Discussion Should there be a gay character in Episode VII Pt 2

They're just gonna lock this again.

 

People don't catch on do they? This is one of those touchy subjects that generally doesn't end well there's too many people who aren't open to it. And trying to control every one now is silly because eventually they are going to see it and have an opinion anyways. If you really want to be real about this.

Do you really want to see this happen to Star Wars?

And then here we go....


Look at this, honest to God look at this
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gay dumbledore&oq=gay dumbledore&gs_l=youtube-reduced.3...888.5756.0.5914.24.20.3.1.1.1.557.2253.9j4j2j5-1.16.0...0.0...1ac.1.yJxkxv1WDv0


Do we REALLY want to give Stars Wars this kind of over blown attention? You can not limit the audience's reception.

Let me be frank, it's not worth it. It's just going to open characters up to ridicule and add a un-necessarily over tone of humor to the franchise..

Is it really that important? Who cares if they are gay?

Look what it did to the reception of the character. And I've heard enough about Skyfall if Bond is gay or not.

This thread was closed for a reason and I suspect it will be closed again. Enough is enough. Do you really want to see homosexuality portrayed by film? Look at the sort of way it's often receipted or handled. You don't realize by having a gay character you're creating a generalization, stereotype of what a gay character is. You're showing the world how a gay character is presented and what a gay character is portraying or portrayed as. Can't characters that look straight turn out to be gay ? I really don't need a character that is obviously flaming gay in star wars. And I don't need gay romance scenes. It's a action, adventure series. If they do have a gay character it should be subtle ...this is not broke back mountain.



Do you really want this or this in Star wars!?



It's Star Wars , not high art . It doesn't play the role to face overly sensitive political and social issues. It's job isn't too tactfully approach homosexuality which has never been done before in a adventure / action film series. It's not that sort of art . It's a space opera and it does have some deep stuff to it if you look hard enough but nothing like this...

If you want a worth while gay film watch Brokeback mountain or something..

I don't see any reason to focus on gay characters and their relationships.

If it's very subtle I guess it would be perfectly fine and acceptable with me to have a obviously yet subtlety gay character in the movies...

Counting down the moments until closed on this one, it's going to end up the same way. I'm sorry I have gay family relatives but this thread is a bad idea and I don't think gay characters in Star Wars is necessarily a good idea either. I can't find all the words to express why but I really don't want to hear 10,000s of people go on about how so and so is gay in the new star wars films...no thanks.

 

I think what people are saying is while they are not bothered by gay people they do not want that to be what becomes the focus and the only thing talked about. No one in this thread has said they are against gays. If people can handle opposing opinions with misrepresenting the other side then they really should not be asking controversial questions. I was incredibly offended by the Christian bashing in the last thread, but I understood people had different opinions then me. Both sides are at fault on the downward spiral of this discussion.

 

I thought it was pretty harsh.

 

Hear Hear!

We could also add age to your list.

 

As well as people who identify as trans* or other non binary genders.

 

I think we should have handicapped, Jewish, female leaders, African American, gay/lesbian/transgender, children with cancer, Muslim, Hispanic, Asian, Italian, Mormon, Native American, and elderly in it, every racial, gender, religious, age or disability group there is to make it the most PC Star Wars ever. I think every moment of the movie should be a soapbox for the rights of all groups to be in Star Wars.
No, for Christ's sake, just make it a good movie.

 

Listen here. No coloreds, or else it's a slippery slope to bestiality.

 

They aren't doing their jobs very well right now. I have no idea why this forum s being treated like the Wild West of the JCC.

 

Not terribly relevant to my larger point; not meaning to insult, but that is a silly response.
Those characters fit naturally into their roles, and were the appropriate fit for that kind of story (not to mention great actors). No one said "Oh, that is the right thing to do, let's make Padme a leader, and get an African-American to play Lando to show how equal-opportunity we are." Those weren't designed for diversity alone.
Tallking about inserting a gay character in for the sake of having a gay character is exactly the kind of thing that Star Wars doesn't need. Sexuality is NOT a heavy topic in Star Wars, this is not Sex in the City. Some other show might add intrigue by adding gay characters, but NOT Star Wars, that is just stupid.

