PT The Value of Vader

Lord Tyrannus · Nov 24, 2012

tsunami1138 said: ↑

Lord Tyrannus said: ↑

tsunami1138 said: ↑

Lord Tyrannus said: ↑

tsunami1138 said: ↑

I think you should be banned from using the '/' key.

As an answer to your post - if there were no Skywalker buns in the Amidala oven, would Anakin have had visions about her dying, prompting him to move heaven and earth to find a way to prevent it, and leaving him open to the subtle manipulations of the Chancellor?

To clarify. Padme isn't pregnant. Anakin doesn't have a vision of her. They still maintain their secret marriage, but the only paranoia Anakin has is the Council finding out. Sidious still wants Anakin as his apprentice, but he doesn't have the opening that's presented with Anakin's increasing desperation. He bides his time, trying to insinuate that the Council don't trust Anakin - a line that doesn't have quite the effect it should, as Anakin isn't desperate for the title of Master in order to further his research to save Padme (because, remember, he has no reason to think her death is imminent).

Meanwhile, the Council further their investigations into the mystery Sith Lord, as Obi Wan goes to Utapau to defeat Grievous. Kenobi returns, and the Council, having already had assurances from the Chancellor that he will sue for peace as soon as peace's last obstacle, Grievous, has been removed, seek his retraction of emergency powers. Palpatine refuses. The Council immediately begin to suspect the worst, and recall Yoda and the rest of the High Council from the field to discuss the matter, fearing that something is amiss. Even Anakin realises that it's wrong that the Chancellor hasn't relinquished his command. The full might of the Council, alongside the Loyalist Committee, go to confront the Chancellor.

Palpatine is then forced to;
A) reveal his identity in a desperate attempt to maintain control, unleashing himself upon all contained within his office. Many innocent senators die, possibly including Padme. Even some of the Council die. But even the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith is no match for all of them, especially an Anakin driven by grief and rage at the death of his beloved, and at the betrayal of his father figure. Sidious is cut down, and Anakin, too dangerous to be cut loose, is counselled by his best friend (Kenobi), Yoda and Windu, and learns to let go of his hate, anger and rage...or;
B) sacrifice his emergency powers peacefully. He does exactly as the Senate request, sues for peace; which the Confederacy, no longer under the tyrannical and bloodthirsty rule of Dooku and Grievous, accept, having no real threat to counter with. Palpatine then leaves his post as Chancellor, and has to devise another way to seduce Skywalker, or find another apprentice, and come up with a new way to subvert the Galaxy to his sole rule. This might take years - he is not, after all, a young man, and possibly may never come to fruition. Meanwhile, Anakin continues with the Jedi until such time as he and Padme do conceive. He's still in touch with Palpatine, but there is no immediate threat, no vision - Anakin resigns peacefully from the Jedi Order, and goes off to live with Padme in the Naboo Lake Country, to raise his child like the father he never had.
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No, I just have certain nervous OCD memorization and writing habits with the '/', so, Luke and Leia Skywalkers are the very reason that the Galactic Empire/Sith Empire ever/even existed in the first place, therefore, they were not the last/only hopes to the galaxy!!!!
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...No, that's not right at all. Just because they may have had an indirect responsibility for it, doesn't mean they weren't the only hopes. They were the only people left with the Force potential to beat the Emperor after the Jedi Purge (aside, of course, from Anakin...).
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There are a whole list of problems and plot inconsistensies and plot holes with what you just said, I don't know how to respond, I don't know what to say; first of all, other users had told me that Luke and Leia Skywalker's conception was best for the galaxy and that the Galactic Empire would have been formed either way, even without him, and you're are contradicting them and that whole concept/idea..............

Second of all, why were Jedi Knights/Force-sensitives/people with force potential needed to defeat the Galactic Empire??? Old Grandpa Darth Sidious would have grown old and died anyway, a third plot hole in your entire idea/concept..........

Fourth of all, no offense intended here dued bro, but what the hell/heck did Anakin skywalker becoming a jedi master have anything whatsoever in the world with saving his wife from childbirth death in pregnancy???
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Christ almighty.

For starters. My post was a theory, not gospel. No offence intended, 'bro', but I couldn't care less if you think there were plot holes in it.

Second. 'Old Grandpa' still had another thirty years left in him, at least. In the GFFA, your average human can reach 120 years old, easy. Plus the midi-chlorians, plus (if you care about the EU) clone bodies. 'Old Grandpa' had a lot of tyranny left in him.

Third. Anakin knew that other Jedi had investigated the possibility of keeping people alive. Said information was sealed in restricted files within the Archive at the Jedi Temple. Said restricted files could be accessed only by Jedi carrying the rank of Master. That's why Anakin reacted with such anger when he was told by Windu that he would NOT be granted the rank of Master.
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"Old Grandpa" was not 90 years yrs old during Episode 6, ROTJ, first of all............

