Amph ITT...I'm Batman (Discussion)

Get out

 

INORITE

 

Hey, I liked it too. Possibly more than TDK (both of them have extremely convoluted plots).Batman Begins is still my favorite out of three.

 

BF2K1, please take this person out with you as you leave. Monsters, the pair of you.

 

In itself it doesn't ruin the movie. But it certainly contributes to the effort of the film's legion of other flaws to ruin the film.

I've already griped about this film after its premiere, so there's no need to repeat all the failings I thought it suffered from. What I will repeat, however, is that upon my (finally!) second viewing, the Catwoman romance didn't seem so abrupt.


My brother brought over his copy of the blu-ray trilogy set, and TDKR special features is pretty neat. Some fun dialogue from Hardy about his sewer fight with Batman.

 

I just thought it would have been great if when Batman is flying over one of the bridges with the nuke, the nuke would get caught on the bridge and fall off. Then Batman would do an EPIC FACEPALM for 6.5 minutes as he flew away and left Gotham to asplode.

 

Alright, let's go through this more slowly then. We know that Miranda Tate is quite dedicated to anti-poverty efforts. She thinks the current economic climate is deeply unfair and would like to help the disadvantaged. Is that really how Talia Al'Ghul feels, or was that just pretense to attract Bruce Wayne? Her father's positions don't really help shed light on this, as his concern was more with justice than with social structure and equality, which is a question he never quite delved into. Nor does her brief time either as Talia or as a five year old help give us any perspective here. What about the relationship between her and Wayne? Is he really the sort of person she would feel romantic attraction to, if not for her vendetta against him? Or is she merely pretending to help win his trust? Even in spite of her vendetta, does she have some literal attraction to him that she has to struggle with or suppress in order to complete her plot? Is the huge casualty count an unpleasant but necessary effect of her goals, as it seemed to be for her father before her? Or is she more vindictive, actually relishing the destruction itself for the pain she thinks it will cause Wayne? Does she feel wealth is inherently evil, and that income inequality is an important issue, or is it merely a tool?

These are just some of the pretty obvious questions the film raises about the character. You know what the answer to all of them is? I don't know. Because the only time we saw her is when she was hopping around as a prepubescent child and then again when she was bleeding to death.

 

C'mon, Marion Cotillard vs. Maggie Cabbage Patch Face? No contest.

 

You may stay for noting the uncanny resemblance of Maggie to a Cabbage Patch Kid.

 

Ender, you seem to seriously dislike TDKR, yet (IIRC) you thought The Amazing Spider-Man was a perfect Spidey flick?

 

Because the character of Spiderman was well done.

They got Batman pretty close in BB, and TDK - minus the detective work - but in Rises it's just... meh.

Batman would not take 8 years off after 2 years of activity.

 

I agree, 8 years was too much!

 

Ok, but as suggested (at length) in this thread, there's more to a movie than just the hero. Everything around that well-done Spider-Man character was about as flawed as the details in TDKR (poor effects, poor story, poor climax, poor portrayal of Uncle Ben).

Isn't it a tad hypocritical to accuse TDKR of being a bad movie while praising The Amazing Spider-Man despite it suffering from its own assortment of serious flaws?

 

I actually thought a lot of the parts of Uncle Ben's portrayal were okay. Giving more of the reality of their involvement in the sloppy business of child-rearing was one of the few things this new take on the franchise did alright.

 

As previously discussed in this thread, Batman was most-likely still active after TDK. He just kept a low-profile. After all, he had the cave rebuilt for a reason, and Alfred clearly says in TDKR something along the lines of "You haven't been down here [in the cave] in years." So it's obvious that Bruce used the cave after TDK. And even Blake uses the words, "the last confirmed sighting of the Batman," again suggesting that the Batman might still have been active after TDK, but just more subtle.

Also, this thread already covered that Bruce might have been forced into eventual retirement by his failing body. He is after all just a man, and I'm sure his body could only take so much.


Bale is a pretty damn good Batman/Bruce. And standing by your logic that a well-executed superhero yields an excellent movie would make TDKR no worse than The Amazing Spider-Man. In fact, by that logic, TDKR would be considered a pretty damn fine movie.

 

More specifically, I was referring to Ben's handling of the fight between Peter and Flash. Ben's "Did you humiliate that boy?" bit was laughable. The absence of a "Great power, great responsibility" mantra is also glaring. And yes, I know that some of you actually prefer the "Great power, great responsibility" thing being more vague this time around, but a lot of fans similarly don't.


What's more is that line is essential to the character of Uncle Ben. It's as essential to that character as Talia's internal conflict between her devotion to her father and her love for Batman is to her. Without that element in TDKR, Talia's character was ruined. Why wouldn't it stand that Ben's character was similarly ruined by the absence of that line? Sure it was implied, but a lot of things were also implied about Talia (hell, just read through this thread to find defenses about Talia's portrayal).

My point, however, is that it's slightly hypocritical to blast one movie for its glaring flaws while ignoring/overlooking/forgiving another movie for similar flaws.

 

I wasn't as much disturbed by that. I don't know that I actually gave it much thought at all. What was more problematic for me is that Peter's motivations always seemed deeply egocentric. We couldn't even get to the issue of how well they introduced his credo, because I never much saw him embrace it. He spent the first half of his time as a superhero hunting down a person that he had a personal vendetta against. Then in the second half the movie, he was fighting someone that was a threat to his friends and family. There never seemed to be any recognition that there was something larger than his own desires that was worth fighting for.

 

And that goes back to my mentioning of TASM similarly suffering from a poor story/plot.

The Uncle Ben thing might just be semantics, but like Talia in TDKR, it contributes to the assortment of flaws weighing down the film.

 

I wish I had a magical knee brace that could make me kick through walls. Why couldn't Bruce just kick Bane in the crotch or something? Was Christopher Nolan afraid that Bane would sound even goofier with a high-pitched voice the rest of the time?

Bane (in high-pitched squeal): Let the games begin!
Random Henchman: Haha Bane, you sound like Mickey Mou-
(Gets neck broken)

 

Valyn, two points:

1) No, Batman was not active after TDK. This is abundantly clear in the film. Please rewatch it.

2) Praising the Amazing Spiderman in The Amazing Spiderman is not praise for The Amazing Spiderman.

 

Not that overtly active, but he was still somewhat active for a while. Or else Alfred's line about the cave makes no sense.

 

Especially over the loss of Cabbage Patch Face. However Ender, like others have said, that does not mean he quit that night. Perhaps he did operate for a few more weeks or months with an ultra-low profile since, after all, Gordon and the GCPD were supposed to be hunting him. Blake's "last public sighting of the Batman" line doesn't necessarily mean he quit that same night. Perhaps after a few weeks the injuries - both physical and emotional - made him hang up the cowl. And the passing of the Dent Act simply sealed the deal: Gotham was at peace now, the legacy of its "true hero" had taken hold of the city, and the Batman was not needed.

 

I think the film makes it clear the Bat quit; anything to the contrary would be wishful thinking IMHO.

 

The film makes it clear that he didn't quit immediately after TDK. Christ.

 

And iirc you did praise TASM as being a great movie in that film's thread.

Though I may be confusing you with Spiderfan :/