 

How do you show his sexuality if he doesn't express it? It's discriminatory to design a gay character, I know plenty of people who are gay who don't act like it. They are just regular people. How do you show a character's sexuality unless you make it really obvious or discriminate or generalize traits of their sexuality? Don't beat around the bush. If they have a gay character it will be obvious he / she is gay in a discriminatory way or there has to be a kiss or something to show that they are in deed gay.

Or he just comes out and says it in the middle of the story then I have to ask myself, why they told me this. Why I should care, how it is relevant to the characters and plot then I expect to see more about his sexuality on the side plot. If it's a big enough deal to bring up in the film then it must have some sort of importance, significance. Having characters that are gay in a film are not natural. Nothing in a film is natural because it's a orchestrated work of fiction. They design characters, they don't find them off the street! They don't design characters for no good reason...they don't leave them hanging out of place in the story and just say he's gay and we did this just for fun and giggles...


Homosexuality is natural yes but this is a designed work of authorized fiction. It's not the real world. I have no problems with homosexuality in the real world. A romance between straight couples is ALOT simpler to write . It has a long standing history of no questions, no strings attached. It's considered general , basic romantic fictional writing. Homosexuality is more complicated to write and much harder to design a homosexual character . Maybe it's just me who is being painfully honest with myself. But when I watch a film I am not thinking typically maybe so and so is homosexual. What comes natural to me is to assume that they are straight. I don't sit around thinking during my viewing experience is Indiana Jones or Han Solo bisexual? It's alot more complicated to write in then you give it credit for. And though I accept homosexuality in my life , I don't want the ridicule and jokes to pour in by those who don't. That's reality, we can all be righteous about it . We can even take the moral high ground and actually believe in the virtue of it . But the reality is that this is a complicated subjective, socially and politically sensitive . That's reality, it sucks, we can try to change it but I don't think Disney is setting out to change or alter socially and politically sensitive views of the world. It will take time , and yeah things should be different and better now. And they are , but not well enough for me to listen to a bunch of morons prat on about how gay a character is for the next decade. I rather they just make a decent film and people who want to advocate homo sexuality find another venue than a Summer action / adventure flick.

I have no problem with a gay character I just don't see how it can work without drawing way too much attention to his sexuality. I'm not going to Star Wars for homosexual awareness or to be educated...

So tell me since you are a supporter of this and I am open minded to it. Tell me how you would write a gay character into the films, tell me how the subject would come to light. That is what I want from you , every other argument in this thread is pointless. Tell me what it does for the story and how you'd go about it and we'll see if we can agree on it.

 

Did I ever say to add a stereotypical gay character into the movie and call it a day? Did any of my posts indicate such? And it's not like SW hasn't had heterosexual, hell even interspecies romance.

By writing them as how normal people would act you jabroni. No one is educating you. It's just having a character who's attracted to the same gender

 

You are making this into a soapbox issue, not anyone else; which is exactly why they shouldn't do it. All anyone else is saying is that it would feel forced in terms of inserting that into the movie, nothing about how homosexuals are treated in society. Like adding a guy in a wheelchair for the rights of the disabled. Everyone agrees that the disabled shoudl have rights, but they don't need to be in every story to avoid someone crying discrimination as a larger issue.

You continue to miss my point. Sex in the City is the kind of show where it would add intrigue to the script to put in such a character, SW is not, that is all I am saying. They are very different kinds of shows. Hoover WAS gay, that is historical, so it obviously fits.

The characters that were African American were added because they were good actors. The fact that they were African American had nothing to do with the storyline; the story went on just as they would have been if they were any other race (unlike artificially inserting a gay character, the movie did not make any point of them being African-American). Padme's leadership was central to the story, it had nothing to do with putting someone in to advance women's lib.

Yes, gay people have ordinary lives and relationships. It does not mean one hates gays simply because they don't agree with them being a character in a particular movie. There are very few relationships in Star Wars. If it was a movie that focused on a lot of relationships (or was about relationships in general), I would agree with you; some relationships would have to be gay to make it believable and proportionate to reality. But this is simply not the case.