By keeping people alive, is that mystical lightside of the Force techniques, or secret classified medical information info, that the Jedi knights order contained?? Nah, no, I just disagree with you, no offense.... He wanted to become a Jedi master for selfish reasons of personal status, nothing to do with saving or protecting his pregnant wife!!!

tsunami1138 · Nov 24, 2012

Lord Tyrannus said: ↑

tsunami1138 said: ↑

Lord Tyrannus said: ↑

tsunami1138 said: ↑

Lord Tyrannus said: ↑

No, I just have certain nervous OCD memorization and writing habits with the '/', so, Luke and Leia Skywalkers are the very reason that the Galactic Empire/Sith Empire ever/even existed in the first place, therefore, they were not the last/only hopes to the galaxy!!!!
Click to expand...

...No, that's not right at all. Just because they may have had an indirect responsibility for it, doesn't mean they weren't the only hopes. They were the only people left with the Force potential to beat the Emperor after the Jedi Purge (aside, of course, from Anakin...).
Click to expand...

There are a whole list of problems and plot inconsistensies and plot holes with what you just said, I don't know how to respond, I don't know what to say; first of all, other users had told me that Luke and Leia Skywalker's conception was best for the galaxy and that the Galactic Empire would have been formed either way, even without him, and you're are contradicting them and that whole concept/idea..............

Second of all, why were Jedi Knights/Force-sensitives/people with force potential needed to defeat the Galactic Empire??? Old Grandpa Darth Sidious would have grown old and died anyway, a third plot hole in your entire idea/concept..........

Fourth of all, no offense intended here dued bro, but what the hell/heck did Anakin skywalker becoming a jedi master have anything whatsoever in the world with saving his wife from childbirth death in pregnancy???
Click to expand...

Christ almighty.

For starters. My post was a theory, not gospel. No offence intended, 'bro', but I couldn't care less if you think there were plot holes in it.

Second. 'Old Grandpa' still had another thirty years left in him, at least. In the GFFA, your average human can reach 120 years old, easy. Plus the midi-chlorians, plus (if you care about the EU) clone bodies. 'Old Grandpa' had a lot of tyranny left in him.

Third. Anakin knew that other Jedi had investigated the possibility of keeping people alive. Said information was sealed in restricted files within the Archive at the Jedi Temple. Said restricted files could be accessed only by Jedi carrying the rank of Master. That's why Anakin reacted with such anger when he was told by Windu that he would NOT be granted the rank of Master.
Click to expand...

"Old Grandpa" was not 90 years yrs old during Episode 6, ROTJ, first of all............

By keeping people alive, is that mystical lightside of the Force techniques, or secret classified medical information info, that the Jedi knights order contained?? Nah, no, I just disagree with you, no offense.... He wanted to become a Jedi master for selfish reasons of personal status, nothing to do with saving or protecting his pregnant wife!!!
Click to expand...

No, he was 86/87. So he'd have 33/34 years.

Disagree with me all you like. It's canon.

Lord Tyrannus · Nov 24, 2012

tsunami1138 said: ↑

Lord Tyrannus said: ↑

tsunami1138 said: ↑

Lord Tyrannus said: ↑

tsunami1138 said: ↑

...No, that's not right at all. Just because they may have had an indirect responsibility for it, doesn't mean they weren't the only hopes. They were the only people left with the Force potential to beat the Emperor after the Jedi Purge (aside, of course, from Anakin...).
Click to expand...

There are a whole list of problems and plot inconsistensies and plot holes with what you just said, I don't know how to respond, I don't know what to say; first of all, other users had told me that Luke and Leia Skywalker's conception was best for the galaxy and that the Galactic Empire would have been formed either way, even without him, and you're are contradicting them and that whole concept/idea..............

Second of all, why were Jedi Knights/Force-sensitives/people with force potential needed to defeat the Galactic Empire??? Old Grandpa Darth Sidious would have grown old and died anyway, a third plot hole in your entire idea/concept..........

Fourth of all, no offense intended here dued bro, but what the hell/heck did Anakin skywalker becoming a jedi master have anything whatsoever in the world with saving his wife from childbirth death in pregnancy???
Click to expand...

Christ almighty.

For starters. My post was a theory, not gospel. No offence intended, 'bro', but I couldn't care less if you think there were plot holes in it.

Second. 'Old Grandpa' still had another thirty years left in him, at least. In the GFFA, your average human can reach 120 years old, easy. Plus the midi-chlorians, plus (if you care about the EU) clone bodies. 'Old Grandpa' had a lot of tyranny left in him.

Third. Anakin knew that other Jedi had investigated the possibility of keeping people alive. Said information was sealed in restricted files within the Archive at the Jedi Temple. Said restricted files could be accessed only by Jedi carrying the rank of Master. That's why Anakin reacted with such anger when he was told by Windu that he would NOT be granted the rank of Master.
Click to expand...

"Old Grandpa" was not 90 years yrs old during Episode 6, ROTJ, first of all............

