Discussion Why all the EU Hatred?

I'll take your comment in the spirit intended, but it almost sounds insulting. Sometimes, to deal with day to day BS, a good cure is to slip into a good SW book or comic. Speaking only for myself, the fact that it's blended into a timeline, which for the most part, makes it all the more fun... gives the feeling that you are part of a huge history, fictional though it may be. I stayed away from the EU most of it's existance, and now that I'm in it, I'm having fun with it.
But I'll say it again.. LF has no problem taking my money when I buy their LICENCED products.. which I buy to get lost in a fictional universe. But the more retcons are created, the more it's like I feel like I've had my money stolen from me, because.. "Sorry, kid.. but the book you just spent your hard earned money on?.. you can toss it in the garbage now. But thanks for the spare change!"
If you don't get into the EU, that's your choice, it's a free country. But if you don't read it, please don't criticize those that do, at least until you know what it is you're criticising, okay?
EDIT: I've read some more of your post, and actually.. it sounds like you're very familliar with the EU. So.. that part of what I said... 'Never mind", lol!

 

I think it's a perfect word. That's exactly how I will feel.

 

I'm not sure off the top of my head, but has anyone besides Zahn written Thrawn? No?

I think we know why he's consistent in portrayal then.

 

Let me take a moment to get the back of the pro-EU camp for a moment: yes, they (and I should say we, because I very much have done the same myself) take the EU quite seriously. And there's a very simple and quite important reason for that: because we were told to do so. We were told that these books work in conjunction with the films and together form a cohesive whole; we were told that film, book and comic were all part of the same single grand tapestry. Of course we acted accordingly. And we spent a lot of money in the course of that. I have four bookshelves of EU material, collected over the course of thirty years or so, beginning with the novelizations themselves starting in 1976, then the Han and Lando books in the early 1980s, then the West End stuff in 1987, followed by the emergence of the EU proper in 1991-1992. I did that because I was told it all mattered. A lot of people were told that. Now we're being told it doesn't.

The ill feelings some are undoubtedly feeling now are really tied into a greater single issue: LFL is, and has historically been, quite fond of saying one thing and then suddenly changing their minds later and saying the opposite thing with equal conviction. The instances that illustrate this are legion: the Marvel comics were part of the story, then they weren't, then they were again; there were going to be twelve films, then nine, then it was going to be just six and he never really wanted to do more, then he's doing nine again but it won't be him doing them; the EU is part of the story, now it may not be. And we are always caught in the precarious position of having no choice but to take them at their word - until it changes again, and we're left to cope with the complete contradiction of it all. And, really, can you say that you're not put off by all these reversals? At this point, can you honestly say you don't understand why fans of a certain level of experience or more aren't either severely gun-shy with all this mind-changing anymore, or just flat-out cheesed off by it?

 

Stackpole might have done a bit of Thrawn in "Side Trip" - without re-reading it I couldn't be certain.

 

Zahn and Stackpole tend to exchange bits of their drafts when they use each other's characters for consistency's sake, so even then it's not surprising.

 

Zahn and Stackpole tend to exchange bits of their drafts when they use each other's characters for consistency's sake, so even then it's not surprising.[/quote]
Well, whoever wrote which bits of it, still a very good story - only time we get to see Corran and Hal operating as a team and doing real Corsec work together, IIRC.

 

I've spent thousands of dollars on SW books alone. That doesn't even factor in all of the toys and other merchandise I've purchased over the years. I do not and will not regret that if the EU is reversed, but I will be disappointed and be forced to view it very differently.

I think the most disappointing aspect of this is exactly what you say: "we were told to [take the EU quite seriously]." Early on Lucas spoke of the EU as growing out of the films. He talked about how it was his goal to keep things very consistent so that it didn't become some irrelevant fiction. He approved specific ideas for the Thrawn trilogy, Shadows of the Empire, and other pieces. He vetoed ideas (and has continued to do so) that conflicted too greatly with his vision of the story.

If he is going to all of the trouble to maintain consistency then why abandon it now?

I think in the end maybe not all of the EU will be destroyed. Perhaps Arndt is running ideas past Leland Chee for high level consistency. Maybe Lucas wants to keep as much EU intact as he can while not hamstringing the writers of the new films. But if all of the EU, or the majority, is destroyed it does seem like we've been led up the garden path just a bit.

 

Yes, we bought the tickets and the merchandise and made it a pop-cultural phenomenon, but that's because we liked it. Your money only paid for a chance to see a film, or own a replica of a character or prop. That's it, done. George Lucas owes you nothing else, and you owe him nothing else but to let him go about his business and either give him (and Disney) money for things you like or stop giving him (and Disney) money for things you don't. Nobody is opening up your wallet and stealing your cash.

 

Coke ads traditionally depict young people having fun at the beach (or maybe world unity on occasion). Deodorants ads sell you the idea that you'll be irresistible to the opposite sex with their product. One car ad may sell the image of being hip, cool and mobile, while another sells the image of a peaceful, relaxing drive with the wife and kids. "Sell the sizzle, not the steak (o sausage)" is a marketing aphorism for a reason.

"Official continuity" is the sizzle. At the end of the day, whether you think you're buying youthful fun in the sun, attractiveness or coolness, in reality you're buying a coke, or a deodorant, or a car, and the same goes for a Star Wars novel--you're not actually buying part of some grand galactic tapestry that spans millennia, you're buying a book. And just as you may momentarily feel youthful while you drink that coke, you may indulge in the pleasant fiction that "this is the real Star Wars story" while you read that book. But once you finish, you got what you paid for and that experience is over.

