turned Jedi Master to have a family like any real farmboy would. I want Mara Jade canonized with an appearance and the travesties called the Vong Invasion, Second Galactic Civil War, and Aboleth hurled into oblivion where they belong. I want the family dynamics first posited by the EU to be fully played upon in the new movies... Jacen, Jaina, Anakin (Damn that name is going to relegate him to background status), and Ben Skywalker to be our next generation of Jedi while Luke plays the role of Yoda and Mara Jade plays the role of Mace in the new Jedi Order (No council please, small is good). I want Han and Chewie to still be around causing mayhem and trouble despite Han's age, and Leia to roll her eyes in the background as he wanders off in the battered heap call the Falcon.

The enemies, plot, and so forth can wait until we've made sure we got the characters how they should be... the same way they were represented in the Original Trilogy and not devote ourselves to following the dictates of George Lucas... let someone else carry the torch, isn't that the whole point of these films anyway?

 

stellarmagic01, I want to have proper read through that post but in a about 20 minutes I'm going get incredibly busy. Then I need to concentrate on finishing up a little project.

I'll have a sit later on at my desktop (much easier for me to respond to each paragraph that way) and be able to give it the proper attention.

Laters

 

I'd still see the movie, but I'd stop buying any books or merchandise. The single cohesive universe that has been building over the last 20 years (since Thrawn books, the OT was the best, but 3 movies does not a universe make) is the appeal for me. Knowing that Winter's mother is a background character in the PT connects the movies together (this is just a single example, the sum of these details makes the world feel alive).

 

Agreed. The shadows of the empire multimedia project was a test by lucasfilm to see if there was enough of a fanbase to even do the prequels. I dont have the source handy, but if anyone questions this, I'll try to dig it up.

 

In fact, it would make more sense to keep the NJO and scrap Dark Nest, LOTF and FOTJ... that way, they get rid of the "redundant" Anakin (there's no need to even mention him, or even the Vong war), but keep the twins, Mara AND Ben. That would be the best starting point for the movie to be able to give a VERY brief explanation of the current status in the opening crawl: Luke has recently become a father, Han has lost his buddy, the galaxy mantains a fragile peace, and the Jedi Order is slowly reestablishing itself across the galaxy, while a new threat approaches from the dark....

 

Luke skywalker lived the first 20 years of his life on a desert planet with no one but his aunty and uncle working on moisture vaporators. To think that he wouldn't want to get down and jiggy with a hot red headed Jedi is just ignorant. These movies will definitely establish Mara jade in a nod to the thrawn trilogy.

I also believe that Ben Skywalker and jaina will be the main protagonists, mainly because of the rumors regarding a main female character.

Also if you read Pablo Hidalgos star wars blog, you'll see that he mentions when they first started writing the treatments they asked him several questions regarding continuity. Based on this I can conclusively say that the majority of the EU will be included in the ST.

 

In some ways the Thrawn Trilogy is the most likely to be kept or at least not torched, because it's the most well known out of all the post ROTJ stuff and they can take the twins names etc and mention little else, the idea that it took a while to overcome some sort of Imperial Remnant and some people will be happy to retcon everything in once again.

OTOH it's also some of the easiest to torch because if they decide to go with different names or versions of Han and Leia's children, never got together or remained childless then pretty much everything else is automatically toast as a semi cohesive universe (with the amount of retcons they've done over the years and "levels of canon" I don't necessarily agree with the idea that it's a perfect continuity universe anyway). I think it's more likely that Jacen/Jaina names will make an appearance but I think poor Anakin Solo's gonna get written out as ever having exsisted, especially if there are also going to be other plot points about how Luke/Leia coped with the aftermath of Vader.

I'm really not sure we can make any judgements on that based on the movies themselves. Yes, Luke did want attachements to his father, Ben, Leia etc in the OT and clearly he did within the EU, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Post ROTJ he wants to be a father himself or that he didn't decided to prioritize other things. I can name friends and relatives who adore their family and neices/nephews, godchildren etc but have never wanted children personally or who's jobs prevented them from having children. I can see a Luke who thought dedicating himself to training apprentices and dedicting his life to re-establishing the Jedi Order meant he decided not to get married himself, because those would be his children and legacy.

I think it's more likely than not that he'll have a family in the next trilogy whether or not it includes Ben and/or Mara, especially as the writer excels at writing family based stories, and the temptations of the next generation of Skywalkers to play with, but I don't think it would be fundamentally at odds with the character. He didn't marry for years in the EU anyway, even though he did have a few love interests. He had a lot of things going on that didn't didn't really mess with his "earnest farm boy so should want a bunch of kids" characterisation.

As for Mara, I'm really not the character's biggest fan but I can see her appearing because she is a popular character. Once again it just depends whether they'll use the names and create their own backstory and characterisation, use the characterisation but streamline it so it doesn't get too bulky after 100s of books or decide some characters have too much baggage with them at this point and simply create their own.

 

The amount of denial and over importance placed into the post-Jedi EU in this thread is hilarious.

 

I wonder if the people who thought the world was flat said to all the people who disagreed with them that they were in denial too?

 

Figures of a new, orginal character will fly off the shelves too.

 

Really? What would happen?

 

Why must a balance be struck? For most fans those books don't inform Lukes character at all and/or would see a movie as more important in his development/to his character.

Sony did just release a Spider-Man movie that ignored the 3 movies that came before as well 40-50 years of comic history.... It did pretty well adn comic fans were pissed about it. As for the deal with the Devil, the Brand New Day stuff that came after was some of the best Spider-man stuff in years. THrowing out the EU might very well produce the best Luke, Han, Leia story told since the OT.

You talked about Luke's character but you're stuck on him as a farmboy. He isn't ONLY a farmboy anymore. He is a rebel, a leader, pilot, and a Jedi master. All those other things are going to impact him as a character moving forward. You can't just "freeze" him in one stage of his development.

And what you're saying here is the problem with including SOME EU and not all. You didn't like the Vong Invasion, The Civil War, Aboleth......but others do. Others would want the Vong Invasion canonized and things you like thrown out. I don't want to see those characters int he movie. So who should the film makers try to keep happy, you or me? Or should they just maket he movie THEY want to make? (which is what they'll do).

 

Luke is all of those later things, but the farmboy element underpins all the rest - that's why he has always remained compassionate and (for lack of a better word) humble.

 

But you can't say "he is a farmboy, of course he'd get married". First, we dunno if 'farm boy Luke" wanted to get married. Second, the character goes through a lot in a 5 year time span, his desires and priorities probably change.

 

I'm hoping GL changes his mind abt Luke never being married or having children.

However, I don't want to see Mara Jade in this movie. I like the Zahn books but that should remain its own thing.

With so many returning characters, recurring themes, classic SW "business" that has to be there, reprised music, and little easter eggs they'll be peppering the movie with, there has to be some really fresh material or it will be an exercise in self-reference.