By keeping people alive, is that mystical lightside of the Force techniques, or secret classified medical information info, that the Jedi knights order contained?? Nah, no, I just disagree with you, no offense.... He wanted to become a Jedi master for selfish reasons of personal status, nothing to do with saving or protecting his pregnant wife!!!
Click to expand...

No, he was 86/87. So he'd have 33/34 years.

Disagree with me all you like. It's canon.
Click to expand...

It was not like the Skywalker twins were needed to prevent an eternal reign of darkness over the galaxy, and where are you getting the information/info about Jedi Masters and saving people from death???? Anakin Skywalker just wanted to become a Jedi Master because he was a selfish person who wanted power and status for himself.......

tsunami1138 · Nov 24, 2012

I'm bored of you now.

Lord Tyrannus · Nov 24, 2012

tsunami1138 said: ↑

I'm bored of you now.
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Anakin Skywalker wanted to become a Jedi Master so that he could get more power and influence and status, it had nothing to do with his wife.........

Lee_ · Nov 24, 2012

JoeyArnold said: ↑

Who killed the jedi in the Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith? Didn't the Clone Troopers kill most of the jedi under the order 66 that Darth Sideous executed? Because doesn't that reduce the value of Darth Vader, who was once Anakin Skywalker? Did Sideous really need Vader's help? Because most of the jedi were killed by the clone army that later become Storm Troopers.

Vader assists in zapping Mace Windu. Vader fails at murdering Obi Won Kenobi but was able to kill a bunch of children jedi.

So, how much value did Vader have, because I was pretty scared in A New Hope when "Ben" Kenobi described how Vader hunted down and destroyed almost all of the jedi. But in Ep.III, they do not show Vader killing jedi. They only show Vader going to kill children and trying to kill his own master.

I love Vader, but I am just saying that order 66 kind of weakened the Value of Vader a bit, in my mind. Someday, Disney & Lucas Films can go on to make films that show sith lord Vader killing and murdering jedi in order to show how valuable Vader was for Sideous.
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Not just the children, but the padowans (sp?) that were young adults or teens (remember the security hologram, those weren't children he was killing).

Anakin played a vital role in the overall strategy.

Lee_ · Nov 24, 2012

JoeyArnold said: ↑

Wanting to save your wife is a separate issue from "The jedi are now bad issue." I understand to some extent that Anakin wanted to save his wife, but at what cost? I think Padme asked Anakin the same question in ROTS. At what cost? Is Anakin so desperate that he is willing to do anything Sidious tells him, including killing babies and his best from named Kenobi? Anakin is willing to kill a bunch of babies in order to keep one woman and two new babies alive? Was Anakin really that selfish? Anakin really believed that his nightmare would come true?
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Sidious had twisted his mind and turned him evil, and made him think it was the Jedi who were truly evil; he had used Anakin's fears of losing Padme (stoked by having lost his mother) and Anankin's somewhat dark tendencies that he already had to totally turn Anakin.

There are hints all along that Anakin is gradually turning, even though his behavior doesn't actually turn until he hacks Mace's arm off. There are flashes of evil all along. He even tells Padme "I found a way to save you," referring to something he knows is from the dark side.

Darth_Kiryan · Nov 25, 2012

I know you have been banned and all, but....

Lord Tyrannus said: ↑

tsunami1138 said: ↑

I'm bored of you now.
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Anakin Skywalker wanted to become a Jedi Master so that he could get more power and influence and status, it had nothing to do with his wife.........
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you know, part of that was actually because he believed he was entitled to it because of his 'chosen one' status.

Also, Luke and Leia, Anakin and Padme, hell even Obi-wan at the time, they are not necessary for the Empire to have come into fruition. If it wasn't sidious, it could have been the next generation of Sith Lords after him. It didn't matter. The Revenge of the Sith was going to happen regardless. That is the whole point of the Line of Bane and Rule of Two

I am so going to ask a mod to lock this.

DarthBoba · Nov 25, 2012

I would say that this thread has long since gone off the rails. Locking.

Ron Fett · Nov 27, 2012

Why must you make so many polls?

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PT The Value of Vader

How Valuable was Vader?

Sideous would have died without Vader

Vader & Sideous were serious business partners

Vader was not as valuable as Sideous said he was

The Clone Troopers were more valuable to Sideous than Vader was

Vader was just one of the many secret apprentices of Sideous

Vader was just a weak fallen jedi in a black suite

10 out of 10: Vader was the most valuable thing Sideous had

5 out of 10: Sideous gives Vader an average score

Priceless. Vader was priceless to SIdeous

0: Sideous never really cared too much for Vader

Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan

tsunami1138 Jedi Master

Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan

tsunami1138 Jedi Master

Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan

Lee_ Force Ghost

Lee_ Force Ghost

Darth_Kiryan Jedi Master

DarthBoba Manager Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Ron Fett Jedi Padawan