It's unfortunate if any of you mistook the sizzle for the steak, but it's not like this isn't part of the everyday experience of being a consumer in the real world.

 

To be honest, I never delved in too much into the EU. Despite the whole continuity thing, I never bought the idea that George Lucas would end up resurrecting the Emperor and turning Luke to the dark side. It always seemed to me as if a lot of the things, in particular the things set after ROTJ in the EU, were simply ideas that anybody could have come up with, and that in the end George Lucas approved it simply to keep a story going where he would not be making films. He said at one point that the EU was a different world from his, and that he tried to keep it consistent. Somewhere in the past 2 years or so, he changed his mind and decided to make more movies.

And as I said before, and as he has said before, the stories that happen in that time period where not the ones he would have told in film.

I understand that many might be frustrated by the constant change of mind on behalf of George Lucas (which I am), but now that Episode 7 is a fact, the EU set after ROTJ faces an uncertain future.

 

It was George's idea to resurrect the Emperor, actually. IMO, George saw an opportunity to get a "sequel trilogy" with Dark Empire, or at least incorporate some of its ideas into something he wouldn't have to devote years of development into.

 

Oh.. Puh-lease. I tried being respectful.. but, really.. how simplistic ( not to mention superficial and insulting) an argument could you possibly give to our opinions..??
When we buy merchandise on a certain pretense, which turns out later to be false...then yes, actually... that's exactly what they're doing.. stealing. And it's a slap in the face, especially from someone who's profited from MY money! So, did I like it, and get enjoyment? Sure. But since I can't now, if these stories are oblitorated, it's not exactly an even trade anymore.

 

Ok, consumer products, and the EU are two totally different things. You're talking coporeal and non-coporeal and calling them the same. One is tangible and one is an idea. And, to be frank.. I'd say the entire idea of treating SW as purely a moneymaking franchise, and nothing more, is not only not addressing the concerns of pro-EU fans.. (and mark my words here...) but is becoming, and will prove to be, the downfall of the franchise as a whole. I, for one... would hate to see that occur. It happens to be a lot more to a lot of us.

 

I think you make some interesting arguments here, but I think you're making the wrong comparison. Because people have been told something what something is they are purchasing (not given images to make connections in their minds) there is a representation made.

I liken it to my car not functioning properly, I take it to the mechanic and he calls me and tells me he found out what was wrong with my car and has repaired it. The cost will be $X and I can pick it up later today. I go pick up the car, pay the bill, take the car home, and the next day it won't even start. The mechanic has made a representation of his services and is obligated to take my car back to the shop and determine what is wrong. His initial representation of the repairs was inaccurate and hence he is responsible at this point to repair the vehicle.

 

I will always consider the EU as factual Star Wars lore according to the levels of G, T, C, S and N Canon. That is all.

 

Being a fan of something and being a consumer tend to be mutually exclusive, the two are very different viewpoints.

A consumer is not guaranteed to buy the next SW product that bears its name, a fan will likely do so - why? Because they are a fan of the line, they are enthusiastic and passionate and care about it to a far stronger than the consumer. For the consumer, a purchase is simply a purchase, based on certain reasons; for a fan, it's something more.

Now sure, if the EU gets tossed out the window, an awful lot of fans may well decide to switch to the consumer mode and conclude: Screw this for a lark. Will that be to SW' benefit? No, not in any respect. It would be a massive and entirely avoidable own goal.

If anything that the EU has been permitted to go as far as it has says no one at LFL knew Lucas was even considering doing eps 7-9. Or that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. In any case, if LFL and Disney can avoid a clusterfrell on this very poisoned chalice they've been sold by Lucas, they'll be doing very well indeed.

 

I'm not trying to insult anybody. I'm simply saying that Star Wars became famous because we bought the things and we liked it. I'm not trying to offend anybody here, I'm simply trying to say that if you bought the EU stuff, you should have known that George Lucas could have thrown it into an alternative timeline or done whatever he wants with it, even overriden the EU. After all, it's his universe. And yes, George Lucas owes you nothing. You can either continue to buy him stuff or stop doing it, but nobody is forcing you to buy it nor are they stealing your money.

 

I switched to Consumer mode after Dark Nest... and I sold all the EU books I owned that I didn't like (which was the vast majority of them). I kept TTT, Hand of Thrawn Duology, Survivor's Quest, and the X-wing novels... everything else I just tossed. One read was enough for most of them anyway.

 

That's more of speculation rather than an actual fact, from Wookiepedia:
It is unclear if Lucas suggested the concept himself or merely approved it when pitched (Veitch has made conflicting comments regarding this).

 

It's pretty well accepted as fact around here. Go visit the EU forum sometime.

 

Well, It might be here, but according to a reliable source, it might not be true.

 

Wookiepedia isn't a "reliable source" at all. Anyone can edit it to say anything, and that actually happens alot there.

 

I believe the original idea was for Darth Vader, or an imposter, to appear in the Dark Empire trilogy, but Lucas said no way. I think the Emperor was a compromise that Lucas agreed to. Or so I've read......

 

Not so much a compromise as Lucas basically telling them to do it.