You don't agree with my opinion, therefore you hate gays= ad hominem argument.

 

Ok, normal people so he's not screen gay, how the hell do I know he's gay then? That's discriminatory. He looks, acts "normal". Define normal. You're not making much a of statement using such a broad term as "normal". You mean like every other human being as if I can differentiate between him and every other average being, where does his homosexuality , his sexual individuality and identity fit into that exactly???

 

Example: there's an attack in the night, people are woken while still in bed, we see heads pop out from under the covers, all over the building, and in a few cases, its a pair of male heads, or female, or human + alien, popping out next to each other.

Simple way to reveal "orientation" without any actual stereotyping.

 

Who is it discriminatory to show someone who's gay and not a blatant offensive stereotype. Your loosing me here

It's simple write a dude who's like every other dude, but just likes other dudes.

 

I'm confused myself too now. Whatever I don't care. I don't care if there's a gay character in the new films either. Just God help us with the fan reception if there is. I'll have to hear about it for decades. Whatever , who the hell cares. Gay or not gay I don't care.

If they want a gay character I support your opinions and desires for one. I'm just a little sketchy on it. You're right there can be a homosexual character. I'm confused myself now.

 

But you don't care REALLY EMPHATICALLY.

 

1) Apples and pranges the way you bring friendships in, that is obviously not what the discussion is on- friendships have nothing to do with sexual orientation.

2) You are talking about a grand total of 2 romantic relationships here in 6 movies. Just on pure numbers, the odds of finding a gay relationship in 2 relationships is fairly low, thus it begins to feel like an agenda.

3) The fact that an effort is made to "fit" a certain type of character in makes a statement. If that was in the original story, and it works, then OK. But you are talking about adding a gay character for the sake of having a gay character; if you don't have an agenda, then why would you want to do that?

 

I just don't see how it could be natural , I'm no longer arguing. I don't understand my own feelings on this and I don't want to hurt yours. So I won't continue on. I was wrong, this is not a open minded and intelligent way to go about this. I guess that if I saw it in Star Wars I wouldn't think much of it I'm sure it would not be that big of a deal especially if it was done well. I don't know what has gotten into me maybe it's some sort of social programming that bleed on me because I live such a sheltered , sexually repressive life style. I'm sorry if I offended you . My argument was incomplete and flawed. I was not being fair and open to your opinions and feelings.


I don't know what was wrong with me I didn't find the right words in language to represent my true feelings and real world ideas, concepts, physical tangible things. Homosexuality is natural and I respect that it can be beautiful . I honestly feel that way for people just as much as hetero sexuality. It's physical reality, it's existence. I can't reject that I am part of that existence and should be open to the sexuality of others. It too is fractal.

I guess I'm just making an argument because my life is structured in a way where I'm translating a physical existence into a language that is sheltered and limited. The words are limited and unimaginative as a projection of the world I am centered in. The internal and external processes of the universe are always connected , entangled. My thoughts are a processed and projected by my brain and mind , my world. It's all resonance.

My subjectivity has been formed in objectivity and subjective processes as well. I guess entertainment carries with it some resonances for me that close my mind up, stereotypes , generalizations. Hollwyood is sexist and closed minded and maybe I was absorbed by that physical existence because I'm so used to it. Because it has conditioned my mentality when I think about movies it limits my use of language and philosophy of film. It's a translation of languages . Physical to mental languages.

Maybe if we had more films with sexuality and homosexuality my mind would be more open. I am not making a prior intelligent argument I am not being open minded. I am isolating myself to systems of information that are limited by simple abstracted human definitions. Defining what sexuality is in film and should be , rather than opening myself to the true and the physical reality. I have limited myself and cut myself off from a higher more celestial existence to reality a higher unification of reality. You and I are connected.

Everything is unified our thoughts to matter , and matter to our thoughts.

Thoughts are fractal and fractal is whole . Everything is fractal. I guess If I am true to everything and honest I have to see homosexuality as a natural process of life and should be available for it to appear in film.